Ilum 1.1: Dispelling the rumors

[Acyu]

In before SS or it didn't happen. The fact is, you cannot prove valor are not given in certain situations SS because everyone will just call you a liar. It should be incumbent on the trolls saying NPCs and turrets give valor to provide SS of such valor gain.

 

Rumor #1 - Killing base turrets give massive valor gains.

 

FALSE - This is simply not true. Killing turrets do not give valor, they only give legacy experience.

 

 

Rumor #2 - People are "exploiting" a bug and cheating

 

MAYBE - This depends on whether BioWare was lying about Ilum not "working as intended." BioWare said in their response that Ilum 1.1 were meant to have "safe zones" where the opposing faction would be automatically killed if enter. The safe zone was supposed to be the faction's base spawn points. If this was the case, then there was a bug, and people exploited it.

 

However, if BioWare was just making crap up to engage in damage control (which I believe this was the case) and a "safe zone" was NEVER even contemplated or created, then there is not "bug" and everything is "working as intended."

 

If there is no bug, then this was a design flaw, a product of a bunch of useless devs. Faction imbalance is no news to everyone, neither was Ilum lag (people said it on PTR forum). People were simply outnumbered and got spawn camped. Besides the outnumbering, spawn camping is also not something new and happens in ALL warzones, simply because the warzone debuff requires you to leave the spawn point.

 

 

Rumor #3 - People are going from 1-60, or EVEN 100 Valor Rank in a matter of "seconds," "minutes," "hours," or "days."

 

FALSE - As more and more Republics are now aware of the incredible imbalance and campage, and now know a work-around to leave Ilum, Imperials are gaining less and less valor because of the lessened amount of Republics and diminishing returns.

 

When 1.1 first went live and people that wanted to "get ahead" rushed to Ilum and the ownage began, people were getting about ~8-9K valor an hour. And this is with range AoE classes, because melee classes are gimped as far as valor gain goes.

 

Why melees get less valor goes to another rumor - which is that you need the "killing blow" to receive valor on the target. This is also FALSE. You get valor as long as you do at least 1 damage to the player, and that someone in your operation/group gets the "killing blow." This means if you just heal, or you're a melee that was not able to "tag" a player, or your operation does not kill that player, you do NOT get any valor.

 

Going back to valor rank gains. The amount of valor gained was a lot, there is no question about that. However, this would not allow anyone to instantly to get level 100 (especially when the hotfix'd tomorrow morning). Even without roll-backs (which I want), people who had spent the ENTIRE TIME farming Republics since 1.1 went live would not reach 60+ or 70+ unless they were already close to it. Someone who was 50V would be close to 60 or reach 60 by the end of the day before server shutdown if ALL STARS ALIGN. But much more realistically, maybe 50V - 55V. That's about how much valor that will be gained today.

 

So how much is this valor gain compared to warzones? If you are super awesome and win EVERY SINGLE TIME with a load of medals (8-10), you will be able to get ~7-8K valor an hour in warzones with good queue time. You might think "OMG that's not even that much less than Ilum farm and it gives credits and commendations!" No, because queue time for 50s are not instantaneous, and people do not usually win every game with 8-10 medals. Ilum 1.1 gives valor for AoE spamming that involves no wait, no skill, and no gear.

 

In the end, this is a lot of valor that is not deserved, and will just create more sorcerer bashing because they're the range AoE class that is getting max valor gain. Now you will have all the sorcerers running around with Battlemaster titles, furthering the illusion that sorcerers are OP while no one else is.

 

 

In the end, I do support a roll-back, and I will be here to laugh at the people to spent the past half a day spamming AoE at respawning Republics. These people do not deserve the valor ranks, so they should not get it. I don't care about your time spent, since the amount of work you did during that time is not proportionate to your gain.

 

That's like getting paid for spending 8 hours during work today on SW:TOR forums but still getting paid. If your boss finds out, he should be able to take away your pay that day (rollback) or fire you (ban).

 

 

WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU FOR 9000+

Edited January 19, 2012 by Acyu

[Macabrae]

In before SS or it didn't happen. The fact is, you cannot prove valor are not given in certain situations SS because everyone will just call you a liar. It should be incumbent on the trolls saying NPCs and turrets give valor to provide SS of such valor gain.

 

Rumor #1 - Killing base turrets give massive valor gains.

 

FALSE - This is simply not true. Killing turrets do not give valor, they only give legacy experience.

 

 

Rumor #2 - People are "exploiting" a bug and cheating

 

MAYBE - This depends on whether BioWare was lying about Ilum not "working as intended." BioWare said in their response that Ilum 1.1 were meant to have "safe zones" where the opposing faction would be automatically killed if enter. The safe zone was supposed to be the faction's base spawn points. If this was the case, then there was a bug, and people exploited it.

 

However, if BioWare was just making crap up to engage in damage control (which I believe this was the case) and a "safe zone" was NEVER even contemplated or created, then there is not "bug" and everything is "working as intended."

 

If there is no bug, then this was a design flaw, a product of a bunch of useless devs. Faction imbalance is no news to everyone, neither was Ilum lag (people said it on PTR forum). People were simply outnumbered and got spawn camped. Besides the outnumbering, spawn camping is also not something new and happens in ALL warzones, simply because the warzone debuff requires you to leave the spawn point.

 

 

Rumor #3 - People are going from 1-60, or EVEN 100 Valor Rank in a matter of "seconds," "minutes," "hours," or "days."

 

FALSE - As more and more Republics are now aware of the incredible imbalance and campage, and now know a work-around to leave Ilum, Imperials are gaining less and less valor because of the lessened amount of Republics and diminishing returns.

 

When 1.1 first went live and people that wanted to "get ahead" rushed to Ilum and the ownage began, people were getting about ~8-9K valor an hour. And this is with range AoE classes, because melee classes are gimped as far as valor gain goes.

 

Why melees get less valor goes to another rumor - which is that you need the "killing blow" to receive valor on the target. This is also FALSE. You get valor as long as you do at least 1 damage to the player, and that someone in your operation/group gets the "killing blow." This means if you just heal, or you're a melee that was not able to "tag" a player, or your operation does not kill that player, you do NOT get any valor.

 

Going back to valor rank gains. The amount of valor gained was a lot, there is no question about that. However, this would not allow anyone to instantly to get level 100 (especially when the hotfix'd tomorrow morning). Even without roll-backs (which I want), people who had spent the ENTIRE TIME farming Republics since 1.1 went live would not reach 60+ or 70+ unless they were already close to it. Someone who was 50V would be close to 60 or reach 60 by the end of the day before server shutdown. That's about how much valor that will be gained today.

 

So how much is this valor gain compared to warzones? If you are super awesome and win EVERY SINGLE TIME with a load of medals (8-10), you will be able to get ~7-8K valor an hour in warzones with good queue time. You might think "OMG that's not even that much less than Ilum farm and it gives credits and commendations!" No, because queue time for 50s are not instantaneous, and people do not usually win every game with 8-10 medals. Ilum 1.1 gives valor for AoE spamming that involves no wait, no skill, and no gear.

 

In the end, this is a lot of valor that is not deserved, and will just create more sorcerer bashing because they're the range AoE class that is getting max valor gain. Now you will have all the sorcerers running around with Battlemaster titles, furthering the illusion that sorcerers are OP while no one else is.

 

 

In the end, I do support a roll-back, and I will be here to laugh at the people to spent the past half a day spamming AoE at respawning Republics. These people do not deserve the valor ranks, so they should not get it. I don't care about your time spent, since the amount of work you did during that time is not proportionate to your gain.

 

That's like getting paid for spending 8 hours during work today on SW:TOR forums but still getting paid. If your boss finds out, he should be able to take away your pay that day (rollback) or fire you (ban).

 

 

WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU FOR 9000+

 

This. Not to mention they already stated they will be dealing with those people who participated in such even. What more do people want?

[Horridthehunter]

Something about valor and cannons.

 

+1

-1

 

I'll play on the safe side.

[Krytycal]

People will be more pissed if they do a roll back. Not everyone spent 6 hours base camping today. Some went there to do their daily and left. No different than the AFKing that's been going on for weeks now. Edited January 19, 2012 by Krytycal

[Acyu]

This. Not to mention they already stated they will be dealing with those people who participated in such even. What more do people want?

 

Forgive me for not placing too much faith in BioWare when they say something like "we will punish people who exploited the valor gain to the 'extreme'."

 

First, extreme exploitation is such a subjective term, giving BioWare unlimited discretion on who they want to ban, or whether they even want to investigate or ban at all.

 

The simple truth is that most people don't know that other people's valor rank was prior to the patch. And even if they had a massive rank gain after the patch, there is no way to "prove it" or even tell that it happened.

 

It's sad that a person on my server WZ botted from 11-50 and everyone on my server who did WZ reported him. He was FINALLY banned for A WEEK after he had achieved 50V from botting with almost a full set of champion gear. Now if THAT is not deserving of a permaban, instead of a slap on the wrist, I don't know what is.

 

So what type of "ban" will these "exploiters" be getting? 1 day? 3 days?

 

Perma ban? highly doubt it.

[IvamAkorahil]

bumped because its true and more people should listen to OP

[Merlict]

Nope, it's over. Tortanic is going down with all hands, and Bioware are setting fire to the lifeboats

[Beakertanks]

Great post. Hey any idea what this "Populatin Cap" on Ilum is suposed to look like. If it is faction based could be excellent for us Republic types.

[Doxxs]

All I am saying that is IF it is true that Imps got a ton of valor off this.....you are gonna be pretty humiliated if you lose to a republic player any time soon huh?

 

 

heh.

[Nightfalll]

If your naive enough to swallow what Bio is threatening to do to the sploiters, then I have a bridge to sell you...

 

 

WE WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MYSTERIOUS PLAYERS THAT WILL BE 'DEALT WITH'........

 

ITS SAID BY BIO TO PLACATE US.....Understand? Theyre trying to shut up the people who have valid concerns regarding this mechanic.

[Acyu]

All I am saying that is IF it is true that Imps got a ton of valor off this.....you are gonna be pretty humiliated if you lose to a republic player any time soon huh?

 

 

heh.

 

I wouldn't say that. You only get "valor" from this farm. Valor, unlike honors in WoW (omg forgive me for mentioning WoW), is useless besides giving valor ranks.

 

In fact, if you spent the entire day farming valor in Ilum, and you didn't pass 60V, you will actually be BEHIND the Republics who bounced and played WZ all day instead. You will receive ZERO advantage as far as gears go in that respect, since Republics can also complete the daily, it's just long and painful. You will actually be at a disadvantage against a Republic who farmed commendations (champion bags) all day.

 

 

Now if you did pass 60V, which would require you to be ~55-58V to begin with, you would probably have full, or almost full, champion gears. By completing the daily, you get ONE battlemaster bag. With the RNG gear token removed (and the RNG commendation added), you cannot "luck" a piece of battlemaster gear immediately.

 

So at most, you would be upgrading your champion ear/implants to battlemaster ear/implants. That does NOT give an incredible amount of advantage, at all. It is a very slight advantage considering how little stats difference the two tiers of gear are.

 

I actually would not expect the PvP aspect of the game, in general (as in for the majority of the PvPers) to change much, at all.

 

I want rollback for the sole reason that it was not earned, that is it. Having a "Battlemaster" Title doesn't automatically make the player good.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Acyu

[Sabbathius]

You need to add a few more rumors to the list. Given the number of people that took advantage, this "we are going to deal with them" is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

What do you THINK they're going to do? Huh? Ban a bunch of level 50s? Maybe as many as 30%? A day or two after introducing a 50-only bracket? Don't make me laugh.

 

Are they going to roll back valor on level 50s specifically? Which ones? Ones who set foot in Ilum that day? Quite a few just did the daily and left without really exploiting, and spent the rest of the day in valid WZs. Think BW is going to sift through ALL that data and waste ALL these manhours of work on that?! Heck no!

 

At worst, they will scapegoat a few people and that'll be the end of it.

[Acyu]

You need to add a few more rumors to the list. Given the number of people that took advantage, this "we are going to deal with them" is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

What do you THINK they're going to do? Huh? Ban a bunch of level 50s? Maybe as many as 30%? A day or two after introducing a 50-only bracket? Don't make me laugh.

 

Are they going to roll back valor on level 50s specifically? Which ones? Ones who set foot in Ilum that day? Quite a few just did the daily and left without really exploiting, and spent the rest of the day in valid WZs. Think BW is going to sift through ALL that data and waste ALL these manhours of work on that?! Heck no!

 

At worst, they will scapegoat a few people and that'll be the end of it.

 

I commented on that a few posts down

[Acyu]

Great post. Hey any idea what this "Population Cap" on Ilum is suposed to look like. If it is faction based could be excellent for us Republic types.

 

If there is a popular cap, then it is a large-scale instanced warzone, as oppose to open world pvp (though some already argue a PvP planet is already that).

 

This faction imbalance also occurred in WoW with Wintergrasp, and then a population cap (100 v. 100 when I stopped playing the game) was implemented. The "battle for Wintergrasp" happened every few set hours and the first 100 queued from each faction were the only ones that could join (as they quit, next in line joins). And then when the "battle" is over, the entire zone is opened to everyone and becomes an "open world" (connected to other zones) until the next "battle."

 

Ilum is already a separate zone because of SW:TOR's planet feature, as oppose to WoW's true open world, so a population cap is entirely feasible. Although the "PvP" part of Ilum would have to be separated from the dailies part.

[xShenanigansx]

bump, as all the QQers need to see this.

 

I was apart of a full ops group farming waves of republic at their medcenter. I have read multiple posts of people complaining about these people ( to which I was apart of ) making thousands of valor an hour, getting 20 + the occasional 150 valor per kill. This is all not true. If it truly happened to someone I want a screenshot.

 

I spent approx an hour and a half there, in which time Id say that I got near hundreds if not close to a thousand kills. I did not get 20+ valor every kill, in fact it seemed like I got a +20 valor kill count, or even a kill counting towards the daily/weekly every 30seconds to 1 minute. In the hour and a half that I was there I managed to get 4k valor.

 

-Rollbacks are not needed

-4k valor after an hour and a half is nothing to complain about

 

-Farming multiple waves of republic at the medcenter is, and they are fixing it. This was the one true problem.

 

 

Stop the QQ about rollbacks, if anyone managed to get the Thousands of Valor points and multiple valor ranks from this then prove it with a screenshot. But they do not exist.

[DrShazzam]

bump, as all the QQers need to see this.

 

I was apart of a full ops group farming waves of republic at their medcenter. I have read multiple posts of people complaining about these people ( to which I was apart of ) making thousands of valor an hour, getting 20 + the occasional 150 valor per kill. This is all not true. If it truly happened to someone I want a screenshot.

 

I spent approx an hour and a half there, in which time Id say that I got near hundreds if not close to a thousand kills. I did not get 20+ valor every kill, in fact it seemed like I got a +20 valor kill count, or even a kill counting towards the daily/weekly every 30seconds to 1 minute. In the hour and a half that I was there I managed to get 4k valor.

 

-Rollbacks are not needed

-4k valor after an hour and a half is nothing to complain about

 

-Farming multiple waves of republic at the medcenter is, and they are fixing it. This was the one true problem.

 

 

Stop the QQ about rollbacks, if anyone managed to get the Thousands of Valor points and multiple valor ranks from this then prove it with a screenshot. But they do not exist.

 

 

Here's your screenshot. http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4026/screenshot2012011823380.jpg

 

1 minute, without the valor buff for controlling Ilium, because I'm Republic and that will never happen.

[Sheneria]

now i trolled about this earlier, but its just a rumour as far as i know.

 

you can however get lots of valor (in my chase over 4k valor in 20 mins and i wasn't even trying) on republic side as a sage.

 

find a organized ops grp and then start following it, use aoe attacks and hard hitting dmg spells on low hp player.

 

thanks to the neverneding stream of imperials its easy to get more and more valor points if you really try hard.

 

which is however useless to me since i am bm since last week.~

Edited January 19, 2012 by Sheneria

[RetardoMontalban]

I have a republic guildie in Ilum right now getting 9k in less than an hour. She's a melee character and not getting a huge bonus like Empire is.

[Acyu]

I have a republic guildie in Ilum right now getting 9k in less than an hour. She's a melee character and not getting a huge bonus like Empire is.

 

I strongly encourage the republic to fight back to farm valor as well.

 

There are a lot more imperials to kill than there are republics to kill. Even though you do not have the same bonus, you will likely yield more valor per hour because of the endless stream of imperials who read about free valor and showed up in scattered groups. They will also not have diminishing returns on the valor on them.

 

By now, all the "hardcore" imperials are probably getting pretty tired since they've been farming all day.

 

FIGHT BACK!!

 

 

Of course do realize if this is happening, a rollback option would be the improbable. Not that BioWare ever even contemplated a rollback, period.

[Macabrae]

Nope, it's over. Tortanic is going down with all hands, and Bioware are setting fire to the lifeboats

 

Not even close. I realize trolls as yourself wants the negativity and feed off it but I can tell you first hand everyone on my server I have talked to along with all my guild mates (26 of them) are going to re-sub and love the game. Sorry to spoil your fun.

[Dashall]

I just had a ton of fun on Ilum. 8 or so of us vrs 16-20 Imps. Rocking. I know there are issues on some servers but that situation I was in was perfect. If the devs can tweak it to make that sort of relative balance happen semi regularly I am happy.

[kiroshei]

Honestly all the people quitting or upset were people quitting over every little thing a month ago and in beta. Its no surprise. They just found something new to whine about. Noone got huge valor gains today except some ranged classes may have made a couple thousand extra valor over a melee class.

 

This game is about PVE

 

NOT PVP

 

I dont know what game you were following for years but if you thought pvp was a huge thing in here you were wrong. Personally i just miss the 2.5k heal & 5k heal medkit medals lol.

 

I cant wait for the sub day to renew so all of them are gone or just look really really hilarious when they keep posting after quitting 10 times.

 

So total valor earned in a full ops group pvping the repub base entrance for 2 hours....5 thousand. I can make that in less time doing WZ's. Grats trolls. You failed again and youre still gone shortly coming

[RetardoMontalban]

Honestly all the people quitting or upset were people quitting over every little thing a month ago and in beta. Its no surprise. They just found something new to whine about. Noone got huge valor gains today except some ranged classes may have made a couple thousand extra valor over a melee class.

 

So total valor earned in a full ops group pvping the repub base entrance for 2 hours....5 thousand. I can make that in less time doing WZ's. Grats trolls. You failed again and youre still gone shortly coming

 

My republic guildmate just got 13k in an hour there without the huge bonus empire is getting per kill.

[Chelsai]

I don't know-- if there was no Valor exploit like they say. Then WHY would they "deal" with any characters that particpated in the new 1.1 Illum crud?

 

If it wasn't valor exploiting... then please do clarify for me, what exactly are they going to be supposedly punished for? Farming Republics that came into the zone and stayed to get stuck in thier deathtrap?

[Macabrae]

I don't know-- if there was no Valor exploit like they say. Then WHY would they "deal" with any characters that particpated in the new 1.1 Illum crud?

 

If it wasn't valor exploiting... then please do clarify for me, what exactly are they going to be supposedly punished for? Farming Republics that came into the zone and stayed to get stuck in thier deathtrap?

 

 

I am sure being in the opposing factions base farming people over and over griefing the crap out of people is probably "Not working as intended" even if they were getting little to no honor for doing such. Griefing in a game like what was going on is against EULA.