so what have we learned?

[Almghty_gir]

so what have we learned from this?

 

pvp stats are a bad idea.

 

tying pvp stats into a vertical progression is a worse idea.

 

having vertical progression based on a two faction system where there WILL ALWAYS BE POPULATION IMBALANCE IS A TERRIBLE IDEA.

 

i thought you guys would have learned this from WAR? or did you decide, in your arrogance that you could do a better job of managing the same problems? did you think that regardless of all the evidence against what you tried to achieve, that you could simply get away with making the same mistakes and saying "it's okay, it'll work this time"?

 

 

 

rant over.

 

and now to finding solutions:

1. remove expertise as of right now. bring all servers down for one hour, remove it from the game until you can find a better use for it.
   
2. whilst the servers are down, rollback all valor on all servers gained after 2am (when the servers went down for maintenance).
   
3. remove valor from everything except player kills.
   
4. add a scaling valor bonus for underdog factions, it should be additive, and cap at 400% bonus for being outnumbered by 4:1 or greater, and start at 25% bonus for being outnumbered by 1.25:1, this should apply to ilum only.
   
5. on pvp servers, remove the ability to roll characters on both factions. if a player has characters on both factions already they must delete one faction before being allowed to log into the game.
   
6. add a +100% valor bonus (additive) to the underdog faction on any server.
   

 

this should give underdog players a sufficient incentive (valor wise) to stay in the fight and keep playing, with a total of 900% valor bonus if they are:

• out numbered on their server
  
• out numbered by 4:1 or greater in ilum
  
• control all of the ilum objectives
  

 

hopefully this won't get lost in the firestorm that is this thread...

[Localhost]

so what have we learned from this?

 

pvp stats are a bad idea.

 

tying pvp stats into a vertical progression is a worse idea.

 

having vertical progression based on a two faction system where there WILL ALWAYS BE POPULATION IMBALANCE IS A TERRIBLE IDEA.

 

i thought you guys would have learned this from WAR? or did you decide, in your arrogance that you could do a better job of managing the same problems? did you think that regardless of all the evidence against what you tried to achieve, that you could simply get away with making the same mistakes and saying "it's okay, it'll work this time"?

 

 

 

rant over.

 

and now to finding solutions:

1. remove expertise as of right now. bring all servers down for one hour, remove it from the game until you can find a better use for it.
   
2. whilst the servers are down, rollback all valor on all servers gained after 2am (when the servers went down for maintenance).
   
3. remove valor from everything except player kills.
   
4. add a scaling valor bonus for underdog factions, it should be additive, and cap at 400% bonus for being outnumbered by 4:1 or greater, and start at 25% bonus for being outnumbered by 1.25:1, this should apply to ilum only.
   
5. on pvp servers, remove the ability to roll characters on both factions. if a player has characters on both factions already they must delete one faction before being allowed to log into the game.
   
6. add a +100% valor bonus (additive) to the underdog faction on any server.
   

 

this should give underdog players a sufficient incentive (valor wise) to stay in the fight and keep playing, with a total of 900% valor bonus if they are:

• out numbered on their server
  
• out numbered by 4:1 or greater in ilum
  
• control all of the ilum objectives
  

 

hopefully this won't get lost in the firestorm that is this thread...

 

 

They haven't learned a damn thing!

 

30 years of MMO history. 15 years of mainstream commercial MMO development and success and failures and every company makes the same damn mistakes over and over. Some companies like BIOWARE hire people from other companies with MMO history and make the same damn mistakes the other company did with people from that company there to stop them!

 

It's laughable, It's some kind of cosmic joke.

[Sabbathius]

It's laughable, It's some kind of cosmic joke.

 

Dude, you don't get it. THE JOKE IS ON US! lol

 

I mean, here we are, 15 years later, STILL PAYING to watch yet another company repeat yet the same mistakes.

[Captain_Cowkill]

It's a freaking joke indeed.

[Almghty_gir]

i just don't understand how the same mistakes can be made by the parent company of Mythic... the guys who made WAR, which made THE SAME MISTAKES.

[darkdoh]

u are right we buy we play we ***** on the fourms yes they have exp in mmos but there egos are bigger than and game they can put out i love mmos here is an idea 50 to 60 percent of a mmo game like or love pvp basics make brackets to lev up with pvp gear to strive for in each bracket tw0 40 percent of the mmo players will want to raid or run hard modes make sure these are not bugged three make a solid crafting system that will let people make a lower than standard pvp gear i wish u hired me bioware u spent 200 mil on story that 80 percent of any player base dosent care about and then u pull this crap no cancal subscribtion so get a month out of people it was pulled in warhammer and omg u have people from warhammer working for u thats just a dirty trick then u release a patch on ilum and people take advantge of it of coarse they are if u people are not smart enough this just goes to show u nothing about the people that play these games u should of hired me and i would have wrote this on a chalk board for u would have saved a few mil and have a way and i mean way happer player base this is no ones fault but ur own u spent 200 mil and couldnt get the basics right u are a bunch of clowns any mmo comunity dosent like to be cheated u will learn the 3 time around

[Shivus]

so what have we learned from this?

 

pvp stats are a bad idea.

 

tying pvp stats into a vertical progression is a worse idea.

 

having vertical progression based on a two faction system where there WILL ALWAYS BE POPULATION IMBALANCE IS A TERRIBLE IDEA.

 

i thought you guys would have learned this from WAR? or did you decide, in your arrogance that you could do a better job of managing the same problems? did you think that regardless of all the evidence against what you tried to achieve, that you could simply get away with making the same mistakes and saying "it's okay, it'll work this time"?

 

 

 

rant over.

 

and now to finding solutions:

1. remove expertise as of right now. bring all servers down for one hour, remove it from the game until you can find a better use for it.
   
2. whilst the servers are down, rollback all valor on all servers gained after 2am (when the servers went down for maintenance).
   
3. remove valor from everything except player kills.
   
4. add a scaling valor bonus for underdog factions, it should be additive, and cap at 400% bonus for being outnumbered by 4:1 or greater, and start at 25% bonus for being outnumbered by 1.25:1, this should apply to ilum only.
   
5. on pvp servers, remove the ability to roll characters on both factions. if a player has characters on both factions already they must delete one faction before being allowed to log into the game.
   
6. add a +100% valor bonus (additive) to the underdog faction on any server.
   

 

this should give underdog players a sufficient incentive (valor wise) to stay in the fight and keep playing, with a total of 900% valor bonus if they are:

• out numbered on their server
  
• out numbered by 4:1 or greater in ilum
  
• control all of the ilum objectives
  

 

hopefully this won't get lost in the firestorm that is this thread...

 

I agree except there also needs to be an end result for massive valor values. Level dictates abilities, stats and equippable gear. Social level grants the ability to purchace special items. Valor... 60 allows battlemaster gear, beyond that there's a whopping pit of nothing. With 900% bonus to valor gain the underdogs will hit 60, then 100+ fairly quickly in the scope of a month or two.

[Malstrades]

so what have we learned from this?

 

pvp stats are a bad idea.

 

tying pvp stats into a vertical progression is a worse idea.

 

having vertical progression based on a two faction system where there WILL ALWAYS BE POPULATION IMBALANCE IS A TERRIBLE IDEA.

 

i thought you guys would have learned this from WAR? or did you decide, in your arrogance that you could do a better job of managing the same problems? did you think that regardless of all the evidence against what you tried to achieve, that you could simply get away with making the same mistakes and saying "it's okay, it'll work this time"?

 

 

 

rant over.

 

and now to finding solutions:

1. remove expertise as of right now. bring all servers down for one hour, remove it from the game until you can find a better use for it.
   
2. whilst the servers are down, rollback all valor on all servers gained after 2am (when the servers went down for maintenance).
   
3. remove valor from everything except player kills.
   
4. add a scaling valor bonus for underdog factions, it should be additive, and cap at 400% bonus for being outnumbered by 4:1 or greater, and start at 25% bonus for being outnumbered by 1.25:1, this should apply to ilum only.
   
5. on pvp servers, remove the ability to roll characters on both factions. if a player has characters on both factions already they must delete one faction before being allowed to log into the game.
   
6. add a +100% valor bonus (additive) to the underdog faction on any server.
   

 

this should give underdog players a sufficient incentive (valor wise) to stay in the fight and keep playing, with a total of 900% valor bonus if they are:

• out numbered on their server
  
• out numbered by 4:1 or greater in ilum
  
• control all of the ilum objectives
  

 

hopefully this won't get lost in the firestorm that is this thread...

 

/signed

[Rehn_Freemark]

 

this should give underdog players a sufficient incentive (valor wise) to stay in the fight and keep playing, with a total of 900% valor bonus if they are:

• out numbered on their server
  
• out numbered by 4:1 or greater in ilum
  
• control all of the ilum objectives
  

 

I really find it so obvious, but with Ilum the way it is now it doesn't matter if you have a 900& or 9000000% valor bonus, when you are outnumbered 4:1 or even 3:1 you won't get any real kills and your valor bonus wont mean squat.

Ilum has to go, become a regular warzone or just a "free for all area" without any rewards except maybe valor (with a nerf to the % you get for controlling points) because right now it's pointless, and worst of all it's just not fixable. Pvp areas like that have never, and never will work in a 2 faction game where one faction outnumbers the other greatly.

The "Wintergrasp Tenacity" solution (just give the underdog faction some kind of big boost) is, really, not a solution and never has been, it's just a way to say "we can't fix it without actually taking the area out of the game, so just pretend it works and deal with it".

[Aowar]

What I have learned is that it is a good thing that the PvE community has no say in PvP.

[ReFlexionn]

OP probably got faceroll hard by a pvp gear player vs his green grears

[Rehn_Freemark]

OP probably got faceroll hard by a pvp gear player vs his green grears

 

Agreed. I can partly understand him and people like him. I got it easy getting champ gear with the "old" broken Ilum, warzone weekly+warzone daily+ ilum daily + ilum weekly and I got like 5 champion pieces the next day I hit 50.

It's harder for the fresh 50s because they have to compete with fully geared ppl, and without at least 4-5 champion pieces on your toon you are like a sheep in a den of lions... and they basically have to say goodbye to Ilum weeklies and dailies which were oh so useful before 1.1. Republic has it harder but I'm not gonna start an argument here, it's not too fast for fresh 50s in the empire either.

 

Tbh the problem isn't the gear, and it certainly isn't the expertise stat, it's just that you don't really have any kind of accessible level 50 entry level pvp gear and without it you get squashed in a matter of second in any warzone. Fix Ilum, or at least change the dailiies and weeklies so that you can get more champion bags more easily, and you solve hte problem.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Rehn_Freemark