Bracket Rage... only yourself to blame

[halltw]

The bolster mechanic works fantastic 1-49. Bolster wasn't working with 50s. The new Bracket was needed.

 

I for one will roll up many many republic alts so that I can:

 

(1) get instant queue pops

(2) rarely get a huttball

(3) compete in some very competitive pvp where gear is not affecting outcomes

 

1-49 bolstered bgs will be more balanced than the 50 bracket where a gear race will always exist.

 

If you don't like your queue times or you don't like huttball... you are probably empire. This is an imbalance issue and I suspect will work itself out naturally. Those that get too frustrated will reroll rebulic getting fast bg pops and little huttball. This will eventually help balance out the servers. Those that don't will cry and complain, but the choice is yours.

 

BTW, new system is working great... bgs are popping under 10 seconds and haven't seen a huttball all morning. I may never get to 50

[Sabbathius]

Said it before, and I'll say it again - EXPERTISE HAS GOT TO GO!!

 

I'm sorry, but the idea of a PvP stat was idiotic when it was introduced in other games (especially WoW). It broke a ton of stuff back then, it breaks a lot of stuff now.

 

If Expertise was removed, we wouldn't need the bracket at all.

 

EDIT: And another thing, now people who are JUST hitting 50 (which is about 80% of the population, as far as I can tell based on what I see in my guild) are being thrown into WZs with decked out level 50s. It's not quite as horrible as fighting a geared 50 when you're 20, but it's still bad enough. This "fix" ultimately fixed nothing.

 

It just created another problem. One...drumroll please...once again IDENTICAL to the one people experience in WoW. Good job not learning a thing from watching Blizzard repeatedly blow its toes off with a shotgun, Bioware! Now you're doing it, and it's spectacular.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Sabbathius

[Urothefox]

I so hate pvp stats...

[hieroo]

The bolster mechanic works fantastic 1-49. Bolster wasn't working with 50s. The new Bracket was needed.

 

I for one will roll up many many republic alts so that I can:

 

(1) get instant queue pops

(2) rarely get a huttball

(3) compete in some very competitive pvp where gear is not affecting outcomes

 

1-49 bolstered bgs will be more balanced than the 50 bracket where a gear race will always exist.

 

If you don't like your queue times or you don't like huttball... you are probably empire. This is an imbalance issue and I suspect will work itself out naturally. Those that get too frustrated will reroll rebulic getting fast bg pops and little huttball. This will eventually help balance out the servers. Those that don't will cry and complain, but the choice is yours.

 

BTW, new system is working great... bgs are popping under 10 seconds and haven't seen a huttball all morning. I may never get to 50

 

Alts are the lame, for people who cant endgame.

[Sabbathius]

Alts are the lame, for people who cant endgame.

 

I beg to differ. Last night I didn't feel like playing my main. So I fired up one of the alts, and with a full rest bonus took a nice chunk out of Taris and made a level and a half without even trying in record time.

 

Alts are fantastic, especially when you rotate them so that you're never playing without a rest bonus. Leveling becomes even more of a breeze.

[Kryptorchid]

Said it before, and I'll say it again - EXPERTISE HAS GOT TO GO!!

 

I'm sorry, but the idea of a PvP stat was idiotic when it was introduced in other games (especially WoW). It broke a ton of stuff back then, it breaks a lot of stuff now.

 

If Expertise was removed, we wouldn't need the bracket at all.

 

EDIT: And another thing, now people who are JUST hitting 50 (which is about 80% of the population, as far as I can tell based on what I see in my guild) are being thrown into WZs with decked out level 50s. It's not quite as horrible as fighting a geared 50 when you're 20, but it's still bad enough. This "fix" ultimately fixed nothing.

 

It just created another problem. One...drumroll please...once again IDENTICAL to the one people experience in WoW. Good job not learning a thing from watching Blizzard repeatedly blow its toes off with a shotgun, Bioware! Now you're doing it, and it's spectacular.

 

This! Mother****ing this.

[Scoobings]

Said it before, and I'll say it again - EXPERTISE HAS GOT TO GO!!

 

I'm sorry, but the idea of a PvP stat was idiotic when it was introduced in other games (especially WoW). It broke a ton of stuff back then, it breaks a lot of stuff now.

 

If Expertise was removed, we wouldn't need the bracket at all.

 

EDIT: And another thing, now people who are JUST hitting 50 (which is about 80% of the population, as far as I can tell based on what I see in my guild) are being thrown into WZs with decked out level 50s. It's not quite as horrible as fighting a geared 50 when you're 20, but it's still bad enough. This "fix" ultimately fixed nothing.

 

It just created another problem. One...drumroll please...once again IDENTICAL to the one people experience in WoW. Good job not learning a thing from watching Blizzard repeatedly blow its toes off with a shotgun, Bioware! Now you're doing it, and it's spectacular.

 

Someone didn't play PVP in wow before resilience, or has a really short term memory. Or maybe you played a mage or rogue? 2 Shots in MMOs aren't normal and that's why there is a PVP stat.

[halltw]

Alts are the lame, for people who cant endgame.

 

Perhaps. Could care less about endgame though. I enjoy getting on for a little bit and playing in some fairly balanced pvp.

 

At this point the game is absolutely perfect for me. I have a couple of republic toons between 18-36. I get instant BG pops. Rarely get huttball. The bolstered mechanic is fantastic, I don't feel ultra gimped with my 25 toon fighting a 48 toon.

 

Call me lame, but I have zero reason to ding 50... loving it!

[ZenBones]

EDIT: And another thing, now people who are JUST hitting 50 (which is about 80% of the population, as far as I can tell based on what I see in my guild) are being thrown into WZs with decked out level 50s. It's not quite as horrible as fighting a geared 50 when you're 20, but it's still bad enough. This "fix" ultimately fixed nothing.

 

That's the boat I'm in. I just hit 50 and am not geared up. It's going to be brutal.

[Kryptorchid]

Someone didn't play PVP in wow before resilience, or has a really short term memory. Or maybe you played a mage or rogue? 2 Shots in MMOs aren't normal and that's why there is a PVP stat.

 

Someone's first MMO must have been WOW. 2 shots in MMOs never existed in the past when gear wasn't the sole progression model. UO, DAOC, and AC are games that had amazing PvP and no PvP stat.

 

So again, I am sorry your only experience in this genre is WoW and you think having a PvP stat is dogma, because you, along with the BioWare development team, are just some of WoW's sheeple that have ruined every game since it.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Kryptorchid

[Scoobings]

Someone's first MMO must have been WOW. 2 shots in MMOs never existed in the past when gear wasn't the sole progression model. UO, DAOC, and AC are games that had amazing PvP and no PvP stat.

 

So again, I am sorry your only experience in this genre is WoW and you think having a PvP stat is dogma, because you are just another one of WoW's sheeple.

 

I've played plenty of MMOs, but I'm totally willing to admit I don't go that far back and never played UO, AC, or DAOC (my friend played DAOC but I never got into it). But as long as there's gear there is going to be gear disparity.

 

Your point might be totally valid if gear wasn't the only progression model, but as it stands right now it is. As long as it is, a PVP stat is neccesary. So instead of removing the PVP stat, which would do irreperable damage to the game, maybe you should be calling for other forms of progression and then we can move on to elimination of the PVP stat.

[Aowar]

Said it before, and I'll say it again - EXPERTISE HAS GOT TO GO!!

 

I'm sorry, but the idea of a PvP stat was idiotic when it was introduced in other games (especially WoW). It broke a ton of stuff back then, it breaks a lot of stuff now.

 

If Expertise was removed, we wouldn't need the bracket at all.

 

EDIT: And another thing, now people who are JUST hitting 50 (which is about 80% of the population, as far as I can tell based on what I see in my guild) are being thrown into WZs with decked out level 50s. It's not quite as horrible as fighting a geared 50 when you're 20, but it's still bad enough. This "fix" ultimately fixed nothing.

 

It just created another problem. One...drumroll please...once again IDENTICAL to the one people experience in WoW. Good job not learning a thing from watching Blizzard repeatedly blow its toes off with a shotgun, Bioware! Now you're doing it, and it's spectacular.

 

 

 

 

You were wrong before and you are wrong again. People who pvp a lot should not be punished just because you don't have the gear yet. Are you also going to advocate people being able to raid with greens?

[Wizrar]

Someone didn't play PVP in wow before resilience, or has a really short term memory. Or maybe you played a mage or rogue? 2 Shots in MMOs aren't normal and that's why there is a PVP stat.

 

You do realize two people with equal expertise will do NORMAL damage on each other? The only thing expertise does is give people with more gear a HUGE advantage on undergeared players. An advantage that can practically ignore skill levels.

[Aghar]

Someone's first MMO must have been WOW. 2 shots in MMOs never existed in the past when gear wasn't the sole progression model. UO, DAOC, and AC are games that had amazing PvP and no PvP stat.

 

So again, I am sorry your only experience in this genre is WoW and you think having a PvP stat is dogma, because you, along with the BioWare development team, are just some of WoW's sheeple that have ruined every game since it.

 

This, pvp stats were added because people who only pvp'd complained that raiders were comming in and stomping them into a ground. Though this was not a bad thing, it made people who wanted to pvp work together with raiders if they wanted the best gear. Now people can just pvp all day, never even have to touch a raid or worktogether with anyone, and still get all the good stuff. Last I checked this is a MMO not a single player game.

[Scoobings]

You do realize two people with equal expertise will do NORMAL damage on each other? The only thing expertise does is give people with more gear a HUGE advantage on undergeared players. An advantage that can practically ignore skill levels.

 

They will do normal damage that's correct...

 

The difference in that scenario is one doesn't die before the other has a chance to react and that's why the pvp stat was introduced. At end game, before a PVP stat when 2 highly geared players met one would kill the other before there was much opportunity to react.

 

With the PVP stat, geared players still have an advantage over not geared players but when 2 geared players face off you have a legitimate, decent length fight.

[Dymensia]

Said it before, and I'll say it again - EXPERTISE HAS GOT TO GO!!

 

I'm sorry, but the idea of a PvP stat was idiotic when it was introduced in other games (especially WoW). It broke a ton of stuff back then, it breaks a lot of stuff now.

 

If Expertise was removed, we wouldn't need the bracket at all.

 

People would find any way, while sitting around at max level in a game with gear scaling beyond fresh level 50 characters, to dramatically outstat people who's only stats come from a static system intended to bolster them to fresh level 50 characters. You know... by doing pretty much anything at max level...

 

There are two ways to fix issues. One is to create a 50's backet. The other would have been to bracket all players out based on successes/loses and try to group people with similar rankings (and pit them against other teams with similar rankings).

[Scoobings]

This, pvp stats were added because people who only pvp'd complained that raiders were comming in and stomping them into a ground. Though this was not a bad thing, it made people who wanted to pvp work together with raiders if they wanted the best gear. Now people can just pvp all day, never even have to touch a raid or worktogether with anyone, and still get all the good stuff. Last I checked this is a MMO not a single player game.

 

So why are raiders more deserving of an advantage in PVP than people who PVP?

[Tamanous]

Someone didn't play PVP in wow before resilience, or has a really short term memory. Or maybe you played a mage or rogue? 2 Shots in MMOs aren't normal and that's why there is a PVP stat.

 

The point is that the pvp stats are BOUND TO GEAR!

 

That is the issue.

 

When entering pvp every single player should automatically obtain a flat pvp hidden stat to make it fair to all players. This avoids the pve scaling damages and allows all players to complete.

 

Players with better gear already have the advantage of ... having better gear! The current mechanic allows additional bonuses ONLY to the more powerful. The logic is ludicrous.

[Sabbathius]

You were wrong before and you are wrong again. People who pvp a lot should not be punished just because you don't have the gear yet. Are you also going to advocate people being able to raid with greens?

 

Who said anything about punished?

 

I'd explain, but it probably won't do any good. Enjoy watching Bioware repeat all the same mistakes Blizzard made with their Resilience, in chronological order. I've seen it once, I'm not itching to see a remake. Well, maybe if they hired George Clooney for the remake...

[Scoobings]

The point is that the pvp stats are BOUND TO GEAR!

 

That is the issue.

 

When entering pvp every single player should automatically obtain a flat pvp hidden stat to make it fair to all players. This avoids the pve scaling damages and allows all players to complete.

 

Players with better gear already have the advantage of ... having better gear! The current mechanic allows additional bonuses ONLY to the more powerful. The logic is ludicrous.

 

No, because then people would take PVE damage gear into WZs and have the advantage because their armor increases their damage more than PVP gear.

 

If you make PVP gear match PVE gear, then you have PVErs whining because you can gear out for raids without ever setting foot in a raid.

 

The only thing that, in my opinion, BW did wrong was to make expertise increase your damage to other players.

 

*edit*

Oh and the increase in healing.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Scoobings

[Kryptorchid]

So why are raiders more deserving of an advantage in PVP than people who PVP?

 

Stop being *********** dense. They aren't "deserving of an advantage."

 

BioWare, Blizzard, Funcom, and any other developer that has made an MMO similar to those since WoW are all *********** dense *******s and don't understand that stat-progression, whether it is via gear, alternative-advancement, talents, whatever, is what causes Raiders to ROFL stomp PvPers with raid gear, and causes PvP-geared people to ROFL stomp fresh players.

 

REMOVE STAT PROGRESSION AS YOUR PROGRESSION MODEL FOR ****'S SAKE.

 

That would fix ALL itemization issues between PvP and PvE.

[Adythiel]

What I wouldn't give for a vanilla DAoC setup pre-Spellcrafting and realm rank abilities. It didn't matter if you had a 98 quality weapon or 100 quality. Every weapon had the same base DPS, it was more about your ability to work as a team than it was about what you wore.

 

Taking and defending keeps was both fun and worthwhile. I don't think we'll ever see it again though.

[Scoobings]

Who said anything about punished?

 

I'd explain, but it probably won't do any good. Enjoy watching Bioware repeat all the same mistakes Blizzard made with their Resilience, in chronological order. I've seen it once, I'm not itching to see a remake. Well, maybe if they hired George Clooney for the remake...

 

George Clooney IS dreamy

[Sabbathius]

People would find any way, while sitting around at max level in a game with gear scaling beyond fresh level 50 characters, to dramatically outstat people who's only stats come from a static system intended to bolster them to fresh level 50 characters. You know... by doing pretty much anything at max level...

 

Bottom line is - what do you want?

 

Do you want COMPETITIVE and FAIR and FUN PvP? Or do you want to steamroll over someone because you spent 138 hours grinding gear and they haven't yet? That's the main question.

 

Currently, it is overwhelmingly the latter. In order of importance, things are:

 

Gear -> Class -> Skill

 

What I want to see happening is,

 

Skill -> Class, and Gear being not a factor at all.

 

And I can't help but wonder about the people who object to this. Why, exactly? Maybe because without an overwhelming gear advantage you know deep down they're just scrubs?

[Scoobings]

Stop being *********** dense. They aren't "deserving of an advantage."

 

BioWare, Blizzard, Funcom, and any other developer that has made an MMO similar to those since WoW are all *********** dense *******s and don't understand that stat-progression, whether it is via gear, alternative-advancement, talents, whatever, is what causes Raiders to ROFL stomp PvPers with raid gear, and causes PvP-geared people to ROFL stomp fresh players.

 

REMOVE STAT PROGRESSION AS YOUR PROGRESSION MODEL FOR ****'S SAKE.

 

That would fix ALL itemization issues between PvP and PvE.

 

First of all, calm down you're acting like a child. I can barely read your point through all the *s.

 

Secondly, that's great in a game where Stats aren't the main form of progression but they are. I could argue all I want for them to remove raids from the game because I want PVE progression to be based on how many gumdrops I can fit in my mouth but at the end of the day PVE is based on raids.

 

If you think the game should have a new kind of progression, that's a COMPLETELY different thread and is irrelevent to this one because this game is what it is. In the frame work of this game, with stat progression, a PVP stat is neccesary.