NewLogic Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Hey all, I'm currently a lvl 16 powertech but I'm a noob at tanking. I had a few questions if you guys could help me out: 1. Whenever I'm attacking a mob and generating threat, does it generate threat for only the mob I'm attacking or does it generate threat for all the current mobs that are attacking us? 2. What's the best way to hold aggro of a group of mobs? Lots of AOE's? 3. When mobs are spread too far apart for my AOE's to reach them all, should I be switching targets all over the place to get the aggro of the mobs that I can see are attacking groupmates? 4. Can you recommend a somewhat sustainable rotation while I wait for the DPS to kill everything? I saw a few roto's that had vent heat in them multiple times but I don't see how that's possible because of the super long cooldown (2 min) Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calexus Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) I have my own way - others would tell you to start your attacks with AOE...dont IMO. Survey the area for your weak targets and if you have a few that are far apart. Run in, grapple the furthest stray into a position where you can get a good AOE at close range for all the targets OR if they are melee targets - open up with a Sonic missle and move into another group (remember, group NOT mob lol) - once the melee targets give chase and get close fire off the AOE. As a backup I keep the explosive dart and missle blast as a double bounce attack and it works fantastic and always gives my team mates a giggle when i use it effectively. First fire the explosive dart and let the target panic, fire the missle blast knocking him back into his team mates, the second explosion from explosive dart will finish them or give your team mates room enough to pick them off as they are knocked down. Not going to sit here and tell you all my combinations cause i need a few secrets, but those are the obvious ones. Always demand first blood when your teaming up with strangers - this ensures no Leeroy antics and you get to decide the mobs. Ive never understood everyones obsession with keeping heat low - IMO burn that **** out! If your keeping it low then your rotations arent aggressive enough, which can mean you'll lose aggro if any DPS worth is salt is pounding the enemy. Edited January 18, 2012 by Calexus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menetou Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 re. New Logic 1. Whenever I'm attacking a mob and generating threat, does it generate threat for only the mob I'm attacking or does it generate threat for all the current mobs that are attacking us? My impression is that you only generate threat on the mobs you actively attack (or taunt using Neural Dart etc.). For example, if you attack a group, dealing damage to them, but do not deal damage to one linked to the group but that is off to the side... that mob will start attacking you (responding to the attack) but will nearly immediately attack someone else (companion, group member) if you do not attack (or taunt) it. 2. What's the best way to hold aggro of a group of mobs? Lots of AOE's? That really depends on the situations. Calexus (Cali Rodas) gave you a great answer for spread out groups. Of course, if they are all grouped in the area hit by Death from Above, then that's a great starter. So, it will be your choice as to adapt to the situations: open with AoE, hit them and gather them together and then use some AoE... Remember to see which mobs do what: the melee ones will rush you, so, your main goal is to gather the ranged ones around you (since the melees will come on their own) using Grapple, or taunt, or pure damage, or bouncing them around with explosions... 3. When mobs are spread too far apart for my AOE's to reach them all, should I be switching targets all over the place to get the aggro of the mobs that I can see are attacking groupmates? Again, I feel that depends on the situation. If it is a boss (or just a powerful mob - elite, champion etc.) surrounded by weaker ones, then the most important IMO is to keep aggro' on the big guy, while the small fry is wiped out. If there are several big ones, then it is probably more important to keep aggro' on all (I'd say you'll rarely have more than 3 important ones). Remember that in general it is best to wipe out the weaker mobs first and work your way up the food chain, and (often) to kill the healers first. So, it is nice (sometimes important) for you to mark the mobs, so people know which will be CCed, which must be killed first etc.. 4. Can you recommend a somewhat sustainable rotation while I wait for the DPS to kill everything? I saw a few roto's that had vent heat in them multiple times but I don't see how that's possible because of the super long cooldown (2 min) As Cali Rodas said-- "Ive never understood everyones obsession with keeping heat low - IMO burn that **** out! If your keeping it low then your rotations arent aggressive enough, which can mean you'll lose aggro if any DPS worth is salt is pounding the enemy." --I also think you should not aim to keep your heat low at all costs. In this game the heal/regen (ammo, force, heat etc.) is very swift and easy and with no cooldown, so, after any fight, you'll be at 0 heat in a few secs for the next one... meaning you can (should?) aim to end at high heat and let fly towards the end of a fight. But, again, IMO it depends on situations: if you want to aggro' a bunch of mobs and be sure they are on you, then let loose and damage like mad in the beginning, and overheat, and then let it go down... if you feel it'll be a long fight then you can pace yourself... Anyhow, it's not rocket science (it's rocket PUNCH!) and you'll easily get a feel for the various situations and how to react to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DredlyLB Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Anyone have suggestions for how to hold boss aggro? I know Neural dart and Sonic will get the aggro for a few seconds but then they typically turn back to the super squish DPS Sith and I'm stuck trying to get the aggro back - also I always lead off with my Death from Above when heading into battle and hit as many as I can and then use sonic/dart to pull anything off my healer... typically I focus on the biggest mob and work on holding that aggro, if you can't handle even level mobs solo without me holding the aggro for you then there is something wrong. I do everything I can to keep my healer free of enemeies... but other then the healer, deal with it. I'm busy keeping the heavy hitters occupied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-derDo- Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 - also I always lead off with my Death from Above when heading into battle and hit as many as I can and then use sonic/dart to pull anything off my healer... I dont know, where i read about it, but i think that a taunt will grant u 110% of the aggro the mob's target actually has. If this is true, ur opening with taunt as ur second spell is a waste, cause at this point the other players will have so low aggro, that one single autoshot would probably create more aggro. But i dont really know if this "110%-fact" is true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DredlyLB Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The biggest thing for me is typically getting everyone to hate on me so that the rest of the group can peal them off one at a time. So if I start out with 5 mobs and a boss shooting me, I hold the boss as hard as I can and guard my healer to reduce their aggro then the DPS can either fry the boss or peal the mobs off one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsabeer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 IMHO Be sure to use Ion cylinder, tell your group you need 3 to 5 seconds on the mobs before they attack. After a few hits on everything you will have aggro. Now be sure everyone is on the same target burn it down. Tell them not to AOE unless you say to and if you do allow it be ready to use your AOE taunt that you pry don’t have just yet. If a DPS is on something besides what you have targeted warn him once let him die if he does it again. use your taunt and grapple on the mobs that break off to eat your healer then switch back to the mob you have called to die. You have to call the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iRouven Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (...) "Ive never understood everyones obsession with keeping heat low - IMO burn that **** out! If your keeping it low then your rotations arent aggressive enough, which can mean you'll lose aggro if any DPS worth is salt is pounding the enemy." --I also think you should not aim to keep your heat low at all costs. In this game the heal/regen (ammo, force, heat etc.) is very swift and easy and with no cooldown, so, after any fight, you'll be at 0 heat in a few secs for the next one... meaning you can (should?) aim to end at high heat and let fly towards the end of a fight. But, again, IMO it depends on situations: if you want to aggro' a bunch of mobs and be sure they are on you, then let loose and damage like mad in the beginning, and overheat, and then let it go down... if you feel it'll be a long fight then you can pace yourself... Anyhow, it's not rocket science (it's rocket PUNCH!) and you'll easily get a feel for the various situations and how to react to them. Well ... I guess because of this, which I personally wasn't aware of until reading it in the Bounty Hunter Guide that is stickied here - taken from there: From 0-39% heat, you'll be dissipating 5 points of Heat every second. From 40%-79% you're dissipating 3 heat per second. From 80%-100% heat, you'll only be dissipating 2 points of Heat every second. Barring cooldowns or talents, it takes just over 30 seconds for your Heat to go from 100% to 0%. Clearly, it's better for you to try and keep your Heat low for as long as possible rather than spamming a bunch of abilities at once, overheating, and then having to sit there and wait. I find it very frustrating being up there in the Heat and not able to do much, so I try to keep it lower (especially after using Heat Vent) and again going up when the end of the fight draws closer. Other than that so far (which is only up to Mandalorians) I haven't had major problems and now I'm curious to see my new Sonic Missile in action! Good Hunting to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
je-s-ter Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 You want to keep your heat low because thats when you vent the most heat passively. From my experience, you don't want to go over 40 heat when tanking. If you go over 40, use your filler or heat vent (rapid shots/heat blast). There is nothing worse when you are tanking a boss, you have 60-70 heat and no way getting rid of it and the boss spawn adds that you need immidietaly catch with your AoE to grab aggro or they insta gib a party member. So yeah, just keep your heat as low as possible. because once you reach 70+ heat (and that is REALLY easy once you go over 40-50) and doesn't have Vent Heat available, you're a useless tank that can only spam rapid shots. Good luck holding aggro with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DredlyLB Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 IMHO Be sure to use Ion cylinder, tell your group you need 3 to 5 seconds on the mobs before they attack. After a few hits on everything you will have aggro. Now be sure everyone is on the same target burn it down. Tell them not to AOE unless you say to and if you do allow it be ready to use your AOE taunt that you pry don’t have just yet. If a DPS is on something besides what you have targeted warn him once let him die if he does it again. use your taunt and grapple on the mobs that break off to eat your healer then switch back to the mob you have called to die. You have to call the shots. Communication and holding the Sith back is the biggest issue I normally run into. Nothing is more of a PITA to deal with then a Sorc who likes opening with an AOE or running ahead before you have time to recover/vent heat. If your group won't work with you as a tank then they are already a lost cause and you are going to spend the whole time doing everything possible to keep people alive who are to dumb to listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazikeen Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Anyone have suggestions for how to hold boss aggro? I know Neural dart and Sonic will get the aggro for a few seconds but then they typically turn back to the super squish DPS Sith and I'm stuck trying to get the aggro back Many (not all) players are coming from WoW and started playing MMOs in WoW. This is bad for a number of reasons, the biggest being they never had to learn the 'old school' rules the hard way. By 'hard way' I mean reasonably cruel tanks and healers following fairly strict codes of battle As a tank I make it plain that I require a few seconds for aggro. In WoW vanilla it was generically termed 'wait for sunders'. I also make it plain that, while I will try to maintain aggro the best that I can it is also the DPS' job to throttle damage output to avoid pulling from me. The ONLY person who has the right to yell at a tank for losing aggro is a healer that is ONLY healing If they fail to wait for aggro generation or do not throttle DPS, I let them die. This solves the problem (as the DPSer is now dead) and the boss returns to me. Side note: abilities I use for aggro: Neural/Sonic darts, Explosive Dart (for AoE), Death from Above, Flame Sweep/Burst/Thrower and, most frequently, Rocket Punch (which I use A LOT since i have the talent to reset when I shield) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzlok Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The great thing about this game is the abundance of mobs during group play which aren't elite. When you're soloing in the wild as a lone dps and your companion is off doing a crew skill, is it hard to fight a mob, even a lone elite? Not really. Tanking in this game is based on the principle that, as the tank, your job is to run and go mental and get as much threat as you can on the biggest priorities. With your AoE and a clear head, you shouldn't have a problem getting threat on every target. Most importantly, in most situations, you don't need to KEEP threat on every target. There are supposed to be 'burn' targets for your DPS to take down quickly which require minimal tanking. If a non-elite mob peels off and runs for your DPS, take a look at its health. Chances are it's already below 75% maximum. Off your initial damage, and the amount of damage that the DPS caused to take threat off you, the mob should be a lot weaker. Any DPS worth their salt in this game isn't just thinking about maximising their DPS, they think about about maximising their survivability. As a Sniper, for example, a leg shot/flash grenade/debilitate combo could easily let me finish off a mob solo (hell that's overkill). The most important thing as the Tank is to not let loose mobs run around which actually have the chance to cause damage. If your DPS can't handle the pressure, then set up a kill order, make them stick to it and make them wait for you to build aggro. If multiple DPS are peeling off mobs and don't know how to minimise damage taken then the healer will quickly get overwhelmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DredlyLB Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Many (not all) players are coming from WoW and started playing MMOs in WoW. This is bad for a number of reasons, the biggest being they never had to learn the 'old school' rules the hard way. By 'hard way' I mean reasonably cruel tanks and healers following fairly strict codes of battle As a tank I make it plain that I require a few seconds for aggro. In WoW vanilla it was generically termed 'wait for sunders'. I also make it plain that, while I will try to maintain aggro the best that I can it is also the DPS' job to throttle damage output to avoid pulling from me. The ONLY person who has the right to yell at a tank for losing aggro is a healer that is ONLY healing If they fail to wait for aggro generation or do not throttle DPS, I let them die. This solves the problem (as the DPSer is now dead) and the boss returns to me. Side note: abilities I use for aggro: Neural/Sonic darts, Explosive Dart (for AoE), Death from Above, Flame Sweep/Burst/Thrower and, most frequently, Rocket Punch (which I use A LOT since i have the talent to reset when I shield) What a shame, miss the ol days of the healer sitting there with stacks of bandages in UO and the carbine CC in Galaxies The only 2 things I watch when I'm tanking is the main Mob (sometimes multiple if its a multi-elite fight like a bunch of Jedi) and my healer... Nothing touches my healer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Militum Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Conceptually the tank has changed very little over time, from its pen and paper origins through its early MMO iteration, the role of tanking has been one of situational awareness. Having the ability to anticipate what an enemy (or team mate) is going to do and take steps accordingly is the hallmark of a great tank. Be aware - first thing to master in Aggro school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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