Bad players are going to ultimately get Sentinels nerfed.

[Mercbeast]

Bioware will finally cave and address the bad players. They will give sentinels something they don't need and good players will become /godmode resulting in an over compensation that crushes the class.

 

That is my prediction anyways.

[zumwaloo]

well your prediction is wrong since the sentinels are no doubt UP compared to other classes with mercs troopers sorcs and sages all haveing to hit 1 abilty to score kills along with knock backs and heals compared to use with a jump and melee dps

[Mercbeast]

well your prediction is wrong since the sentinels are no doubt UP compared to other classes with mercs troopers sorcs and sages all haveing to hit 1 abilty to score kills along with knock backs and heals compared to use with a jump and melee dps

 

So because other classes are easier to play, this makes them over powered?

 

Because I've yet to run into a a commando or merc, or sage or sorc I couldn't crush 1v1 including very good players.

 

In fact, if you have ANY problem at all killing Mercenaries and Commandos you should really go back to basics and look at exactly what those classes do.

 

Commandos and Mercenaries are one of, if not the most overrated class in the game. They are absurdly easy to kill, they are absurdly easy to shut down. IF you ignore them yes they can grav or tracer spam for pretty solid damage. However, if you are competent, or playing with anyone competent they will NEVER get to free cast.

 

Their primary DPS ability is a 1.5s cast time. They have a secondary 1.5s cast time ability it is called charged bolts for Commandos, forget what it is for Mercs most players don't even hotkey it. If you interrupt this ability they literally cannot do anything for 4s. They can jump into their Full Auto Ability but EVERYTHING they use builds off of tracer and grav. Shut tracer and grav down every time they try to use it and they lose nearly all of their DPS and become free kills.

 

Sages and Sorcerors are too squishy to pose a real threat. You close to them, snare them, kick any heals and they will die unless they blow all their cool downs to escape. Next time they won't have those abilities and your own defensive cool downs used appropriately ensure that unless they roll in fresh, and you are cool down exhausted they will never beat you. This however is systemic to the game and indeed all tab target style MMOs. If someone jumps you with all their short duration cool downs up and uses them and you don't have any of yours up you're almost 100% going to lose provided the guy attacking isn't TERRIBLE.

[Toppins]

Bioware will finally cave and address the bad players. They will give sentinels something they don't need and good players will become /godmode resulting in an over compensation that crushes the class.

 

That is my prediction anyways.

 

This is my fear as well.

 

I roll with a Sage, a DPS Scoundrel, and a heals Scoundrel most of the time. The Sage and Scoundrel are very close to me in skill level, and we always do about the same exact DPS in Warzones, and we have about the same experiences in 1v1's and such. We're all single-target focused and don't use buff-stacking, so the numbers should be close if the classes are pretty balanced. Last night we had a several warzones in a row where we went something like 305k-307k-308k in damage, or 378k-382k-384k, or a slower-paced Alderaan that was like 213k-214k-218k... so what is going to happen if Sentinels go easy-mode? Players like myself will start doing ridiculous things and the class will be worse off in the long run.

 

I don't want better CC.

 

I don't want more damage.

 

I don't want centering to go away.

 

I don't want more survivability.

 

I don't want our defensive abilities to get lumped together.

 

Bring the Combat tree up to par with Watchman? Sure. Make Focus a little more applicable to Sentinels? Great. Tweak how centering works? Fine with me. Just make changes that make sense and keep the class unique - a highly mobile killing machine with great interrupts that relies on its team for CC and support.

[Nugens]

Im happy with sentinel.Only thing id like to change is the ability shuttering.I think everyone can agree on that.

[Araxus]

So thats why you think Sents are fine as is, cause you roll in a premade with healing support.

 

Newsflash: any class can faceroll in a premade with pocket healers. Just because you are successful in this way doesn't mean everybody is.

 

Spend a day queing solo in wazones, with no premade support, and tell me the class is fine as is and doesn't need any cc (when EVERY other class has it).

 

And yea, Warzones are not geared towards the solo player, its a team based map, etc. We get it it. But by doing so, you see how naked the class really is, and where we are lacking compared to other class.

 

Take Tidus (Assain) for example. I bet he melts your face 1v1. And guess what, he can go spec to tank if he wants, he can do ranged dps, he has stealth, and more cc(including a knockback!)! So he does what you do, to a better extent, plus 10 other things.

[Seriasx]

So because other classes are easier to play, this makes them over powered?

 

Because I've yet to run into a a commando or merc, or sage or sorc I couldn't crush 1v1 including very good players.

 

In fact, if you have ANY problem at all killing Mercenaries and Commandos you should really go back to basics and look at exactly what those classes do.

 

Commandos and Mercenaries are one of, if not the most overrated class in the game. They are absurdly easy to kill, they are absurdly easy to shut down. IF you ignore them yes they can grav or tracer spam for pretty solid damage. However, if you are competent, or playing with anyone competent they will NEVER get to free cast.

 

Their primary DPS ability is a 1.5s cast time. They have a secondary 1.5s cast time ability it is called charged bolts for Commandos, forget what it is for Mercs most players don't even hotkey it. If you interrupt this ability they literally cannot do anything for 4s. They can jump into their Full Auto Ability but EVERYTHING they use builds off of tracer and grav. Shut tracer and grav down every time they try to use it and they lose nearly all of their DPS and become free kills.

 

Sages and Sorcerors are too squishy to pose a real threat. You close to them, snare them, kick any heals and they will die unless they blow all their cool downs to escape. Next time they won't have those abilities and your own defensive cool downs used appropriately ensure that unless they roll in fresh, and you are cool down exhausted they will never beat you. This however is systemic to the game and indeed all tab target style MMOs. If someone jumps you with all their short duration cool downs up and uses them and you don't have any of yours up you're almost 100% going to lose provided the guy attacking isn't TERRIBLE.

 

 

I'm not going to disagree with you, but I will say that this game is not balanced for 1v1 combat because if it was we would all be playing the same class.

 

I will say we do lag behind a bit in group pvp/pve content when it comes to dps, you may feel otherwise or maybe you just play WZ's under a 1v1 mentality which is perfectly fine.

[Toppins]

So thats why you think Sents are fine as is, cause you roll in a premade with healing support.

 

Newsflash: any class can faceroll in a premade with pocket healers. Just because you are successful in this way doesn't mean everybody is.

 

Spend a day queing solo in wazones, with no premade support, and tell me the class is fine as is and doesn't need any cc (when EVERY other class has it).

 

And yea, Warzones are not geared towards the solo player, its a team based map, etc. We get it it. But by doing so, you see how naked the class really is, and where we are lacking compared to other class.

 

Take Tidus (Assain) for example. I bet he melts your face 1v1. And guess what, he can go spec to tank if he wants, he can do ranged dps, he has stealth, and more cc(including a knockback!)! So he does what you do, to a better extent, plus 10 other things.

 

Ah! If only I had a pocket healer like Tidus. Anethia is his btw. I have healers that usually WZ with me but they aren't leashed to me like Tidus's healers are to him. Certainly no battlemaster healers. He doesn't melt my face, he tickles. He melts Sages, but that's what Assassins are built for. I can't really kill him with his pocket healer 1v2, but the few times I've gotten him alone it has been a very close fight. When he was still DPS spec'ed I ripped him apart in a Huttball where we got a fair 1v1, but as tank spec I have no interest in killing him so I just ignore him and attack who he's guarding. He can't kill me and I can't kill him is how it usually goes when we meet. I just got a nice premade vs. premade with him this morning with his Battlemaster Sorc group and we won a very lively Alderaan 150-0 or so.

 

But he can't reach Sentinel/Marauder DPS levels. If he rolled with a Marauder like Akashe, for example, it would become quite clear that Assassins don't measure up to Marauders in pure DPS. They have other tools that make them great to have on a team, but pure DPS is not it.

 

But enough with the Jung Ma gossip,

 

I do solo queue warzones, or queue with no healer, and my experience is much the same. I have so much survivability it hurts me much less than it hurts a Scoundrel or Gunslinger or Shadow, for sure. I was using that as an example of how Sentinel stacks up against other classes when played by equally skilled players.

 

You're not a bad player if you're the same Araxus from Jung Ma, so don't give into this "make Sentinels the same as the other classes" BS. Learn to use the toolset you have to the fullest extent and embrace the niche we occupy... or roll a class that better suits what you expect.

[Inarai]

well your prediction is wrong since the sentinels are no doubt UP compared to other classes with mercs troopers sorcs and sages all haveing to hit 1 abilty to score kills along with knock backs and heals compared to use with a jump and melee dps

 

Skill curve has absolutely no relation to the general power level of a class - in point of fact, that should be judged based on the very top of the curve.

 

I really don't see the Sentinel as needing the fire-and-forget CC that other classes have. Master Strike, Force Leap, Force Stasis, Cauterize, etc. are far more more useful to the class in terms of the CC they provide - rooting an enemy while you drop a huge damage move, or feed focus off of them is more valuable. Taking away their movement speed is more valuable. Things like Pacify are infinitely more useful. The trick is to adapt tactics based on what you do have. The controlling tools you do have are basically about synergy with whatever else you're doing at the moment.

 

Should mention, too, that metrics based balancing basically means that bad players crying means nothing - they can see the actual numbers, what's really happening in the game and can work with reality rather than perception.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Inarai

[Apocalypse-]

Been there, done that, have expected it to happen since Centering buffed the class so much. Working on a Sith Pureblood ASCII facepalm for when the time comes.

[Nyteblades]

The main reason most of the people are screaming sents/maras dont need improved is because they dont want to loose thier quick kill scores in pvp..

 

They worried we might actually be able to fight back .Without being constantly kited or ccd to death.

[Satsujinki]

After the inevitable fix to ability stuttering/delay I'd like to see some "small" buffs like removing Overload Saber, Saber Ward and Rebuke and the skills like them from the GCD.

 

Some other issues I'm having with my Watchman spec is that Champion gear is mostly focused on Accuracy and Power whereas I'd much rather have Accuracy/Crit to make my dots crit more often.

[Toppins]

After the inevitable fix to ability stuttering/delay I'd like to see some "small" buffs like removing Overload Saber, Saber Ward and Rebuke and the skills like them from the GCD.

 

None of these abilities respect the GCD currently. I use them while I am mid-leap quite often.

 

Some other issues I'm having with my Watchman spec is that Champion gear is mostly focused on Accuracy and Power whereas I'd much rather have Accuracy/Crit to make my dots crit more often.

 

This is more of a preference, and you can replace the Mod/Enhancement slots in PvP gear currently, so I would encourage you to do so with mods/enhancements that are more in line with what you want. No power/accuracy is built-in to the armor, it's just in the replaceable slots. You can get these from crafters or high-end PvE content, including taking them out of purple PvE drops.

[Araxus]

Ah! If only I had a pocket healer like Tidus. Anethia is his btw. I have healers that usually WZ with me but they aren't leashed to me like Tidus's healers are to him. Certainly no battlemaster healers. He doesn't melt my face, he tickles. He melts Sages, but that's what Assassins are built for. I can't really kill him with his pocket healer 1v2, but the few times I've gotten him alone it has been a very close fight. When he was still DPS spec'ed I ripped him apart in a Huttball where we got a fair 1v1, but as tank spec I have no interest in killing him so I just ignore him and attack who he's guarding. He can't kill me and I can't kill him is how it usually goes when we meet. I just got a nice premade vs. premade with him this morning with his Battlemaster Sorc group and we won a very lively Alderaan 150-0 or so.

 

But he can't reach Sentinel/Marauder DPS levels. If he rolled with a Marauder like Akashe, for example, it would become quite clear that Assassins don't measure up to Marauders in pure DPS. They have other tools that make them great to have on a team, but pure DPS is not it.

 

But enough with the Jung Ma gossip,

 

I do solo queue warzones, or queue with no healer, and my experience is much the same. I have so much survivability it hurts me much less than it hurts a Scoundrel or Gunslinger or Shadow, for sure. I was using that as an example of how Sentinel stacks up against other classes when played by equally skilled players.

 

You're not a bad player if you're the same Araxus from Jung Ma, so don't give into this "make Sentinels the same as the other classes" BS. Learn to use the toolset you have to the fullest extent and embrace the niche we occupy... or roll a class that better suits what you expect.

 

I am the same Araxus from Jung Ma. And I do not think our class is complete trash either. I leveled up as Combat (big mistake), switched to Watchmen and had fun with it, and recently went to Focus and discovered that it is the true tree for pvp.

 

As Watchmen I noticed that while I can top 300k damage, people just were not dying if they had a healer. As Focus, while it is not as high sustained dps, it has a hell of alot more burst to drop people low on life. Flus it's easier to keep people in melee range with the 2nd leap and exhaustion.

 

The change I want to the class is a pull or knockback, just as every other class has. Since we mash more hotkeys than anyone else, we will see the greatest improvement once the ability lag gets fixed. However I would like a tad more utility/versatility in the terms of cc of what not to, in my opinion, help balance us out.

[Vibeth]

None of these abilities respect the GCD currently. I use them while I am mid-leap quite often.

 

They are hardly off GCD. Most of the times they require the previous animation to finish. They might be off GCD in theory, but in practice it's FAR from it.

 

Most bugged class of the year award goes to... Sentinel!!

Edited January 18, 2012 by Vibeth

[Xavory]

Ah! If only I had a pocket healer like Tidus. Anethia is his btw. I have healers that usually WZ with me but they aren't leashed to me like Tidus's healers are to him. Certainly no battlemaster healers. He doesn't melt my face, he tickles. He melts Sages, but that's what Assassins are built for. I can't really kill him with his pocket healer 1v2, but the few times I've gotten him alone it has been a very close fight. When he was still DPS spec'ed I ripped him apart in a Huttball where we got a fair 1v1, but as tank spec I have no interest in killing him so I just ignore him and attack who he's guarding. He can't kill me and I can't kill him is how it usually goes when we meet. I just got a nice premade vs. premade with him this morning with his Battlemaster Sorc group and we won a very lively Alderaan 150-0 or so.

 

This just proves what I've been saying for weeks: Anethia needs to freaking heal me more and Tidus less!

 

btw we really need some server forums!

Edited January 18, 2012 by Xavory

[Araxus]

This just proves what I've been saying for weeks: Anethia needs to freaking heal me more and Tidus less!

 

btw we really need some server forums!

 

Xavory why are you here ><

[Xavory]

Doing recon, looking for ways to kill Sentinels!

 

Actually was trying to decide between shadow or sent for my Repub alt so I was getting some leveling info, and this thread title interested me.

[adamacl]

I hate hearing this LTP i am only a 37 sentinel i have alot of pvp experience from other games i was questing when im hit by a tracer missile from a 32 bounty 1.5k i realize leap on him im combat spec he knocks me away shoots 2 more at me thats 4.5k just from missiles then he knocks me back again and stuns me i "trinket" it then take 1 more missile im dead i was caught of guard granted but still thats horrible how few moves they have to use to get such mega damage im finding that we can be cc'd so easy

[Anethia]

mer. this thread makes me so sad D: I heal you xavory! and I mean come on give me some credit... If I'm only healing tidus then how on earth do I do 400k 500k and almost 600k healing in some of the wzs I'm in? You just want to be on my team face it D:

 

Also..YAY someone actually used my name instead of Tidus's pocket healer!!

[Tiduslol]

Ah! If only I had a pocket healer like Tidus. Anethia is his btw. I have healers that usually WZ with me but they aren't leashed to me like Tidus's healers are to him. Certainly no battlemaster healers. He doesn't melt my face, he tickles. He melts Sages, but that's what Assassins are built for. I can't really kill him with his pocket healer 1v2, but the few times I've gotten him alone it has been a very close fight. When he was still DPS spec'ed I ripped him apart in a Huttball where we got a fair 1v1, but as tank spec I have no interest in killing him so I just ignore him and attack who he's guarding. He can't kill me and I can't kill him is how it usually goes when we meet. I just got a nice premade vs. premade with him this morning with his Battlemaster Sorc group and we won a very lively Alderaan 150-0 or so.

 

 

Hi. I normally don't reply to any threads, but several people pointed me towards some Sentinal guy mentioning me with some false information.

 

First of all, I don't even know you. I know a few Sents on the server and you are not it.

 

Second, we have NEVER 1v1'd. Sure maybe one day you killed me while I was at 50% health running around without stealth, like I usually do. That does not count as 1v1.

 

Third, don't assume because there is Battlemasters in my Warzone group that they were my "pre-made". I am flattered that you actually remembered winning against a WZ I was in! woop woop <3

 

 

Oh and btw, I've never been tank spec for more than 4 hours. So stop flattering yourself with your little 'we can't kill each other when he is tank spec'. I've never tried going for you, and probably won't bother with you unless you are doing something important.

 

I respect a few people in your guild like Keymu, Slix, Fred, but you are probably one of their worst players. Give Felon a call and ask him how to play a Sentinel, I'm sure he'll teach you a few tricks.

 

Anyways, go Sents + Marauders!! good ones are tough to kill

[Lithomed]

Too much of this discussion is PvP-centric. JK's are pathetic in PVE. Their dps is not sufficient to counter their lack of CC, utility and survivability. Add to this their broken combat animations and their complexity and you have the weakest class in TOR.

 

I suspect that too many of you only play JKs and thus you have no experience with the ease and effectiveness the other classes enjoy doing PVE content. Every other class SHAMES the JK at both their ease of play and overall effectiveness.

[Toppins]

mer. this thread makes me so sad D: I heal you xavory! and I mean come on give me some credit... If I'm only healing tidus then how on earth do I do 400k 500k and almost 600k healing in some of the wzs I'm in? You just want to be on my team face it D:

 

Also..YAY someone actually used my name instead of Tidus's pocket healer!!

 

Oh, I know, no disrespect intended, but we do joke about it... good times fighting you

 

But to Araxus, I think Focus is a legitimate spec, but not superior when it comes to PvP. It is worse off in 1v1's, not as effective in countering healers, and a little gimmicky, but it does have higher damage potential because you actually use AoE's as opposed to just single-target damage. I think Watchman is better at sticking to targets as well because you're never short on centering for Transcendence if needed and Leap is on a 12 sec CD. With more focus to work with leg slashes are easy to come by as well.

 

So I guess all this is saying that maybe a "buff" could be in order for Sentinels, but just to Combat and a little for Focus. Not to general damage done and such.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Toppins

[EasymodeX]

The only class-specific buffs that are needed are a little smoothing out of Combat/Carnage. Specifically around the duration / GCD-use of Precision Slash, and probably a small increase in passive damage, like a 5-10% crit buff on the 6s buff from Ataru procs.

 

Focus is completely fine as long as they don't dick with Transcendence. Watchman is fine.

 

 

Everything else is UI or client-server related.

 

 

I agree with the OP: ifwhen they buff Mara/Sents because of the baddies, some players will go so far godmode that nerfs are inevitable.

[Toppins]

Anyways, go Sents + Marauders!! good ones are tough to kill

 

Yes. Yes we are. I'll let you believe what you must, but Kaymu/Slix literally cheer in TS when they top me in DPS. Fred plays during the day because he only plays at work so I don't get a chance to group with him. I remembered the WZ because it was yesterday morning before I went to work, I only did maybe 5, and I don't usually play in the morning because I stay up so damn late. Totally sad for no server forums.

 

 

PvE may be a different story, I've done limited content and without DPS meters it's kind of difficult to really see how we stack up. Solo PvE is a legitimate concern, though. I don't know how you fix that without breaking everything else, though.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Toppins