Casual = Happy and Re-Subscribing; Hardcore = Rage Quit

[dcgregorya]

Hardcore is opening a beer bottle with your eye socket or hanging from the ceiling by ****** rings. World of warcraft is not hardcore.

[Skerry]

Wrong, Vanilla wow was changed after about a year, when casuals had no way to progress any further, as raiding required commitment that was not doable by the working people, families etc.

 

After a year the game started going down hill, until finally Blizz gave up and introduced casual content to the players, as well as potential progress for casuals trough pvp. Even then, that progress took forever, and was not enough for many. PVP was not fun with only PVE gear, as those who couldn't raid got 1-2 shotted at all times, even at max level.

 

Man games were released that focused on hardcore gaming, like Vanguard, but did not survive.

 

Perhaps what hardcore players has to realize is that, many gamer's from the past today are working long hours, having families, and facing the responsibilities that life brings. These people still want to game, but if the game they play doesn't appeal on their lifestyle, they stop paying. These people can be relied on (they have money), they don't demand new content every other week (eases up the work load on developers) and don't judge a game with its cover (as they have played many games in the past, and can be patient and wait for the flaws to be fixed). Many older gamers nowadays sees gaming also as a family activity. If an MMO is going to require me and my son to play 6 hours a day to have some kind of a gear, I am not going to play that. However, I could play Starwars, do some quests together with my son, while having some snacks, and get some satisfaction out of it in a short period of time. This is more suitable to me than a game that would demand unrealistic devotion.

 

I suspect many people who insult casuals have not experienced what it is like to have responsibilities, and fairly so, are ignorant to the reality. Most of the time, growing up fixes this.

 

This is one of the problems, the perceptions based on where the measurements starts.

 

 

Trust me ; to most Veteran MMOs gamers around when WOW came out considered WOW to be MMO Lite. There was nothing hard about it and it was incredibly casual friendly compared to most games before it.

 

It did set a new standard - a lower one; and we are all paying for it.

[Kurnea]

No, WoW is better than all that, and you know it. I love how WoW phobic this community is. Don't worry guys, once the romance companion patch rolls in you'll see Pandas aren't so lame after all.

 

While there are indeed plenty of WoW-phobics in this game, preferring Baldur's Gate as your number 1 game in no way makes someone a WoW-phobic. I personally love WoW, and would like some of WoW's features to make it to this game. However, I'm not quite sure if anything will really beat Baldur's Gate II(and it's not nostalgia talking. I replayed the entire series a few months ago, and it was every bit as addictive as I remembered.)

 

There's nothing wrong with liking other games.

[Merrinset]

I think you missed the fact that I was referring to MMO's in general, not specifically EQ, which is why I wrote that they "tended" to be that way. How many times had EQ been expanded by the time WoW came out?

 

And no, WoW wasn't my first MMO, it was Eve. I didn't even play WoW until TBC, and even in TBC it was nowhere near as casual as this game is, nor as casual as what WoW is now.

 

Where did I mention EQ in my post? I never even played EQ. I was playing UO and DAoC while they were playing EQ.

[Jett-Rinn]

Hardcore is opening a beer bottle with your eye socket or hanging from the ceiling by ****** rings. World of warcraft is not hardcore.

 

I always tell WoW progression raiders to go get their Trueshot Bow in EQ pre SOL and then come talk to me about Hardcore

[Shortwave]

I play WoW still have a lot of friends there but it isn't in my top five game list...EQ did a lot of things better than WoW ever did...I will give WoW props for making MMO's accessible and starting the Causal revolution and blazing the trail but it's top ten not top five.

 

I also plan to buy MOP will probably even get the collectors ed I'm a fan so you can hardly call me phobic.

 

 

Not you necessarily, but the community as a whole. They are pretty much like, "Ewww, WoW." I would wager a good portion of them has it installed on their hard drives and will be standing right outside the game store when MoP hits. Hell I'd say that a reason for this game's seemingly successful launch is that it was timed between WoW expansions. EA just is hoping to keep a profit till MoP drops, once it does so will this games subscriber base.

 

Be honest, would you invest a few thousand in this project? I know I wouldn't.

[zaltanus]

Idk if I'd consider myself a veteran- I've played WoW (Vanilla-WotLK), EvE, WAR, and Aion. However, I didn't do Neverwinter or any EQ stuff. WoW got boring after a long while, and after they kind of wrote themselves into a corner talking about Cataclysm I lost all interest. Played EvE for a good while, was fun- might return to that later, and WAR and Aion was a one month and done for me.

 

This game keeps me interested even after the story is over. Exploring the game, doing dailies for credits, PvPing nightly, sending my lackeys off to craft awesome things for me and running hardmodes keeps me interested. I see the glitches, and I have faith they're working stuff out. I an re-subbing because I like what the game is so far but I also see the potential for it to be much better than it already is. I'm excited to see what it becomes and what new things they're going to add/change in the future. Until the kinks are worked out, I'm perfectly content picking random tagets and using my lightning hands to turn them to ash.

[Saurakk]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

The main trend I notice on these forums are generalizations like the one presented here.

[Mannic]

I wouldn't put 1 game from the 90s MMOs that was a must play to be a veteran.

 

But yeah if you haven't at least played Neverwinter Nights, Meridian 59, Ultima Online, or original Everquest you probably aren't an MMO vet.

 

Why would you even put NWN on a list of MMO's? Are you talking about the AOL game?

Edited January 17, 2012 by Mannic

[Ancientwolfgr]

This is one of the problems, the perceptions based on where the measurements starts.

 

 

Trust me ; to most Veteran MMOs gamers around when WOW came out considered WOW to be MMO Lite. There was nothing hard about it and it was incredibly casual friendly compared to most games before it.

 

It did set a new standard - a lower one; and we are all paying for it.

 

That brought a tear to my eye. So very true.

[JeremyDale]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

The reason for the "hard core" player concern is the game moves extemely fast, and chances are after a month or two they are going to have already eaten up the content. And I think they have a legitamate concern.

 

This game is paced far too quickly. If you take the time to do all the quests, flashpoints, dailies, to say nothing of experimenting around with PvP warzones and space combat - you will completely trivilize all of the content. That's going to be a problem for veteran MMORPGers who are looking for challenging and rewarding gameplay - because the game itself forces many players to play an an accelerated pace simply so they can stay on par level-wise with the progression of content.

 

SWTOR in many ways is a new breed of game. It's not like other game's I've played - and it has a different forumla. Rather it's successful or not remains to be seen - but it is deffinitely aimed at the "instant gratifcation" gamer who wants results quickly without having to put in a lot of effort.

 

It's true this formula will appeal to a broader base. But it's also true unless new content is released quickly and regularly, players are going to run out of things to do. So it's a difficult balancing act, and we'll see if Bioware is successful at it or not.

[Hayduke]

Why would you even put NWN on a list of MMO's? Are you talking about the AOL game?

 

I assume he is. About the same time frame as Meridian 59 which he also mentioned.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Hayduke

[Kirjava]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I think your premise is an opinion, not fact.

 

Most of my guildies play 6-7 hours a day, and played in beta for over a year, and are still enjoying the game.

[Ancientwolfgr]

Why would you even put NWN on a list of MMO's?

 

Because, you could, and still can set up your own MMO'esque server and design it your way with the right applied knowledge. Same for NWN2. True hardcore.

[Merrinset]

Not you necessarily, but the community as a whole. They are pretty much like, "Ewww, WoW." I would wager a good portion of them has it installed on their hard drives and will be standing right outside the game store when MoP hits. Hell I'd say that a reason for this game's seemingly successful launch is that it was timed between WoW expansions. EA just is hoping to keep a profit till MoP drops, once it does so will this games subscriber base.

 

Be honest, would you invest a few thousand in this project? I know I wouldn't.

 

Could be people are just sick of hearing things being "copied from WoW" that WoW copied from previous games in the first place. I generally ignore any comment that says "WoW had <insert something from UO, DAoC, EQ, whatever else> so this game should to" as an argument. If it's something that was genuinely from WoW, then I might pay attention.

 

I played WoW for a long time, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I finally ended my run after hitting the Cataclysm end game and I won't be going back for the MoP expansion. It'll be the first one I don't buy.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Merrinset

[hulduet]

You really think this forum reflects *all* players playing swtor?

[blackcerberus]

What are your thoughts?

I doubt this game has hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of hardcores

 

and thats a low estimation of the people that will leave in 2 days

 

so no, plenty casuals also dislike this game.

 

casuals AND newcomers to the genre? yep, those might be enjoying it, since they lack something to compare it to and dont know better

Edited January 17, 2012 by blackcerberus

[Temeluchus]

Kerafyrm The Sleeper >MC,Illidan,LK,Deathwing

 

The Battle of Kithicor Forest, a GM run event involving a massive war of NPCs and players,> the scripted "battles" of WoW.

 

It's the GM run/sponsored events from EQ that I really miss in MMOs nowdays. Anyone who took part in that Battle, either with Lanys T`Vyl or against her, will probably list that as one of their favorite MMO moments.

[Jswizzle]

Why would you even put NWN on a list of MMO's? Are you talking about the AOL game?

 

Why not? Was it technically not an MMO? My first was Meridian 59, but a lot of people from Meridian 59 came from NWN. It was online, and multi-player. What more do you ask for.

 

M59 was the first true 3d mmo. These boards are strange to me. Like nobody has heard of it here.

[hulduet]

It's the GM run/sponsored events from EQ that I really miss in MMOs nowdays.

 

Daoc did the same during the beta and in EU a bit after the release. For some reason they just stopped doing it. But the thing about those events was that they were so unique, no scripted generic boss fight can ever come close to it. But it just doesn't happen in todays mmos because they're too big. You have a ton of servers and players. It only works in a smaller game that only has a handful of servers, like the old school mmos.

[daedalusmachine]

I am an MMO vet. love the game, but i am mature and have realistic expectations of an mmo launch and patch release times.

[Rivianchief]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I can't really confirm this, atleast not the way you present it. I think there dozens of casuals that won't re-sub either. Basically because they were suspecting something different perhaps.

[Kurnea]

Because, you could, and still can set up your own MMO'esque server and design it your way with the right applied knowledge. Same for NWN2. True hardcore.

 

I think they're talking about the AOL version of Neverwinter Nights, not to be confused with the Bioware version. Nor to be confused with the current 'Neverwinter' campaign Wizards of the Coast is all abuzz over.

 

You know, you'd think Faerun would have enough major cities that Wizards of the Coast could focus on something other than Neverwinter for a change.

[hulduet]

Many people consider themselves to be a "hardcore" players because they completed a raid in World of Warcraft or entered the arena. Just... wow.... You have no idea what it really means to be "hardcore", most of you you are just casual players, trust me.

[Jett-Rinn]

Not you necessarily, but the community as a whole. They are pretty much like, "Ewww, WoW." I would wager a good portion of them has it installed on their hard drives and will be standing right outside the game store when MoP hits. Hell I'd say that a reason for this game's seemingly successful launch is that it was timed between WoW expansions. EA just is hoping to keep a profit till MoP drops, once it does so will this games subscriber base.

 

Be honest, would you invest a few thousand in this project? I know I wouldn't.

 

Dude....

 

I get you are a fan of WoW; but no matter how much you wish it so....this game is a huge hit. EA has no worries about the profit of TOR...in fact the investors are doing happy dances right now.

 

I have a couple friends at Blizzard Cliff Jones being one of them; he did a lot of the audio mixing in Wrath and Cata...Blizzard is circling the wagons right now... they have a good solid plan to move forward but the days of 12 plus million subs are gone and they know it...matter of fact TOR stands a very good chance of catching up with their western market.

 

Is WoW dead? Hardly.....but more developers are coming out with titles that are going to go after their audience...and these are not halfass titles they are solid games made by veteran developers that have learned in the school of hard knocks what it takes to be successful.

 

Also the demographic is expanding TOR has a crap ton of first time MMO players...and they are for the most part absolutely gaga over the game.

 

Things are changing.....but it's good change there is room for everyone Bioware and Blizzard can both be successful....so can Arenanet if they ever decide to launch GW2.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Jett-Rinn