Missing complexity kills this game

[monjiay]

I'm playing a level 45 Sniper. I have to use all of my utility and cooldowns to survive.

 

The difficulty of the game is fine in my opinion.

 

Not to be rude, but you are the kind of player the OP is talking about. This game is easy. If it's hard for you, then that's ok and is just the way it is, but the game IS easy. Very easy. Simple even.

 

It's more like a children's book with a mouse.

 

And unfortunately, you will probably hit 50 and quit once you realize there is nothing for you to do. If the game were more complex, you might stick around!

Edited January 17, 2012 by monjiay

[lendaugy]

I have fun with Checkers. I also have fun with Chess. Why can't they be seen as 2 different games which one can play at their leisure?

 

Exactly, so why the subscription for this game?

[Jiraiya_Goketsu]

Hardest thing about this game for me is not cancelling my own instant casts. Edited January 17, 2012 by Jiraiya_Goketsu

[Elarion]

Meh, roll a Jedi Knight and try finish your last class quest before the bring the nerf hammer to it. It took me a solid 3 days to finish it without using exploits.

[Indureiner]

This post was trying to send a message to SWTOR and the developer/investor groups. Not a discussion about the diffeculty of the game if i strip naked, blindfolds myself and play without a companion.

 

Its about the difference of a game and a environement. And i agree with the posts that i might have gone wrong joining this game. But it really is meant as a constructive criticism.

 

Its about longevity of a game making the returns of the investment profitable and in the same time making gamers happy. Simple as that.

[Kurnea]

And?

 

We're talking MMO's here, not PONG.

 

I'm talking about video games in general here, and asides from the 'hardcore' mmo gamer that seemingly holds all other genres in disdain, it's normal and indeed healthy to try out new games and activities.

 

They are designed to be social as much as anything else. And you're ranting has nothing to do with my point, video games had more players dedicated to longer time frame back when the games were more "difficult". Gamers aren't always flighty, they can and do pick titles and stick with them if those titles provide a reason to.

 

'Gamers' have always had fun with a variety of genres and titles. Gamers play fps games, platformers, rts, rpgs, shooters, etc, as well as the occasional mmo. They don't feel guilt over picking up something new given enough time. And in the past, plenty of 'easy' games have stood the test of time. Take Super Mario Bros 3, not that hard, and yet consistently stayed at the top of the charts back in the day.

[Mertissielle]

Eve is an interesting example: yes it has won lots of awards and has a dedicated hardcore community, but that community is quite tiny and doesn't generate much revenue. CCP is currently laying off staff because it can't keep enough subscribers. I'm sure EA thinks of Eve as a good example of what not to do, and for good reason.

 

That's not true - while they have made some redundancies these have been mainly centred around those working on non-EVE games or non-spaceship features in EVE.

 

The exodus of subscribers was actually in direct relation to the Incarna expansion which introduced a half-finished "walking in stations" element and vanity items and actually detracted from the hardcore nature. They made that game more casual and people actually left it.

 

Even beside that dip, they have a constant core of ~400,000 subscribers and a concurrent user record of around 45,000. These are not "tiny" and they generate an incredible amount of revenue.

 

Now I don't think SWTOR should have followed that model and I don't see EVE ever taking on the likes of WoW in terms of volume of subscribers but it's anything but unsuccessful - their next expansion promises to revert their focus to the spaceship combat features and most predict a resurgeance in subscriber numbers following this.

 

EVE is unique and not necessarily a good model for other MMOs to take, especially ones set in a similar genre. But a failure is something it emphatically is not.

[Vydor_HC]

I'm talking about video games in general here, and asides from the 'hardcore' mmo gamer that seemingly holds all other genres in disdain, it's normal and indeed healthy to try out new games and activities.

 

'Gamers' have always had fun with a variety of genres and titles. Gamers play fps games, platformers, rts, rpgs, shooters, etc, as well as the occasional mmo. They don't feel guilt over picking up something new given enough time. And in the past, plenty of 'easy' games have stood the test of time. Take Super Mario Bros 3, not that hard, and yet consistently stayed at the top of the charts back in the day.

 

Ah, well then, I'd agree with ya. An MMO is a special kind of video game to me that tends to get people to plop down money for years on end. I too used to spend 50-100 bucks a month on games back when they were 10-20 a piece, prior to MMO addiction, now it's just a monthly fee.

[mangarrage]

Sadly you are 100% correct once the eq2/wow model came out that made mmos casual friendly everything in the genre (as far as people wanting challenge) was all gone and perhaps never to return again

 

I recently went back to play EQ messing around whiole I was waiting for this game and it has been way toned down when levelling

 

Raids as well have become trivial in pretty much every game and raid sizes have crept down from unlimited to 54 to 40 to 24 and now 16 which obviously makes for almost mind numbingly easy raids

 

People talk about competitive raiding as if it is an accomplishment to down stuff in today's games, when it is just almost ridiculously easy. LAst game with any consistancy with a difficult raid was eq2

 

And look at Rift, they release HK, granted buggy as hell, but the raids were difficult for the most part, not eq hard but a good 6 of 10 were a challenge, then everyone cried, threatened to quit and they nerfed it all to the ground

 

Sadly challenge is pretty gone now from games and thats sad

Edited January 17, 2012 by mangarrage

[Lordadamar]

I agree with you 100%....

 

And im going to add this....

 

The last great complex MMO was completely destroyed last year, Everquest / Everquest 2 used to be so complex so customizable and took a lot of research to fine tune your class it was like another job at times... But if you did it right you were noticed and sought after to raid...

 

In an attempt to attract more players and more Revenue the developers over the last 16 months or so shifted the game to a WoW clone. It doesn't matter what class you play they are all almost equal and near impossible to screw up speccing them... Essentially Sony and EQ2 were dumbed down so far that the eliminated the need to play 90% of there world content....

 

 

Though I like the over all game play of SWTOR I find it very simple VERY fast to level And simply idiot proof...

 

Not Enough options to not have Everyone look the same with the same skills same armor same weapons same mods....

[Elysith]

Hi all, and especially Bioware and LucasArt directors

...

 

For me its challenges, hardship and a good community overcumbing those challenges. that being a guild or a group or the like. Thats why i play MMO's not single player games.

...

 

I think you answer your own post for a part with this part. It's not because you like this, that every other player enjoy games for the same reason.

 

I like MMO for the cooperative and group adventure aspect. I enjoy consensual PvP too, furthermore when it has a goal, such a conquering a base for your guild or such activities.

 

I really dislike wild PvP because most of the time, it is just a big annoyance at time when you simply wanna PvE in peace with your friends.

I'm glad SWTOR have both PvE and PvP servers. I would have not purchased the game if only PvP servers were available. (Although PvE server rules need fixing because they currently can be exploited to force someone into PvP without its consent).

 

I've played many years other MMOs before with open pvp, experience penalty and potential equipment drop when dying and It clearly was nothing but fun in such case, furthermore when such items were very hard to obtain.

 

I do want a death penalty so that when I play, avoiding death makes sense. But only something temporary or slightly annoying, not a permanent loss or to the point where I just lost a lot of invested hours.

 

Also a mission complexity is not really related to death penalty. The difficulty to complete the mission is the same wherever you get an important death penalty or not. Only the cost of failing is different.

And for me a high failing cost brings nothing fun to the game, but only frustration.

 

Once again, it's just a matter of taste, both yours and mine being legitimate. You can't please every player. Not all games are the same, and at best I wish every player to find the type of game he likes and not all MMO to be the same.

 

SWTOR is not "hardcore" and I'm happy with that.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Elysith

[Iusedtoplaywow]

EVE online is really niche. Bioware is going for the mass market and the money. For casuals, EVE online is a ganking, unfun nightmare.

 

$15 /mo x 850,000 casuals > $15 /mo x 350,000 hardcore playing awesome game.

 

Not when you consider turnover. 850,000 casuals for what, at most a year before they go to the next game?

 

Versus 350,000 hardcores for 10 years. Even more substantial when you are trying to recover huge dev costs.

 

Makes no sense at all, actually.

[Iusedtoplaywow]

You make a hardcore game, appeal to the long time MMO fans, the guys that are responsible for this genre even existing, and you are guaranteed AT LEAST 3 years of 15 a month revenue from, what, lets say 500,000 'hardcores'.

 

Thats 600 bucks per person virtually GUARANTEED if you can make a great long lasting endgame a la EQ.

 

Versus a few months revenue from casuals who will be leaving in droves once they reach max level in this game and realize their hard work on the character they built is basically throw away.

[Kurnea]

Ah, well then, I'd agree with ya. An MMO is a special kind of video game to me that tends to get people to plop down money for years on end. I too used to spend 50-100 bucks a month on games back when they were 10-20 a piece, prior to MMO addiction, now it's just a monthly fee.

 

I simply look for bargains and buy what interests me. Picked up Dues Ex: Human Revolution for a little over $10 a few weeks back, and have got some great gameplay out of it. Still have quite a few titles I've bought cheap off of Steam over the years that I've yet to try out. And then there are titles like Battlefield 3 and Starcraft 2 that keep me coming back until something replaces them.

 

Personally, I never want to get to the point that playing an MMO kills my interest for any other games.

[LogicalPremise]

You make a hardcore game, appeal to the long time MMO fans, the guys that are responsible for this genre even existing, and you are guaranteed AT LEAST 3 years of 15 a month revenue from, what, lets say 500,000 'hardcores'.

 

Thats 600 bucks per person virtually GUARANTEED if you can make a great long lasting endgame a la EQ.

 

Versus a few months revenue from casuals who will be leaving in droves once they reach max level in this game and realize their hard work on the character they built is basically throw away.

 

What?

 

Have you been listening to the screaming of the fanboys on these forums? The game could be running at six frames per second and doused in napalm and some people here would say it's the greatest game EVAR.

 

I suspect that the number of casuals who can support this is higher than the number of hardcore who can actually hack it in EvE, which does not coddle baddies, fools, or the incompetent.

[Vydor_HC]

I simply look for bargains and buy what interests me. Picked up Dues Ex: Human Revolution for a little over $10 a few weeks back, and have got some great gameplay out of it. Still have quite a few titles I've bought cheap off of Steam over the years that I've yet to try out. And then there are titles like Battlefield 3 and Starcraft 2 that keep me coming back until something replaces them.

 

Personally, I never want to get to the point that playing an MMO kills my interest for any other games.

 

Funny you say you have some Steam games you're yet to try out, I thought I was the only one that did that...well, maybe not Steam, but I still have some in the shrink wrap.

 

And I put off playing MMO's for a long time because of not wanting them to addict me. I was so addicted to MUDs when they went graphical with UO, I shied away cuz I knew I'd be addicted...but DAoC lured me in and I've been stuck ever since.