Struggling

[Mooby]

Trying really hard to like this class, but I'm having so much trouble with it. I am only level 35 at the moment so maybe (hopefully!) things get better but at the moment I'm really bummed about the Vanguard DPS specs.

 

The animations just seem poor for a start, the only one I like is Pulse Cannon which also has a really great noise with it. My character has a little giggle as well when Ionic Accelerator procs which is irritating. Mortar Volley has some really long delay on it. Ion Pulse feels like has a delay too after it finishes and it just doesn't feel fluid at all.

 

DPS output of both Tactics and Assault seem poor. Coming from playing a Bounty Hunter and a Sorcerer to level 50 then playing a Trooper, the difference is just staggering. Things that I can solo no trouble at all or not even break a sweat with are quite a challenge as a Vanguard. One recent example, landed on Balmorra recently and had to kill some elite Colocoids as part of a bonus quest, it took me 6 tries to kill 3 elites with Elara out. Ended up having to wait for my cooldowns to finish just get them down.

 

Is it just me? does the damage output of the Tactics/Assault trees get better? It wasn't as bad pre-30, after that it just seems like everything is getting tougher to kill and I'm not getting any tougher. Really want to like this class, the story is good and I like my companions, but getting things done just feels like a chore more than fun

[Waagabond]

If you have troubles killing elites thats cause you are playing as assault or tactics.

 

First: Shield is the way to go for leveling as your damage is just a little lower but your survival is more then twice as good.

Mainly since your armor will be +76% and your using a shield.

 

Also, in PVE, a shield offhand procs very much compared to PVP.

I recomend you use one.

 

The bounty hunter and Trooper are identical.

But if you played a biotech shield techl spec and compare your survival to a vanguard assault or tactics spec then you must be out of your mind.

 

The ONLY difference between bounty hunter and trooper is that the animation for rocket punch compared to stock barrel is a little shorter. Full auto gets pushback while your missiles dont, and the ranged aoe damage attack is a little slower in animation.

 

This hopefully will get fixed. But other then that, they are identical.

 

With my vanguard Im chain pulling elites and can easily take on 2 to 3 at a time when Im shield spec. And I will kill them maybe 10% slower then as assault, thats it.

But as assault I will get a beating from one elite, will make it but will take a huge beating.

 

If you are near 50 and want true dps, you never, ever, spec 31 in a dps tree.

Your best dps spec , if you want maximum damage is 2/20/18

Your high impact shots is going to hit extremly hard, you have gut, incendiary shot, all the dps talents thats good.

 

No one can argue or say that any other spec then this can do more damage, its just not possible.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#8010MZrsMrobcoZfhMrzh.1

 

If you want to survive though, I recomend shield and tactics, since you will be in your face anyway, Gut should be in there. Shield/assault for PVE is a big no no, but its not bad for pvp, although for pvp you spend 50% of your points on talents you dont use, just to get incendiary shot, unless you run with plasma cell that is, I personally prefer ion cell in pvp if Im shield specd, since there is a lot of physical and kinetic damage out there.

 

Anyway, good luck, but last but not least. You are utterly wrong in your perspective that bounty hunters are much better then troopers. The animations I listed above is the only difference, although they are indeed great if you are in pvp.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Waagabond

[Mooby]

You are utterly wrong in your perspective that bounty hunters are much better then troopers. The animations I listed above is the only difference, although they are indeed great if you are in pvp.

 

Sorry I should have mentioned, my BH is a Merc which is possibly an unfair comparison but both are DPS and should perform close in terms of damage output but so far the Vanguard seems way behind.

 

Thanks for the pointers though, will pick up a shield at first opportunity.

[ironzerg]

Shield spec plus Elara means you can kill anything one-on-one. Edited January 17, 2012 by ironzerg

[Riulassher]

Three elite Collocoids at once? I skipped Balmorra bonus quests, so I am just wondering.

[Endek]

 

The ONLY difference between bounty hunter and trooper is that the animation for rocket punch compared to stock barrel is a little shorter. Full auto gets pushback while your missiles dont, and the ranged aoe damage attack is a little slower in animation.

 

This hopefully will get fixed. But other then that, they are identical.

 

Yep, hope this gets fixed as it seems like my Trooper spends ages trying to look good before he actually gets down to business...

Edited January 17, 2012 by Endek

[Mooby]

Three elite Collocoids at once? I skipped Balmorra bonus quests, so I am just wondering.

 

Oh, nah, one at a time but three in total to kill for the bonus. Just couldn't kill them efficiently no matter what I did.

 

 

Shield spec plus Elara means you can kill anything one-on-one.

 

Yeah definitely, the difference a shield + ion cell makes even with a DPS spec is crazy. Even killed an 80k HP "Bounty Hunter" that I found in the Cantina on Balmorra. Took about 10 minutes though.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Mooby

[ururururu]

vanguard class is amazingly op. if you are failing then you're just bad, sorry. edit : agree with last poster, try shield spec.. (but I don't think I'd have trouble with assault either).

 

my vanguard is level 48 now. I didn't have trouble at any point with vanguard. can do same level or higher level elites and end it at 100% health. can do two same level elites at once.

 

how OP must sorcs be if they make vanguards look like panzies? sheesh.

Edited January 17, 2012 by ururururu

[Mooby]

vanguard class is amazingly op. if you are failing then you're just bad, sorry. edit : agree with last poster, try shield spec.. (but I don't think I'd have trouble with assault either).

 

my vanguard is level 48 now. I didn't have trouble at any point with vanguard. can do same level or higher level elites and end it at 100% health. can do two same level elites at once.

 

how OP must sorcs be if they make vanguards look like panzies? sheesh.

 

Trololo.

[ururururu]

I'm not trolling. I had 0 problems leveling my vanguard. You can make idiotic posts like trololo, guess you're better at being annoying than playing mmos.

[Mooby]

I'm not trolling. I had 0 problems leveling my vanguard. You can make idiotic posts like trololo, guess you're better at being annoying than playing mmos.

 

Nothing in your post helped me at all, I bet you never even read most of it. You just waffled on about how you're shield spec, you can solo over 9000 elites at once and have 100% at the end. My post was about me having trouble with the Vanguard as an Assault spec and finding the DPS output too low. Apparently since you didn't have trouble with your Vanguard and I did, this immediately makes me bad.

 

In fact you even said you agree'd with the guy that posted before you about the shield thing, if you looked at the name that was in fact me and I had already mentioned since the original post that I was using a shield now after the first reply said to do so, and it had helped a lot.

 

So yeah, go back to soloing 9000 elites, as I guess you're better at that than reading. To everyone else that replied, thanks for the suggestions, having a much easier time on my Vanguard now.

[Lyability]

vanguard class is amazingly op. if you are failing then you're just bad, sorry. edit : agree with last poster, try shield spec.. (but I don't think I'd have trouble with assault either).

 

my vanguard is level 48 now. I didn't have trouble at any point with vanguard. can do same level or higher level elites and end it at 100% health. can do two same level elites at once.

 

how OP must sorcs be if they make vanguards look like panzies? sheesh.

 

Agree. My Van is lvl 46, I'm stalling as I want to PvP before I hit 50, delayed another ggoodd ddaammnn week.... *** bioware?!

 

Shield spec with Elara is godmode. The only time I die is when I'm drunk or my wife interrupts my playing. Why do women always want to talk, and demand attention, when I'm tanking?!

Edited January 17, 2012 by Lyability

[ururururu]

Nothing in your post helped me at all, I bet you never even read most of it. You just waffled on about how you're shield spec, you can solo over 9000 elites at once and have 100% at the end. My post was about me having trouble with the Vanguard as an Assault spec and finding the DPS output too low. Apparently since you didn't have trouble with your Vanguard and I did, this immediately makes me bad.

 

In fact you even said you agree'd with the guy that posted before you about the shield thing, if you looked at the name that was in fact me and I had already mentioned since the original post that I was using a shield now after the first reply said to do so, and it had helped a lot.

 

So yeah, go back to soloing 9000 elites, as I guess you're better at that than reading. To everyone else that replied, thanks for the suggestions, having a much easier time on my Vanguard now.

I think you should go back to your own post and read it. You complained about 1.) animations 2.) dps is low compared to sorc (??) and BH 3.) you can't do elites.

 

1.) Complaining about animations is pointless. If you hate it so much, don't play it. It's very doubtful this will get fixed. We get better looking armor, powertechs get better animations. All there is to it.

2.) I can't comment on sorc dps, but they all claim their dps is crap in pve. As to "Bounty hunter" it's not even an advanced class. Be more specific, and try not to whine so much.

3.) The only complaint I really responded to, and then you complain I didn't read all the way through even though clearly I did.

 

By the way I've done just fine in assault. Including elites. Apparently you don't understand how/when to engage, how to circle strafe, line-of-sight, or interrupt. You need to do these things in assault but in shield or parakeet it's not needed.

 

I prefer parakeet (hybrid shield/assault with ion cell) build because it's a better build for leveling by far IMO. You can use assault just fine though... if you weren't so bad.

[Mooby]

By the way I've done just fine in assault. Including elites. Apparently you don't understand how/when to engage, how to circle strafe, line-of-sight, or interrupt. You need to do these things in assault but in shield or parakeet it's not needed.

This is what I wanted, feedback / suggestions... was it so hard? Did you just need to burst straight out with "Vanguard is amazingly op, you're just bad". Thanks for the feedback regardless.

 

You can use assault just fine though... if you weren't so bad.

... so close to a reasonable post, totally blew it :/ Ah well, at least I got something out of this stupid argument.

[ururururu]

ok fine. I'm a negative nancy, work all weekend and its effectively monday. I will try to help. you must be doing something wrong because this class rocks. however, I do see lots of other vanguards suck badly especially in pvp and it just confuses me because I feel so strong with this class. here are some tips:

 

are you not upgrading your gun / gun barrel every chance you can? it is CRITICAL. get the purple one, it's every odd level. spam republic fleet asking for people to make them for you if not on AH. ditto your companion's gun/hilt, though this is less important. (maybe you can use your last barrel and its usually fine.. I just gave mine pvp weapons).

 

drop your crafting and pick up biochem. it will be a pain to level at 32 but the resuable stuff is just too good. alternate adrenal (crit until 50, then surge or shield for pve) & relic on pulls.. or you can alternate with mortar volley pulls. use aim/endurance stim. get bioanalysis & slicing.. drop slicing for diplomacy at 50.

 

already mentioned but use shield offhand.

 

stack aim & endurance. forget about other stats while leveling, however secondary stats should be crit, surge, power.

 

if you run with elara and assault, before elites make sure to turn off the carbonized steam channel ability and switch her to healing stance. it's a pain because it resets every mount. but you know about pet pains since you are a sorc...

 

last but not least

I highly recommend the 21/2/18 build (parakeet / specialist). it's burst is not as good as pure assault but its really not too far behind. as I've leveled it just becomes more and more apparent armor matters quite a bit in both pvp and pve.

 

my leveling build was ion up to the 2nd row. I'd probably do something like this at 32 -- add points to shield until 40, this at 40, and this at 50. the spec & points are interchangeable, play around with it. the important points are charge, 30% crit stockstrike, snare & ion dot, 9% aim, HIB procs, HIB armor penetration, and anything that gets you energy recovery. stuff like armor boost, grapple imobilize, etc. can be moved around.

Edited January 17, 2012 by ururururu

[Mooby]

Barrel is 30 and I'm 37 currently, will upgrade that as soon as possible.

 

Aim and Endurance I'm currently stacking, but I lack 2 relics which is going to be a hefty Endurance loss as my character is neutral and the only ones I can find require Light or Dark.

 

Didn't know about Elara's carbonized steam, will turn that off when needed.

Have Biochem currently at around 200 or so. Is it worth making reusable stuff at this level?

 

I'll look into respecing into that shield spec/assault hybrid, thanks for the specs per level range. Using some kind of weird Tactics build currently with some points into Shield but it's not working out so well.

 

Thanks for the tips/feedback. I'll get my head around this Vanguard at some point, really trying to stick with it.

[ururururu]

I think tactics is the worst leveling build. parakeet variants are super strong. that armor makes a big difference.

 

the relics get to be important.. I would chose a side asap. you can run flashpoints / class story only to catch up.

 

biochem is absolutely worth it. required are adrenal (crit) and especially medpack. get it asap. maybe some guy made it on the vendor already though.. or you can ask in republic fleet. $20-25k is a fair price, anything less is a bonus for you. you can even trade it after using it for 8 levels.. so sell it to make your $ back l8r!!

[AZmonsoon]

"my wife interrupts my playing. Why do women always want to talk, and demand attention, when I'm tanking?! "

 

Oh man how true this is!!!!!!!!!!

[ururururu]

"my wife interrupts my playing. Why do women always want to talk, and demand attention, when I'm tanking?! "

 

Oh man how true this is!!!!!!!!!!

 

learn to manage aggro better..

[Cheeseblaster]

stack aim & endurance. forget about other stats while leveling, however secondary stats should be crit, surge, power.

 

if you run with elara and assault, before elites make sure to turn off the carbonized steam channel ability and switch her to healing stance. it's a pain because it resets every mount. but you know about pet pains since you are a sorc...

 

last but not least

I highly recommend the 21/2/18 build (parakeet / specialist). it's burst is not as good as pure assault but its really not too far behind. as I've leveled it just becomes more and more apparent armor matters quite a bit in both pvp and pve.

 

my leveling build was ion up to the 2nd row. I'd probably do something like this at 32 -- add points to shield until 40, this at 40, and this at 50. the spec & points are interchangeable, play around with it. the important points are charge, 30% crit stockstrike, snare & ion dot, 9% aim, HIB procs, HIB armor penetration, and anything that gets you energy recovery. stuff like armor boost, grapple imobilize, etc. can be moved around.

 

thanks for that, I was just looking for that parakeet build, forgot which thread it was on. question. I'm lvl 25 right now, been building towards shield spec so all my point are in shield. At what level did you put points into Tactic and Assault? I've been stacking credits and commendations through PvP and buying my own armor since it's better than anything I get quest-wise. So i'm at a point where I'm comfortable taking some points out of shield and re-speccing more hybrid.

 

Question in general. How important in Willpower to a Vangaurd.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Cheeseblaster

[Lyability]

learn to manage aggro better..

 

Managing wife aggro demands a whole new skill tree.

[ururururu]

I respec'd a few times during leveling. Assault at times is meh until you get the full 18 points in it.

 

Pretty sure I picked the entire second row of shield, then 2 points in stockstrike, then 3 points in HIB. Then grabbed 2/2 in "shielding returns 1 energy" tactic. Then 3/3 endurance in assault, 2/2 "get 1 energy back when CCd". Looking back I might pick up the shielding returns 1 energy thing earlier..

 

I then respec'd entirely into assault & shield for some fun expirements.. YMMV

Edited January 18, 2012 by ururururu