Is it me or the healer.

[RocNessMonster]

I actually aggroed the marauder quite easily because I could focus my taunt and other attacks on him once I had thje other 3 on me ( and he goes down pretty quick when the dps focuses him down first)

 

What I'm saying is even if you have aggro he will force leap to another target, you're just wasting time chasing after him.

[DevonLoy]

This. This is a simple council fight, you burn them all down to about 10% then aoe them all down. You can also kill the marauder first if his annoying threat drop and force leap is too much for you to control. No CC necessary at all.

 

Also to the people saying L2tank, especially in AOE situations the tanks in SWTOR just don't seem to have the tools necessary to put out enough AOE threat to hold mobs. Some worse than others. Dps coordination is important, single target and burning down mob by mob on the majority of pulls is best. If you want to aoe, prepare to tank as tanks just aren't equipped for it right now. It's something that needs to be looked at.

 

Yeah the 2 aoes I have currently (force sweep and force freeze) generate no more aggroe than any other basic attack I have) I have to rely on hoping that some are easy to keep and use taunt on the jumpy ones.

[Biowraith]

This is true, I actually found this fight much more difficult than the final boss encounter, especially when your fighting the last one, he does more damage than the final guy and both his little turrets combined.

Oh, the final guy was *way* easier for us, and that was despite companion AI getting stuck/lost. I think my marauder friend finished him off sorta solo after he jumped, while I was still busy grabbing turret aggro (he gets impatient sometimes ;p). There's a few flashpoints where a mid-run encounter is a lot tougher than the final boss, and this is one of them.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Biowraith

[DevonLoy]

What I'm saying is even if you have aggro he will force leap to another target, you're just wasting time chasing after him.

 

I don't chase him down I just use taunt (a ranged 100% aggro that holds him for 6 seconds) after that he might jump to someone else but usually not until it's almost cooled down agian.

[Falkelord]

Problem would be solved with combat logs/meters.

 

Just sayin

 

Or just proper CC and knowing what order to handle the mobs.

 

Just sayin

[Joxerthemighty]

Causes of tank dying first:

 

1. Not getting required healing

2. Not mitigating enough damage

 

mitigate more damage with cc's, using your defensive cooldowns or even medpacs. if the fight took too long (healer ran out of juice) it may be a DPS problem as well.

 

in fights where mobs enrage after you kill one of the group, if you can manage to weaken them all and then burst them all down the last bit of the way it can be easier, that way you spend less total time with enraged mobs (i'm thinking of a particular warhammer online twin-boss in the city dungeon that had to be killed simultaneously)

[DevonLoy]

Oh, the final guy was *way* easier for us, and that was despite companion AI getting stuck/lost. I think my marauder friend finished him off while I was still busy grabbing turret aggro (he gets impatient sometimes ;p). There's a few flashpoints where a mid-run encounter is a lot tougher than the final boss, and this is one of them.

 

Yeah I made sure my DPS focused down the turrets while I aggroed off and on between the 3 of them (usually losing a turret to the sentinel but I used gaurd so I could tank his damage anyway.

[Keihryon]

Lol, someone reported my first post in this thread. Ahh well.

[brokentelevision]

Seriously if we had combat logs we'd know more.

 

 

I honestly think the lack of combat logs is only here to cover up the really bad balance that we're only suspecting but unsure as a way to even figure out. We know that powertechs are better tanks then Juggs but we don't know how much better and to what degree.

 

I have a feeling if we had combat logs we'd be assured that balance is more screwed up then we thought it was.

[oredith]

the aggro in this game, and more specifically, the healer aggro, is messed up right now. i would expect it to be looked at in the near future.

 

right now, Bounty Hunter will pull aggro instantly if he puts a kolto shell on the tank.

 

general tank AOE threat is pretty bad too, so CC and assist are important.

 

add to that, the threat reduction ACTIVATED (not the passive threat reduction) are not total aggro wipes, they're only % reduction, so most of the time, they do literally nothing.

 

to answer the OP, your healer probably left because he got killed by 2 untanked non-elites with 2k HP that were just shooting the healer unmolested.

 

I don't say that as a blame on the tank, just saying that's probably what happened. I have to help out my tank in a lot of hardmodes by running outta LOS because he simply can't put enough threat on that many mobs to overcome my healing threat.

[DevonLoy]

I would like to remind everyone that the problem was not the cc or the

 

tactics as after the smuggler left the sage was able to get me through it on

 

the same strategy

[Baaddare]

oh another thing i found helpful as a healer in that fight and you could suggest it to your healer. Whne you face the mobs the two walls to your right are capped off at their ends . Thus making a little space bu each of them that your healer can sit in breaking los to the targets. They can heal all the range members from there and pop out to heal the tank when need be. It helps a bit because when the healer goes get agro from any of the 3 ( non maruder) they have to run and move to get los on the healer before they attack him. Gives a chance for the group to see them moving towards attacking the healer so they can react.

[DevonLoy]

the aggro in this game, and more specifically, the healer aggro, is messed up right now. i would expect it to be looked at in the near future.

 

right now, Bounty Hunter will pull aggro instantly if he puts a kolto shell on the tank.

 

general tank AOE threat is pretty bad too, so CC and assist are important.

 

add to that, the threat reduction ACTIVATED (not the passive threat reduction) are not total aggro wipes, they're only % reduction, so most of the time, they do literally nothing.

 

to answer the OP, your healer probably left because he got killed by 2 untanked non-elites with 2k HP that were just shooting the healer unmolested.

 

I don't say that as a blame on the tank, just saying that's probably what happened. I have to help out my tank in a lot of hardmodes by running outta LOS because he simply can't put enough threat on that many mobs to overcome my healing threat.

 

The healer never had more than the marauder on him (and that was just unavoidable due to his random threat generation but I always saved taunt for it)

[DevonLoy]

oh another thing i found helpful as a healer in that fight and you could suggest it to your healer. Whne you face the mobs the two walls to your right are capped off at their ends . Thus making a little space bu each of them that your healer can sit in breaking los to the targets. They can heal all the range members from there and pop out to heal the tank when need be. It helps a bit because when the healer goes get agro from any of the 3 ( non maruder) they have to run and move to get los on the healer before they attack him. Gives a chance for the group to see them moving towards attacking the healer so they can react.

 

Ill have to try that some time thanks.

[Loxone]

I guess I should point this out, but we only were able to wipe once before the healer left, and we didn't need any other tactics once we got the sage.

 

Here was our party makeup for the run I described in my previous post:

 

Commando Trooper 25 - Me

 

Sage healer 23

 

JK Tank 24

 

Aric Jorgan 25 - my companion

 

We had my trooper CC (I believe you get at lvl 24) and the Jedi Sage CC (They get it earlier).

 

I still assert that as the tank you did your job based on your description and I also still believe that there may not necessarily be fault with the smuggler healer. This fight is not meant to be won at lvl 22-25 without CC. Without CC I would say you were lucky to have the 36 Sentinel in the party to dps down fast enough because neither healer (smuggler or sage) should be expected to heal all 4 being up without running out of resources.

 

I understand that it seems like the smuggler healer was completely at fault based on the fact you didn't change tactics and only got 1 enemy down the first try. But in a situation like that the difference between only getting one down and getting them all down is a very narrow gap. Once you get the 2nd target down the healer can sustain healing forever. Before that it's a DPS race to get the first two down.

 

At the end of the day it could have been any of these options:

 

1) Smuggler healer was not as good as Sage healer (doesn't mean he was bad just means he wasn't as good)

 

2) Your DPS was too slow the first time out and the first healer ran out of resources before you defeated your second target

 

3) Your team knew what to expect the second time around and that gave you an intangible edge.

 

At the end of the day I highly recommend you try the tactic I mentioned with the CC in the order I mentioned it and you can win through superior tactics even with a group of 22-25's one of them being a companion.

[DevonLoy]

Seriously if we had combat logs we'd know more.

 

 

I honestly think the lack of combat logs is only here to cover up the really bad balance that we're only suspecting but unsure as a way to even figure out. We know that powertechs are better tanks then Juggs but we don't know how much better and to what degree.

 

I have a feeling if we had combat logs we'd be assured that balance is more screwed up then we thought it was.

 

The Guardian and the Juggernaut lose tanking ability due to the much reduced ability to DPS the targets they are tanking (building more aggro) and even with the closer ranged attacks of the power tech, they can still significantly kite and or position themselves better than the melee tanks.

[Syas]

Tank (Me) lvl 22

For raiding party? That is kind of low. Considering a Scoundrel's tools against spike damage on someone who is taking more than usual, I don't think it was his "Fault", though I don't blame you either.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Syas

[Envenra]

Actually... In Mandalorian Raiders whenever one of the group dies, one of them enrages to do 100% more damage, and it'll continue to build up like that. So you need to drop them at the same time.

 

However if it weren't the case, its either the healer that can't heal or DPS taking the damage.

___

 

Note: You did write that the healer took damage, so one of the bosses may have gotten out of your threat and attacked the healer.

[DevonLoy]

Here was our party makeup for the run I described in my previous post:

 

Commando Trooper 25 - Me

 

Sage healer 23

 

JK Tank 24

 

Aric Jorgan 25 - my companion

 

We had my trooper CC (I believe you get at lvl 24) and the Jedi Sage CC (They get it earlier).

 

I still assert that as the tank you did your job based on your description and I also still believe that there may not necessarily be fault with the smuggler healer. This fight is not meant to be won at lvl 22-25 without CC. Without CC I would say you were lucky to have the 36 Sentinel in the party to dps down fast enough because neither healer (smuggler or sage) should be expected to heal all 4 being up without running out of resources.

 

I understand that it seems like the smuggler healer was completely at fault based on the fact you didn't change tactics and only got 1 enemy down the first try. But in a situation like that the difference between only getting one down and getting them all down is a very narrow gap. Once you get the 2nd target down the healer can sustain healing forever. Before that it's a DPS race to get the first two down.

 

At the end of the day it could have been any of these options:

 

1) Smuggler healer was not as good as Sage healer (doesn't mean he was bad just means he wasn't as good)

 

2) Your DPS was too slow the first time out and the first healer ran out of resources before you defeated your second target

 

3) Your team knew what to expect the second time around and that gave you an intangible edge.

 

At the end of the day I highly recommend you try the tactic I mentioned with the CC in the order I mentioned it and you can win through superior tactics even with a group of 22-25's one of them being a companion.

 

i think the main diference between the sage and the smuggler was the fact that the sage had access to or was just using a wider range of defense buffs such as force shield that reduced the amount he had to heal

[DevonLoy]

For raiding party? That is kind of low. Considering a Scoundrel's tools against spike damage on someone who is taking more than usual, I don't think it was his "Fault", though I don't blame you either.

 

This wasn`t a raiding party it was a simple PUG for a flashpoint

[DevonLoy]

Actually... In Mandalorian Raiders whenever one of the group dies, one of them enrages to do 100% more damage, and it'll continue to build up like that. So you need to drop them at the same time.

 

However if it weren't the case, its either the healer that can't heal or DPS taking the damage.

___

 

Note: You did write that the healer took damage, so one of the bosses may have gotten out of your threat and attacked the healer.

 

The marauder constantly jumped to the healer but he was the first to go down (we wiped around the 2nd last 2

[Syas]

This wasn`t a raiding party it was a simple PUG for a flashpoint

 

The name of the flashpoint is Mandalorian Raiding party, isn't it? (have only done it twice, so I may be wrong). You are talking about the Empire Boarding Party fight, right?

[DevonLoy]

The name of the flashpoint is Mandalorian Raiding party, isn't it? (have only done it twice, so I may be wrong). You are talking about the Empire Boarding Party fight, right?

 

yes thats what it`s called (i thought you meant you thought it was an actually Raid srry)

[Syas]

yes thats what it`s called (i thought you meant you thought it was an actually Raid srry)

 

Oh yeah, no I know the instance, I still feel 22 is a little under-levelled for it, and again, I don't think that is your fault mind you, but (IMO) a Sage has better tools to deal with that situation than a Scoundrel.

[DevonLoy]

Oh yeah, no I know the instance, I still feel 22 is a little under-levelled for it, and again, I don't think that is your fault mind you, but (IMO) a Sage has better tools to deal with that situation than a Scoundrel.

 

I was definetley a little under-leveled for the flashpoint. I had just unlocked it that level but the Guardian drops I got were lvl 25