guided_by_voices Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If your argument is that havign green gear is bad why do you need a DPS meter for this you can easily inspect a player before you have even entered a FP to see his gear. Seems this would be much better than waiting for a fight to look at a dps meter LOVE your SIG! Go for the eyes BOO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydrate Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 People afraid of damage meters are the people who don't (can't) pull the dps required. Nobody is going to kick you for not topping a meter, but if you pug a Flash Point and are doing under 1/2 the dps of the others in the group.... do you honestly think its fair to be in there? Sorry, not everyone wants to play with bads. Those that do won't bother looking at or using the dps metter, and you can group with them. Stop trying to force good players to play with you. Let them be, and they will gladly let you be. The only summation of the anti-damage meter argument is that people want to be able to pull sub-par dps and still be allowed into every group. I really just don't understand this mentality... if you want to be casual and raid with your crazy rotation pulling no dps but looking SUPER cool--fine, get yourself a guild that allows that. Don't expect to be carried through content to the loot pinata--THAT is WoW mentality if I ever saw one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrantos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This is an interesting perspective, and one I somewhat agree with. But do you have any ideas as to what Bioware could feasibly provide other than raid grinds for people who have finished their storylines? Keeping in mind that all signs point to the class storylines being continued in future patches/expansions, that is. Well, I agree that the typical MMO raid/daily/item grind end-game is usually going to keep people around until the next big update. In this sort of MMO, players reach a point where they have maxed out exp/talents/skills/etc... and the most efficient means of providing additional progress is adding better and beefier item sets. However, for a player like myself - the only thing keeping me logged in are the main storylines. Some of the planetwide arcs have been very entertaining as well. Things like crafting, space, pvp, and flashpoints/operations just so happen to be nice "filler" - though none of these things are substantial enough to keep a sub-going indefinitely. As for the "elitism" displayed here... this is typically reserved for guilds - where expectations can be better met and assumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPaq Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 People are joining heroics wearing greens although lvl 49-50 epic items are cheap and plentiful on AH. They get away with it because there are no DPS meters. It's hard to find good people for PUGs. Please add damage meters to the game to improve the quality of players. Then do not pug and go with your guild/friends... If you had any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Which one of those was the problem he had on his last wipe. Nice; people were using live damage parsing back when the top end raid strats were of the order send in the melee and healersonce enough of the melee have died so that you won't lag everyone out, send in the casters. Wrong. The damage meter can tell you that there wasn't enough healing, or if the healers were healing at the wrong time (overhealing), or if they weren't clearing off debuffs quickly enough, etc. The damage meter can tell you if there isn't enough damage, or if the dps weren't all on the right targets.. The damage meter can tell you if the tank is taking too many big hits, or just too much damage in general. It can provide information that a human can use to tell, without doubt, which one of those was the issue. I wasn't there so I can't say. Again if you need a meter to tell you about overhealing or enough DPS then you suck. Damage Meters are the crutch of the bad players. Those who can't pay attention to what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I wasn't there so I can't say. Again if you need a meter to tell you about overhealing or enough DPS then you suck. Damage Meters are the crutch of the bad players. Those who can't pay attention to what is going on. Actually personally for me it have become quite the opposite. Basicly before the rise of MMO's people did play these kind of games solely because it interested them as while paying for it so while doing that while not try to perform atleast adequate ? This was disregarding if it was casuals/ hardcores/normal players why not enjoy youre time and try to play good when you actually do pay for it mentality. (ofcourse i dont say you didnt meet players that sucked but one thing they had in common they always wanted for the most cases to become a better player ) But that sadly aint true anymore people are even now saying that lvling with alot of quests is considered a grind and why performance should be considered a job basicly they want a glorified facebook app. But after experienced alot of those players and realising that people dont want to become better while playing i actually do say that performance meters is these days a must. They bring alot of BS to the table but these days alot of players do that aswell Edited January 16, 2012 by Varghjerta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So you want dps meters to play the blame game? You are the reason they are not needed. Because as a group you should all share in the failure and take it and swallow it. You are just as much to blame in KNOWING as anyone in the group. This is what is wrong with MMO players today, they say they want to group up and that MMO's are social but they do not want to share the failure ONLY the win! I bet you spam dps after every fight too so everyone knows who does what? LOL....just LOL! Sometimes it is one person's fault. That's what you refuse to understand. Have you even done hard modes? Some of the enrage timers are very tight. If one dps was coming in undergeared or unskilled, then it's not the group's fault they're wiping. It's that one guy, and yes, a damage meter to show him proof that he's not pulling his weight would be valuable. Also, why do people keep on saying you need to "unlock" hard modes? I did False Emp and D7 without ever "unlocking" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I wasn't there so I can't say. Again if you need a meter to tell you about overhealing or enough DPS then you suck. Damage Meters are the crutch of the bad players. Those who can't pay attention to what is going on. Untrue. They let the group see if one person is doing spectacularly bad. Conversely, they stop the group from blaming the outsider for wipes. IE, if I get invited to a guild run and it goes poorly, I can use the damage meter to show that no, it's not my dps that's the problem. Additionally, they confirm that you're doing the right thing by allowing you to compare yourself directly to similarly-geared players. If someone else is pulling 10% more than me in similar gear, that tells me I can do more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Untrue. They let the group see if one person is doing spectacularly bad. Conversely, they stop the group from blaming the outsider for wipes. IE, if I get invited to a guild run and it goes poorly, I can use the damage meter to show that no, it's not my dps that's the problem. Additionally, they confirm that you're doing the right thing by allowing you to compare yourself directly to similarly-geared players. If someone else is pulling 10% more than me in similar gear, that tells me I can do more. Good face-rollers use both ears padawan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbleDncr Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 As someone new to MMO's who just recently hit 50, I was lucky enough to join a flashpoint party with someone nice enough to tell me why I was considered under-geared for hard modes and give me advice on what to do to fix the situation. So perhaps if more experienced players were nice and helpful to people who had all green armor, rather than just complaining when they die, they would have less problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsmspiffs Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 People afraid of damage meters are the people who don't (can't) pull the dps required. Nobody is going to kick you for not topping a meter, but if you pug a Flash Point and are doing under 1/2 the dps of the others in the group.... do you honestly think its fair to be in there? Sorry, not everyone wants to play with bads. Those that do won't bother looking at or using the dps metter, and you can group with them. Stop trying to force good players to play with you. Let them be, and they will gladly let you be. The only summation of the anti-damage meter argument is that people want to be able to pull sub-par dps and still be allowed into every group. I really just don't understand this mentality... if you want to be casual and raid with your crazy rotation pulling no dps but looking SUPER cool--fine, get yourself a guild that allows that. Don't expect to be carried through content to the loot pinata--THAT is WoW mentality if I ever saw one. Here is a thought, make some in game friends, play with them. If it is frustrating playing with people who are not as good as you then don't play with PUGs. I've never played WoW, but in every other MMO I have played the lack of a damage meter thing hasn't been an issue. If all you people are doing is saying feature X isn't in MMO Y then, for the love of everything, go to a game that has feature X instead of whining that feature X isn't in game Y. People play MMOs perfectly fine without damage meters. Have played without them for years. They will (hopefully) play without them for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moitteva Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hey Everyone, We appreciate your constructive feedback. We will be closing this thread in the interest of keeping your feedback consolidated and asking you to post in this ongoing discussion about damage meters. Thank you for your understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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