pondz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Strange one this. On my current server, rolled Imps first - but got tired of hutball all the time and having to wait for the wf's to pop, so tried rolling republic on the same server thinking I'd get the full WF rotation and instant pops. The result? Yep, got the full rotation of maps, but also much, much longer waits for warfronts. Also every WF seemed to be against mainly lvl50 Imps - but I know from playing Imps (at the time) there were nowhere near that proportion of 50s I saw playing hutball. All I can think is that firstly there just arn't enough republic Qing for instant pops to happen - and matches that do start are often not full teams (ie those that don't join arn't replaced simply because no-one else is in the queue). - Advantage Imps I got a lot more WF's played on the Imp side (All hutball though) - which meant more practice/valour/pvp experience than the republic were getting (Again - advantage Imps). Seeing all those lvl50 Imps playing against the Republic made me start to think that the matchmaking system prefers to put the relative factions 'best teams' up against each other - leaving the remainder to do hutball with themselves. So the republic always seemed to face the highest lvl/highest valour Imps - Advantage Imps. I also think that most Republics were just trying out PvP rather than seriously wanting to play it. After realising it was hard, most didn't try again - making the Republic team usually consist of a steady stream of lvl10-15s with no PVP experience - Advantage Imps. The Imp regular pvpers started to band together into guilds that like pvp - so the premades are starting to become more common now (many at lvl50). I'm pretty sure there are no republic premades on our server. - Advantage Imps. For my server at least, that's why Republic always loses - and it all started from simply not enough Republicans Queuing. This game has to be the single biggest argument I've seen against 2-faction pvp. Ever. (edit: I'm back on Imps now - simply because of the more frequent pops, even if they are all Hutball) very good post , will be interesting to see when patch 1.1 puts lvl 50's in their own pvp . If you are correct then this explains a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolltar Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 How about the three turrets in civil war? Sure, they do the same "i can click too" no defense move, but they also like to keep hammering the same losing battle over and over as if they enjoy dying repeatedly. They dont think, "gee thats a bonfire, why should I toss my body onto it when it means the other turret must be barely guarded at all!" You mean everybody dogpile center isn't the best way to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmy_DB Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 very good post , will be interesting to see when patch 1.1 puts lvl 50's in their own pvp . If you are correct then this explains a lot. Yup - although I do worry that our server may not have the pvp population to support it (And could mean my 5th re-roll <sigh>). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutem Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Did you know that are 8vs8 most of the time? Where does this faction imbalance come into account? Heres a little math for you, for example lets say there is 60k republic on a server and 120k empire. Also lets say 5% are level 50 from both factions this would put 3k republic lv50s vs 6k empire lv 50s. Lets say 30% of those that are 50 are actively doing pvp, thats 90 republic vs 180 imps. With that said there will be more lv50s on the imp side than republic in warzones. "but those numbers are made up they are not actual stats!!1!11!" Yes those numbers are made up, however on most servers the imps do have a 2:1 ratio or higher. The bottom line is, the more lv 50s on your side in a warzone the greater chance of your side winning (expertise is the IWIN stats when facing low levels). On my server the WZs have had consistently out of the 5 WZs i did last night and average 75% of the imps were 50 (yes different imps each time and same rep), and republic averaged 31.2% lv 50s. This has been a consistant factor in the WZs on my server. While skill does help, its no match for lv 50 gear. Bioware has waited too long to give them their own bracket, lots of 50s have already farmed their pvp gear by face rolling low levels, now fresh 50s will have to face the fully geared. IMO bad job Bioware for rewarding players for skipping content. By shortening queues for the 50s as you did, you discouraged pre50s from doing pvp. Why would a lv 15 queue up to be face rolled by 50s? In the first week of launch Bioware stated(sorry if i am off a % or 2) that 53% wins were imp and 47% were rep. I would be willing to bet that number has changed quite a bit. From my experience you cant bring down 6 geared lv 50s when you only have 2. TL;DR Sorry but faction imbalance does matter, the side with the most 50s win Edited January 16, 2012 by Brutem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Heres a little math for you, for example lets say there is 60k republic on a server and 120k empire. Also lets say 5% are level 50 from both factions this would put 3k republic lv50s vs 6k empire lv 50s. Lets say 30% of those that are 50 are actively doing pvp, thats 90 republic vs 180 imps. With that said there will be more lv50s on the imp side than republic in warzones. "but those numbers are made up they are not actual stats!!1!11!" Yes those numbers are made up, however on most servers the imps do have a 2:1 ratio or higher. The bottom line is, the more lv 50s on your side in a warzone the greater chance of your side winning (expertise is the IWIN stats when facing low levels). On my server the WZs have had consistently out of the 5 WZs i did last night and average 75% of the imps were 50 (yes different imps each time and same rep), and republic averaged 31.2% lv 50s. This has been a consistant factor in the WZs on my server. While skill does help, its no match for lv 50 gear. Bioware has waited too long to give them their own bracket, lots of 50s have already farmed their pvp gear by face rolling low levels, now fresh 50s will have to face the fully geared. IMO bad job Bioware for rewarding players for skipping content. By shortening queues for the 50s as you did, you discouraged pre50s from doing pvp. Why would a lv 15 queue up to be face rolled by 50s? In the first week of launch Bioware stated(sorry if i am off a % or 2) that 53% wins were imp and 47% were rep. I would be willing to bet that number has changed quite a bit. From my experience you cant bring down 6 geared lv 50s when you only have 2. TL;DR Sorry but faction imbalance does matter, the side with the most 50s win another good post explaining imbalance . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Another thing i noticed about population imbalance is that it is more difficult to get groups for flashpoints etc as republic , which means that the Imps lvl 50's running hard modes find it easier to get groups meaning they will find it easier to get top gear , again adding to pvp imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grmp Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'd like to know why Republic rarely wins pvp? I'm on server Zaalbar and have only won a few games of pvp in my SWTOR career. I am only lvl 22 so my lack of skill (which is what your about to start flaming about) shouldn't effect the team in a tremendous way. I've noticed other people complaining about this same topic which leads me to believe there will most likely be some form of a balance patch. Also what the hell do i have lvl 50's on my team for? This game has a awkward pvp style... I just keep getting yelled at by lvl 50's telling me i suck because I am level 22 and I am not doing as much damage as them. Its your server on our server republic wins most of the time so go QQ some where else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Its your server on our server republic wins most of the time so go QQ some where else ofcoarse with some 200 odd servers there has to be the odd couple where republic win. Edited January 16, 2012 by pondz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grmp Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ofcoarse with some 200 odd servers there has to be the odd couple where empire win. Fixed that for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrocanis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So you say Imps win because we got battlemaster and you only get champion gear? Even if this would be true, its rather pathetic. You win because you play better not because you got +2 strength, warzones are about organization and teamplay, not dps and gearscore... Are you this naive? No. He's saying you get it faster. Much. And that further imbalances the WZ. And that this imbalance results such that the Rebs that play are demoralized. Because they lose to 50s and gear more slowly it increases the effect of faction imbalance, thus perpetuating the cycle. A wobbly wheel doesn't get better - it simply gets wobblier until the axle breaks or the tire goes flat. To the Rebs, the tire is flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutem Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Its your server on our server republic wins most of the time so go QQ some where else On MOST servers Imps win more, however there are probably a few in which the win/loss ratio is swapped. A quote from Gabe Amatangelo (Principal Lead PvP, Operations & Flashpoints Designer) "In the first week after launch there were over a million Warzone matches played, with nearly half of all players participating in Warzones. Bad news for Republic players, though - the Empire currently leads overall, having won 53% of all Alderaan Civil War and Voidstar matches (across all servers). Huttball has been played the most, accounting for 39% of all matches – and yes, we’ll be adding a new same faction vs. same faction enabled Warzone in the future." found at : http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neocoma Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Several reasons might come into mind. One might be that reps are hopelessly outnumbered and always start a warzone with only 6 people. big advantage for imps. others are: quitting. There is no penatly for quitting and even I quit the game when I see we have hard times and tend to lose. Why? because my daily wants me to win 3 times, sometimes dailies are bugged and wins dont count and as I dont have 24hrs to play I quit warzones which we dont win. This I do only when I need the wins. Besides, we reps nearly have instant invites ...so there's no point in not quitting. Apart from taht I win almost 80% of my warzones. Dont know what you people struggle with but our Reps mostly pwn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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