Nugens Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ask me anything about watchman pvp and ill answer everything i can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halojinix Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 What makes Watchman the best PVP tree for you? Have you tried focus or combat? How do you deal with being chain cc'd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugens Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 I find watchman's sheer shredding ability just unstoppable.You will get your big numbers from merc slash and your burns will just annihilate players in seconds. Watchman healing is also insane atm and hopefully it wont change.You can easily get your 75k healing medal just from the crit burns you get. The reduced cooldown on your kick ability is so good.i cant stress enough how awesome that ability is. As far as being chain cc'ed is concerned, What i have found to be the best option is to learn the difference between a "ROOT" and a"STUN" .When you can tell the difference between the two different affect use your resolve on stuns only and tank through the roots with your rebuke and saberward try spread these out aswell.dont just pop everything at once and be left with your pants down for the rest of the fight. There is flaws with the resolve system atm.nothing we can do about it.But with guarded by the force aswell.generally dont have to big of an issue with being cc'ed and dieing from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelyn Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 What is your dmg like when you get your dot effects dispelled? Can you still put some pressure out or you're transformed in a minor nuisance waddling around posing no threat? This is a serious question, regarding high end pvp play, where any healer worth it's salt will dispell the target you are attacking of debuffs / dots etc. The melting someone randomly who is not paying attention or has no support from his team is really irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugens Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Really good question.I usually have this problem when i come across good shadow players or double premades"since theres no rated bgs atm"if you are comming across people who are dispelling etc.try use valorous call and pop inspiration for the extra damage boost and focus more on useing all your interupts .awe.choke kick. start using slash's and merc slash's.I dont think that even with dispells on dots that sent will ever be a "minor threat"Also i dont know if you have any expereince playing rbgs in wow or anything.but switches are very common.so it a healer starts dispelling himself you can call a switch to a new target and have your and just focus interupt on the healer.Remember in high end pvp you wont be alone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugens Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 Also as a sent.your like the only class with a healing debuff.so you will be making the calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McVade Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'll bite: 1. Do you notice ability stuttering? If so, how do you deal with it. To me, that's the most frustrating part of playing a Jedi Sentinel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renlotho Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Hi there thanks for starting this thread. I have some sent PvP questions. What do you average for damage? I find that I have trouble getting higher than third if there are level 50 smuggler DPS specs whether scoundrel or gunslinger. Same with DPS sage or commandos. Is that your experience? I chalk that up to squishiness and aoes from those classes. For disclosures sake I JUST hit 50 and just got tier two PVE pieces columi chest, gloves and boots. I have 2x centurions weaponmasters package and two sub 50 weapons with 25 and 17 expertise for about 3%. Roughly 1230 str and 130ish power. I've been very disappointed with damage output in wz's. I just switched watchman to focus and have yet to use in PvP but was told you can crit to 4kish on sweep. I think my record is around 185k DMG and 50 kills. I haven't done much wz since gear but noticed much better survivability but meh DMG increase. I'm not great about trinket and overcharge use do you think that is my problem? I also found the stutter on merc slash to be almost unusable in most wz situations. I only use on casters now bh, sorc and sniper do to them standing still. Even there I get the stutter. Any advice on maxing out DMG rotations? When specced WM I would jump, slow, zealous, overload, slash or merc slash reapply slow cauterize. I also think I'm a bit inefficient on the centering abilities. I have gotten good at using stasis to bring folks within dispatch range which is a nice combo. Just not sure how to boost my damage. Thanks in advance! Edited January 15, 2012 by Renlotho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErisktheRed Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 1. Your stats and gear? Obviously str is always 1, end is important esp in PVP, but Crit/Surge/Pwr/Accuracy... 2. Inflammation? You go for steadfast or focused leap? Or instead points into Pursuit or Fade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugens Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 @mcvade-Yes i do get shuttering.and Yes it is very annoying and i have found no way to get around this other then taking that extra second to slow down and try not to spam.and yes it is most frustrating.But according to bioware they are hoping to fix this is the upcoming months. @Renlotho. i played focus for awhile and it was a lot of fun.not as effective as watchman but fun. As far as a rotation is concerned obviously different in every situation but heres how it goes"generally" Force Leap-"overload saber in mid air"(get the focused leap talent in the combat tree)-Zealous strike-Cauterize( i spec for Inflammation)( i spec for inflammation because its 2 abilities in 1.i get damage and slow.i played without it for awhile but its a fantastic talent and i recommend it to everyone)-Strike-merc slash. pretty basic stuff... Make sure your dots and always ticking.using cauterize on cooldown along with merc slash. and use slash's in between to burn excess focus. As far as my damage is concerned it really depends on the situation/role/warzone i am in. I will always pull out 300-400k damage at least in a voidstar. This wasn't always the case btw from what ive seen this class's damage scales pretty well with gear.im wearing all battlemaster/champion gear "EXCEPT THE CENTURION HEAD THANKS RNG BAGS" but when i just hit 50 my damage was roughly half that.or to the same damage as you claim to be doing now. As far as how well i do on the damage meter. Im usually top and if im not.a team mate is. Generally a commando. As a sentinel its your job to be a pain in the *** to healers and the squishy dpsers. So if your being out dps'ed by smugglers and sages try take them down a notch yourself instead of letting them free cast...if they are left free cast they WIll out dps you. Hope that answered your question.i tend to ramble.get back to me if it doesnt. @ErisktheRed-I kinda answered your questions in the above section.But i got 4 peices of battlemaster and the rest of my gear is champion and the god dam centurion headpiece which i cant get rid of... as for relics i use the m7-g0 matrix cube and the lightside 5 stam and crit/surge trinket.I know some sents say use power over surge.But the reason i do this is At the start of a warzone i like to "strike fear" into the enemy. by using your zen ability your dots are going to crit. so i use the surge trinket to get my dots to completely shred the first person i lock onto and make sure hes dead within the first 10 seconds. As far as my spec is concerned heres a link of the spec i use.any questions about it feel free to ask why i chose what i chose http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIrRrR0cGzZGhb.1 If i didnt answer anyones question well enough ask me again and ill try to be more specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derewen Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Try this one, you miss 2 core talents http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIrRrRMcGzZRRb.1 Defensive forms - your centering is built so ******* fast with Jedi crusuader and Valor, so you can use your Zen for crit more often + it gives some defense Close quarters - seriously, you need it...its 4 more focus each 12 seconds without getting away from opponents like mercenarys + its so comfortable...and you for sure know enemies that are getting closer to you when you are trying to get away on 10m, aint I right? Offhand isn't good stat and with battlemaster you can miss 2% accu. Try it, I think you won't be dissapointed, atleast for me when I am on watchman it works pretty well (you maybe don't have these cause of few "things", but if you add and subctract, its worth in my opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugens Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ive seen a few people Use this spec and it is a pretty solid spec.i think it just boils down to preference.You can also take stagger from the focus tree aswell.just what ever style of play you prefer.i have used your proposed spec before and it really is a good spec.Hopefully other people can check it out aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm in shock that I just saw 2 watchman PVP-orientated builds lacking Force Fade. Once you get used to having it it's absolutely amazing. Also, Jedi Crusader? Really? When is Watchman ever focus-starved? I'm currently using: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_knight/sentinel/#::fdfef2ef13e6fe8fe3f20: I'm not sold on Inflammation and I'm considering taking those two points and moving them back to Combat Roll/Focused Pursuit. Most people are pretty bad at kiting, so with the shortened CD/min range on leap I rarely stay out of range for a full GCD. Focused Pursuit is excessively underrated as the tooltip is misleading, it increases the entire group's buff from Transcendence rather than just the Sentinel's as the tooltip would seem to suggest. I also agree that 2-3% accuracy is a waste of talent points for Watchman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugens Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I can see the appeal of force fade although i still dont like it. I just dont see the need for it. Also.while in force camo your invisable so your only going to be taking either damage from dots or aoe.If you have 100% less damage from force camo why take the extra 15% less aoe damage from defensive roll?.If you find yourself in that much trouble you prob over extended to far to begin with. And the joy of playing watchman is that we have so many ways to build focus. If your being kited and you have dots on your target and you have rebuke up.by the time you get back on your target you can have like 5+ focus.saves you time strike spamming or zealous strike and get straight into serious pressure.thats another reason why i love inflammation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imrageth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 OK so I am 50 sentinel experimenting with tree. Started as half watchmen/combat, then switched to full combat but I want to try watchman. Please tell me whats your top single pvp hit.. I would like to see if top hits are better than combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I can see the appeal of force fade although i still dont like it. I just dont see the need for it. Also.while in force camo your invisable so your only going to be taking either damage from dots or aoe.If you have 100% less damage from force camo why take the extra 15% less aoe damage from defensive roll?.If you find yourself in that much trouble you prob over extended to far to begin with. And the joy of playing watchman is that we have so many ways to build focus. If your being kited and you have dots on your target and you have rebuke up.by the time you get back on your target you can have like 5+ focus.saves you time strike spamming or zealous strike and get straight into serious pressure.thats another reason why i love inflammation. Well that is basically EXACTLY why you take the 100% immune. Aoe and dots break stealth. you take it, so they dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugens Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 My top single hit was with a merc slash and it was for 5.6k.that was rare though.average at 4.1-4.4k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imrageth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 oh thats amazing. I can do 2500 but never 3-4k. How is it possible? Is it due to spec or maybe lack of datacrons on my side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derewen Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm in shock that I just saw 2 watchman PVP-orientated builds lacking Force Fade. Once you get used to having it it's absolutely amazing. Also, Jedi Crusader? Really? When is Watchman ever focus-starved? I'm currently using: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_knight/sentinel/#::fdfef2ef13e6fe8fe3f20: I'm not sold on Inflammation and I'm considering taking those two points and moving them back to Combat Roll/Focused Pursuit. Most people are pretty bad at kiting, so with the shortened CD/min range on leap I rarely stay out of range for a full GCD. Focused Pursuit is excessively underrated as the tooltip is misleading, it increases the entire group's buff from Transcendence rather than just the Sentinel's as the tooltip would seem to suggest. I also agree that 2-3% accuracy is a waste of talent points for Watchman. And I do not get point in getting those, although I was wondering about Force Fade, but its waste, whenever I use camouflage I just do not die, that's a fact. And from when is it focus starved? Well, if you are not without focus here, you do something wrong then, watchman is atm the most "focus-starving" build, atleast for me, cause I am here to do damage, and do it a lot and in shortest time, not just run around while healers are happily healing. And also no Focused Leap, dude, I really don't know, but tell me how are you doing it(defensive roll - really?)...Have you ever tried to count focus needed to do all the skills in watchman(even getting back 1 focus talent from skills ain't enough)? And consider the shorter cooldown on merciles slash(stacking) + reseting cauterize...If I wouldn't miss focus here, at the first place I would take a recompense, but there is not a focus to do all the skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Well that is basically EXACTLY why you take the 100% immune. Aoe and dots break stealth. you take it, so they dont. They don't break stealth anymore. Haven't since the end of November. Reason I take it is that it is basically a second Guarded by the Force and I can use it to give my healer plenty of time to heal me back if I get spiked down. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've survived with <5% health due to Force Fade. And yes, I "overextend" somewhat frequently, because the greatest strength of Watchman is that we're unrivaled in our solo-ability. No other class can legitimately win a 3v1 against equally geared players on a remotely regular basis, so using a Watchman as a "distraction" to take heat off of elsewhere is a great strategy. If I occupy 3 of them, my team only has to deal with 5. Force Fade buys me time for other cooldowns like rebuke or my medpac to come back up and it ignores any damage I had on me. Especially fighting Juyo Marauders or Madness Sorcs/Assassins it's invaluable. As for Defensive Roll, some targeted AoEs tick for ~1000 a second, Rage spec Juggernauts can hit 6k AoEs. Taking 15/30% off that has far more value than y'all give it credit for. Less damage you're taking the more effective your passive self healing is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugens Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 What your saying is your devoting precious talent points do reduce aoe damage from a tank class ?Your spec is needlessly defensive and because of it you are severely reducing your focus gain and in turn reducing your dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) What your saying is your devoting precious talent points do reduce aoe damage from a tank class ?Your spec is needlessly defensive and because of it you are severely reducing your focus gain and in turn reducing your dps. Surviving longer = more damage dealt. Focused Leap I can understand, but Jedi Crusader is excessive. If it wasn't limited to every other GCD, I'd use it. But at every other GCD, it is only solid when you're being kited, and if you're being successfully kited for longer than 2 GCDs, you've made a mistake. In beta, I went months not taking Force Fade thinking it was too situational, a guild mate insisted that I try it and actually give it a fair chance. It's now a critical talent for me. I'd more readily give up Inflammation than Force Fade, as the latter does far more for me. Also @Derewen, I'm not sure how you'd pass up 3 points in DW Mastery, it's a 15% damage boost to Merc Slash and a 10% boost to Slash (seriously, just look at the tooltip). Yeah, you've only got 67-75% accuracy for offhand, but it's used more often than the extra focus gain from Crusader or Focused Leap. Edited January 16, 2012 by Apocalypse- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imrageth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ok question to both of you. Whats better in your opinion : jedi crusader or defensive force ability? I am coming up with a tree for myself and cant decide which would be better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Ok question to both of you. Whats better in your opinion : jedi crusader or defensive force ability? I am coming up with a tree for myself and cant decide which would be better... I'm assuming by Defensive "Force" you mean Defensive Forms? Defensive forms is increased centering generation, and an amazing talent. I'm not a fan of Jedi Crusader at all. I'd much MUCH rather have the talent that Crusader replaced, it used to spread Cauterize to all targets hit by Force Sweep. And that was back when it was a 15s dot. It was amazing. Edited January 16, 2012 by Apocalypse- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imrageth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Yeah, of course i meant forms not force. Sorry for typo and thanks for info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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