Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Lethality]

Your changing your ADVANCED class, not class. People want to be able to go from Vanguard to Commando, not Trooper to JEDI.

 

As for your comment on making the forums/game a better place if 'we' accept your opinion on this matter, sorry m8 I pay my €€€ to play this great game and if I can get this idea implemented I will.

 

Not meant in anyway way to be agressive or a personal attack type comment toward you m8.

 

You missed what I said. Forget BioWare called the thing you do as character creation "class". The fact is, you're picking your story. That's it.

 

Check your guild window. What kind of information do you see under the "class" column? This is in game info!

 

In traditional MMOs, classes are defined by a set of conditions and constraints assigned to a given character. These classes are differentiated by the ability to:

 

• wield different weapons
  
• wear different armor
  
• use different abilities
  
• perform different roles
  

 

All of these attributes are found in the Advanced Class system of Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

In Star Wars: The Old Republic:

Advanced Classes = Classes

Classes = Stories

 

If you rolled a warrior in another game and wanted to be a mage instead, you wouldn't be allowed to switch. That's what you are asking for here.

 

Advanced classes ARE classes in TOR.

[Sapphix]

I'm sorry if you regret your advancement choice but the game would seriously lose integrity for me if they allowed us to switch our advanced class.

[Heggs]

We could argue semantics and/or terminology all day.

Let’s agree on this, I like this idea and I hope it’s implemented. You don’t like it and don’t want it.

[Heggs]

I'm sorry if you regret your advancement choice but the game would seriously lose integrity for me if they allowed us to switch our advanced class.

 

Why ?

I mean that in a genuine way. Why would one players ability to re-roll his AC choice affect you in any way ? Im asking out of genuine interest in your opinion.

[Hidden]

The advanced class is basically your class. Would you be able to re-spec Warrior to Paladin? I didn't think so.

 

I don't see the issue, why do you need 6 feat trees and access to so many builds? I know you might think why not, but imo choices should matter. If you choose Marauder for example it's pure DPS and that's the risk you take in choosing it.

 

Apart from two advanced classes nearly all of them have two roles, very few modern MMOs allow for so much choice. Perhaps I'm old fashioned but I like that you have to make a choice with the awareness that you can't be everything, it makes you seem more unique and the choice more important.

 

I know for alot that's un-needed, and I can understand the counter arguments, but I just always liked it this way.

 

TH

[Blackardin]

ONE TIME respect of AC, for those that may have chosen the wrong class in a new game where limited information was available. Allow them to respect rather then start over.

 

Respect within the three trees will help players, help the game, but AC is a class choice, not a skill choice. Respect of AC will not help the game.

[JasonSavo]

Why ?

I mean that in a genuine way. Why would one players ability to re-roll his AC choice affect you in any way ? Im asking out of genuine interest in your opinion.

 

Because it doesn't make any sense. Gunslingers are going to all of a sudden drop 75% of their abilities to reroll into another AC, for what? They are 2 completely different classes, would you advocate a Mage dropping all of his abilities to reroll into a Rogue in WoW? Of course you wouldn't, it's dumb.

 

And I don't necessarily blame you for thinking it's just semantics, I blame Bioware. They should have just called each of them what they were, STORIES AND PROFESSIONS. Smuggler is your STORY, Gunslinger is your PROFESSION. It should have been like that at lvl 1, not lvl 10.

Edited January 22, 2012 by JasonSavo

[Backbones]

Why ?

I mean that in a genuine way. Why would one players ability to re-roll his AC choice affect you in any way ? Im asking out of genuine interest in your opinion.

 

Doubles the number of A and B class population on a server. If every level 50 Vanguard is also a level 50 Commando, the demand for both of them decreases as the supply doubles. Playing a less common class (say, Vanguard, or Guardian) is no longer a viable strategy for making yourself a commodity.

 

Also, there's the fact that you'll have to put up with people who decided to change their class at level 50 and don't know how to play, did not have the regular, paced development that comes with leveling -- remember, for games with a focus on end-game content, the leveling process is the time during which you learn how to play your class (and some people can't even figure it out with 85 levels played to do so); by offering class respecs, you're going to increase the population of people who have no idea what they're doing causing problems in group situations. Instead of the gentle slope provided by the handful-of-powers-per-level approach, you'll be seeing people with a couple dozen (or whatever # of powers come from the advanced class) abilities that they don't know how to use, and a bunch of familiar powers that no longer function in the context in which they are familiar.

 

tl;dr : class respecs would in fact directly affect other people in the game, unless those same people taking respecs never played in group situations.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Backbones

[LastDarkness]

No

 

I dont want the ability to choose a differant advanced class.

[Sapphix]

Why ?

I mean that in a genuine way. Why would one players ability to re-roll his AC choice affect you in any way ? Im asking out of genuine interest in your opinion.

 

I'm not trying to take something away from you but it goes against the way the game is designed. If I asked bioware for a free level 50 character, it wouldn't effect you at first but if they just gave everyone free 50's it would degrade the integrity of the game. If they give on this, what's next?!

 

If you want to know why I don't think people should be able to switch, it's because advanced classes are too different. It's seriously like switching between a healer and a warrior (gaining 2 different skill trees). Advanced classes are traditional classes in design, representation and play style. Just because they share the generic title 'class' does not make them interchangeable.

[Jackobite]

I dont care what other games do.

 

In this game I could never support a class change, We are given the warning, its an important choice less not trivialise it.

[Heggs]

From my perspective I am only in favour of an AC change ONE time below lvl21. Thats it.

 

And the reason I would like that option basically comes down to personal choice, If I feel like I made a mistake in AC choice because of gameplay, I just want the option to try the other AC of the same class/storyline without redoing the same 10/15 starting levels regardless on how quick they can be done.

 

To me this isn't gamebreaking either way. Same thing for the add-on debate. I just always like options and I value RL time more than anything.

 

Its all good anyway, this game rocks.

[Backbones]

Also, people whose sole reason for denying class changes is "I want other people to suffer for making a decision they're unhappy with" are doing it wrong.

 

There are good reasons for denying class changes. "DEAL WITH IT!" isn't one of them.

 

I mean, it is annoying that you are essentially presented with a 2-3 hour character creation process before deciding your class. In most any other MMO, if I hate my class after two or three hours, it's because I've gotten at least some semblance of what my class will be like in practice; in The Old Republic, this isn't the case, and by the time I've had the chance to see what my class is like in practice, I'll be more like ~6-7 hours invested.

 

 

Letting people just skip the first 10 levels of a class they've already played to the Fleet/class selection guy would be an easier way to handle this than allowing respecs.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Backbones

[Sapphix]

From my perspective I am only in favour of an AC change ONE time below lvl21. Thats it.

 

And the reason I would like that option basically comes down to personal choice, If I feel like I made a mistake in AC choice because of gameplay, I just want the option to try the other AC of the same class/storyline without redoing the same 10/15 starting levels regardless on how quick they can be done.

 

To me this isn't gamebreaking either way. Same thing for the add-on debate. I just always like options and I value RL time more than anything.

 

Its all good anyway, this game rocks.

 

This game does rock. I would almost support a free level 10 of the same class (maybe even level 20 or 30) when you reach level 40-50. Partly because you've done the story already and I thought that feature was kinda cool in other games.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Sapphix

[Zachajariah]

I don't support AC changes at all.

 

My main is a Jedi shadow right now, but my raiding main will be my sage. The only thing that sucks is I am choosing the same for both; counselor. Which means same class story

[Consiga]

There's a reason that Blizzard hasn't offered a "class change" service in WoW, even though they offer faction change, realm change, race change, name change, and appearance change services..

 

In WoW, Paladins were a class where advancing down a specific path literally changed your entire role and gameplay -- you could be a main tank, main DPS, or main healer. Other classes didn't have this wide of a choice, but you could SWITCH TO ANYTHING YOUR CLASS had available.

 

 

I'd apply the same logic to this game. If you want to play a Guardian, level one. If you want to play a Sentinel, level one. Etc

 

Am I expected to play through the entire BH story line again because I want to go Powertech instead of Mercenary? When an expansion pack comes out in a year and I've been a 50 Merc for a year -- maybe I'd want to switch it up and be a tank for this new expansion pack. Am I / should I really be expected to play through to level cap with the same class again because I want to play a different AC??

 

If the story was different per Adv Class I would 100% agree "NO AC CHANGES" -- but these are indeed "Advanced" classes, that build upon the actual class of "Bounty Hunter", "Sith Warrior", or "Smuggler". Allowing a Adv Class respec is logical (even taking WoW as an example out of the mix).

 

Maybe make it really expensive. Make it a quest. Make it on a weekly or monthly CD so people don't / can't swap ACs so easily if "class balance" is that big of a concern, but at least allow us the option. Really, I see no reason to not allow this.

 

 

PS: Please do not suggest to "just go play your class equivalent on the opposing faction side if you wanna be a different AC". That argument/statement misses the entire point I'm attempting to make.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Consiga

[Rigo]

Having now gone through 1-50. I just don't see how not having all six talent trees available. I didn't notice a big difference between the story.

 

I think the AC design sounded better in design for 2006 then it does for 2012. MMOs have evolved alot since the development started on SWTOR.

 

If anything this gives more people the options to fill more roles. If this was implemented it wouldn't break the game really. Now on a technical side there might be some limitations. But I would be pretty disappointed that BW wouldn't have given themselves flexibilty to adjust and change this feature.

[Consiga]

Try playing the game they call it a class in-game that trumps anything that they said way before the game launched:p

 

If Advanced Classes were truly a class in their own right then they'd remove the [CLASS] [ADVANCED CLASS] tabs from your skill trainer and just have the one option being your AC.

 

As I see it and as it is in-game, the skills I buy are separated for a reason: one is my class, denoted by the [sITH WARRIOR] tab, and two is the specialized (advanced) class skills, denoted by a [JUGGERNAUT] tab.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Consiga

[Zachajariah]

In WoW, Paladins were a class where advancing down a specific path literally changed your entire role and gameplay -- you could be a main tank, main DPS, or main healer. Other classes didn't have this wide of a choice, but you could SWITCH TO ANYTHING YOUR CLASS had available.

 

 

 

 

Am I expected to play through the entire BH story line again because I want to go Powertech instead of Mercenary? When an expansion pack comes out in a year and I've been a 50 Merc for a year -- maybe I'd want to switch it up and be a tank for this new expansion pack. Am I / should I really be expected to play through to level cap with the same class again because I want to play a different AC??

 

If the story was different per Adv Class I would 100% agree "NO AC CHANGES" -- but these are indeed "Advanced" classes, that build upon the actual class of "Bounty Hunter", "Sith Warrior", or "Smuggler". Allowing a Adv Class respec is logical (even taking WoW as an example out of the mix).

 

Maybe make it really expensive. Make it a quest. Make it on a weekly or monthly CD so people don't / can't swap ACs so easily if "class balance" is that big of a concern, but at least allow us the option. Really, I see no reason to not allow this.

 

 

PS: Please do not suggest to "just go play your class equivalent on the opposing faction side if you wanna be a different AC". That argument/statement misses the entire point I'm attempting to make.

 

You're trying to use paladins as argument?

 

In SWTOR they do in fact have this option:

1. My Jedi shadow can be a tank, and I can respec to do 2 different types of DPS.

 

2. My Jedi sage can be a healer, and I can respec to be a Mage type class.

 

3. My smuggler can be a gunslinger, or I can respec to heal on this class just like my sage.

 

How is this ANY different than your paladin association? One thing I would argue is cheaper respec costs.

[Consiga]

I say go for it and charge people 30 dollars a pop to do it.

Let Bioware make more money out of people unwilling/able to reroll.

 

I'm ok with that.

[Consiga]

You're trying to use paladins as argument?

 

In SWTOR they do in fact have this option:

1. My Jedi shadow can be a tank, and I can respec to do 2 different types of DPS.

 

2. My Jedi sage can be a healer, and I can respec to be a Mage type class.

 

3. My smuggler can be a gunslinger, or I can respec to heal on this class just like my sage.

 

How is this ANY different than your paladin association? One thing I would argue is cheaper respec costs.

 

Sir, I'm using the the Paladin as a general example of how one class can change their role/gameplay to fill every role in the game. This is what a good part of the whole "let us change AC, no don't let us change AC" discussion is about.

 

The examples you listed do not fill every role as the example I chose does (in essence what allowing AC changes would give us). That example was also used to show that it's not game-breaking, it has been done, and wouldn't ruin class balance on a server.

[Backbones]

there are two classes in WoW that have three roles, therefore class-switching in TOR!

 

wait...

[Dan_McMan]

It is just jerking players around not to have this feature. In every other MMO, you pick your class and you start to get the feel for it from the get-go. The idea here is that you can't get the feel for your class until at least level 20 and when you find out it's not what you expected, it's too late to change for players who don't have an endless well of free time. It's just not fair to players.

 

To those saying "your advanced class is your class," yes that's true... but normally you pick your class at level 1... not 10.

[Matteuz]

Why are you naysayers assuming that the change would be available to high level characters? When you get the choice IN-GAME you are kind of perplexed, you have two boxes of descriptions and the talent tree to look at and hopefully make the right choice, if you get to "test-drive" said class a few levels it wouldn't be so bad, in other games you get to test drive them from level 1 and see if you like them or not, here you don't get to do that until you invested a couple of hours into your character, that's what complicates things.

[Sabarok]

The entire concept of Advanced Class and choosing it at level 10 is something I've not seen before in an MMO, so it's hard to try and compare to other MMOs. They are also fairly unique in the entire concept of a "class quest" that is tied to their base class. Most other MMOs will have their 8-16 classes sharing a single storyline. "They have the same story" is not a valid reason for those MMOs to allow class respecs and I don't see it as being any more vaild here. SWTOR has 16 classes (with 8 of them mirrors of each other) sharing 8 stories. In any other MMO, your AC would be chosen at character creation. Bioware moved it to level 10. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.

 

Most of the pro- posts seem to be to be trying to twist the definitions of words and features to somehow justify that their idea is the way it's "supposed" to be.

 

The advance class defines both the talent tree and a unique set of abilities, which account for about 2/3rds of the class. Even though the talent trees allow for specialization in a specific role, the advance class determines the roles the character can fill. A DPS specced Sorc can still fulfill the role of a healer, but an assassin can't. 1/3rd of the two ACs are the same, but the rest is unique and shouldn't be interchangeable.

 

I am against the idea because I believe that this would dilute the variety of options and diminish the value of the AC. I wouldn't want players with level 50s to be able to roll new level 50 characters for similar reasons, even though 90% of the quests are the same between all characters on the same faction and they also share some of the same racial options.

 

On another note, I have noticed that some classes will make somewhat clear that their AC choice is permanent, but some classes aren't so clear. Work should be done to make sure that the permanency of the AC choice is made clear to all players, possibly even by having a confirmation window reminding the player that it's a permanent choice.