Maigrey Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 good and evil need not apply its light side vs dark side - honestly its kind of selfish really either way you slice it "as long as I dont personally have to take a life, i'm good" just to let you know, I got Light side points for killing someone on my BH class quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Well, what do you mean by 'apply'? Given that there is no penalty for being light side or dark side in the game (beyond the colour of your weapon) then it doesn't really apply to force users either. Which is fine, because I want my 'dark jedi' to be able to go 'searching for power' so that he can fight evil more effectively. True. Specifically, there should be merit to neutral choice. I guess the only way it applies in game is gear. I have no incentive to stay "gray". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdatik Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) A brilliant debate which I would love to partake in, but I don't think this is the place for it. Shame too. lol. That's what I enjoy about my philosophy classes. We talk / debate and no one gets their feelings hurt because we realize that it's simply our opinion. just to let you know, I got Light side points for killing someone on my BH class quests. I said that earlier and was ignored. Edited January 13, 2012 by Bdatik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't mean to be a grammar nazi, but "amoral" and "immoral" are two VERY different things. Indeed. Thanks you-- immoral is what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastodonic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think everyone has focused on the act itself as opposed to the motivation behind the act. It's the emotions that drive the act and because you did something "darkside" it doesn't MAKE you darkside, it's a step TOWARDS the darkside. In the original point the question is not "why was killing a bad man a bad thing" it should be "why did i want to kill him?". Was it vengeance, anger, did you HATE him for being such murderous scum. All emotions that when not kept in check, lead you towards the darkside. It's not a switch thats flicked at every dialogue option. I chose darkside, **** now im evil. Next quest, i chose light side. Sweet, now im an angel. You see someone standing around and you just cut him down. Bam, he's dead, that's darkside points for you. But not because you killed him, but because of why you killed him. The why is not "you're evil" the why is power. You had power over him, you had the ability to and you had a choice. For your own SELFISH and self-indulgent reasons, you committed the crime. Those personality traits feed on or lead towards the darkside. Motivations and emotions dictating those motivations are the difference between light and darkside. Actions not so much. And that's why Darth Vadar and the Emperor can be considered evil. Because the accumulation of the totality of all their actions have led them so far into the darkside that it is now inherent in their nature. But it wasn't a single act. I hope i made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think everyone has focused on the act itself as opposed to the motivation behind the act. It's the emotions that drive the act and because you did something "darkside" it doesn't MAKE you darkside, it's a step TOWARDS the darkside. In the original point the question is not "why was killing a bad man a bad thing" it should be "why did i want to kill him?". Was it vengeance, anger, did you HATE him for being such murderous scum. All emotions that when not kept in check, lead you towards the darkside. It's not a switch thats flicked at every dialogue option. I chose darkside, **** now im evil. Next quest, i chose light side. Sweet, now im an angel. You see someone standing around and you just cut him down. Bam, he's dead, that's darkside points for you. But not because you killed him, but because of why you killed him. The why is not "you're evil" the why is power. You had power over him, you had the ability to and you had a choice. For your own SELFISH and self-indulgent reasons, you committed the crime. Those personality traits feed on or lead towards the darkside. Motivations and emotions dictating those motivations are the difference between light and darkside. Actions not so much. And that's why Darth Vadar and the Emperor can be considered evil. Because the accumulation of the totality of all their actions have led them so far into the darkside that it is now inherent in their nature. But it wasn't a single act. I hope i made sense. Good thoughts. How would the dark side treat a raving lunatic without cognizant perception of good and evil who continually murders people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastodonic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Good thoughts. How would the dark side treat a raving lunatic without cognizant perception of good and evil who continually murders people? The dark side would use him to murder enemies of the empire/republic. That would be darkside i guess. Or you could kill him and depending on the why, it may not be either light nor dark. There is still a middle ground. Remember this is a narrated game and every scenario has context. The scenarios people are coming up with on this forum to justify one side or the other are usually lacking context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The dark side would use him to murder enemies of the empire/republic. That would be darkside i guess. Or you could kill him and depending on the why, it may not be either light nor dark. There is still a middle ground. Remember this is a narrated game and every scenario has context. The scenarios people are coming up with on this forum to justify one side or the other are usually lacking context. But his intent may not come from an evil place if he is mentally incompetent. My point is that the dark side and light side don't get ruled by intent. At least they don't in my opinion. But you second point-- listed above-- I do agree with. The dark side would chew him up and spit him out. The dark side reminds me of like a Christian idea of a demon. Something that will take you over and use you for its on use. In most cases the killing of light side Jedis and the thwarting of freedom and liberty. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aweus Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're saying the government is evil for executing serial killers? I'm the government (trooper) and I just executed a serial killer who will certainly keep doing it. It's the same thing. Letting him go when I had the chance to stop him would mean I indirectly murdered hundreds. That is the death penalty debate from RL all over again. There is no one true answer to this. I am against death penalty. You are perhaps supporting it. Both opinions are subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 That is the death penalty debate from RL all over again. There is no one true answer to this. I am against death penalty. You are perhaps supporting it. Both opinions are subjective. As am I. Putting on a costume and calling yourself a trooper doesn't change the morality of your decision to kill someone. Troopers and governments are just concepts. Only people exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastodonic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're saying the government is evil for executing serial killers? I'm the government (trooper) and I just executed a serial killer who will certainly keep doing it. It's the same thing. Letting him go when I had the chance to stop him would mean I indirectly murdered hundreds. And this is an example of not understanding the why of a situation. You're so hung up on his previous behavior and your own actions and your self-perceived justification for that action you're having a hard time understanding what darkside and lightside means and what getting those points means. Without the whole quest and the lead up to that moment it's hard to discuss A few points that may help understand why it may have been considered a step towards the darkside. And that IS what it was, not judging you as being "evil" but judging the action/choice as being a small step of many towards the darkside. You had a choice. You didn't HAVE to kill him but you did. In the context of the quest we have to ask why you did. Fear? Fear of what he may do based on past actions? Fear leads to the darkside. Hate? Hate for who he was and what he had done? Darkside that leads you to. Self-righteous arrogance? You had the power to and deemed yourself judge, jury and executioner. What were the other options and what had lead up to that point? Was capture an option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverlongAU Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [stallone voice]I AM the law![/stallone voice] hahah like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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