Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Did you allow him a trial in front of 12 of his peers, and give him the right to multiple appeals? Your not a judge jury and executioner, you are an employee of the republic so you have to abide by the rules and morals of the republic [stallone voice]I AM the law![/stallone voice] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're saying the government is evil for executing serial killers? I'm the government (trooper) and I just executed a serial killer who will certainly keep doing it. It's the same thing. Letting him go when I had the chance to stop him would mean I indirectly murdered hundreds. It's wrong to end anyones life regardless of what they have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdatik Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Then how come every single dark side character is evil? Evil is subjective. Light-siders call the dark side evil, but that does not make it a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This all depends on if you are making a moral argument or not. Killing someone who will kill others is a consequentialism theory, but the problem is that the consequence of not killing a potential murderer is that you can't see the future. Unless he is literally holding his fist over the "kill a million people" button, then you can't accurately predict what he would do in the future. As for the death penalty--- well that is a whole separate issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) It's wrong to end anyones life regardless of what they have done. My way results in one death. Your way results in hundreds. Therefore you're the evil one. Edited January 13, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Evil is subjective. Light-siders call the dark side evil, but that does not make it a fact. I agree IRL, but Lucas makes it clear that the Empire and Sith are evil. The force if used for evil will corrupt and turn you to the dark side. Fact. That is just the paradigm of Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliotic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 My way results in one death. Your way results in hundreds. Therefore you're the evil one. What does good and evil have to do with it? Killing helpless people is a darkside act. The fact that he would go on to commit his own killings later on doesnt negate your act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 What does good and evil have to do with it? Killing helpless people is a darkside act. The fact that he would go on to commit his own killings later on doesnt negate your act. It's also logically flawed because you can't predict the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliotic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I agree IRL, but Lucas makes it clear that the Empire and Sith are evil. The force if used for evil will corrupt and turn you to the dark side. Fact. That is just the paradigm of Star Wars. Sure, but 'being in love' is also a dark side act. How evil is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) The fact that he would go on to commit his own killings later on doesnt negate your act. Yes it does. I chose the way that resulted in the most good happening. There's no way that can possibly be considered dark side and/or evil. Edited January 13, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdatik Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I agree IRL, but Lucas makes it clear that the Empire and Sith are evil. The force if used for evil will corrupt and turn you to the dark side. Fact. That is just the paradigm of Star Wars. Has Lucas defined evil and good, though? I'm not well versed on SW lore. If he has, did he define it for his universe, or was it more of him stating his beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliotic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes it does. I chose the way that resulted in the most good happening. There's no way that can possibly be considered dark side and/or evil. Dark Side isn't the same as evil. You keep linking the two and that's where you are going wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami_Nikurasu Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Sure, but 'being in love' is also a dark side act. How evil is that? thats the jedi code which forbids passion, and love is passion, which will make you value one person over the rest. and jedi needs to value people equal. (and if the jedi looses the one they are in love with... well you know how it went with anakin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Sure, but 'being in love' is also a dark side act. How evil is that? I don't think it's being in love that's the problem... Only the powerful and passionate emotions that typically follow. The aren't dark side per we, but they lead to the potential for dark side easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrden Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 What if I capture this mass-murderer, place him in prison where he in turn reforms his character and goes on to save millions of lives in the future... Wouldn't it have been an evil act to kill him instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) It's also logically flawed because you can't predict the future. So you'd be perfectly fine letting a pedophile babysit your kids then? Cats meow. Birds sing. Killers kill. He's been doing it for years. He's not just going to suddenly wake up good tomorrow. Edited January 13, 2012 by Game_Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliotic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 So you'd be perfectly fine letting a pedophile babysit your kids then? Cats meow. Birds sing. Killers kill. He's been doing it for years. he's not just going to suddenly wake up good tomorrow. :siren: You have gone off the deep end sir, abort. Abort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has Lucas defined evil and good, though? I'm not well versed on SW lore. If he has, did he define it for his universe, or was it more of him stating his beliefs? He has defined it in the paradigm of Star Wars. It may also represent his personal beliefs, but I don't really know. I am talking about the SW canon. Expanded universe and such.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdatik Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) So you'd be perfectly fine letting a pedophile babysit your kids then? Cats meow. Birds sing. Killers kill. He's been doing it for years. He's not just going to suddenly wake up good tomorrow. Yes, letting a pedophile babysit your child IRL is exactly the same as letting a murder free in a video game where there is no such thing as free will, and everything is predetermined. He has defined it in the paradigm of Star Wars. It may also represent his personal beliefs, but I don't really know. I am talking about the SW canon. Expanded universe and such.. I'm just looking at it philosophically (darn you college...), so it's hard for me to not look at good/evil as simply being subjective. However, all of this leads me to question it somewhat. If killing is meant to be dark side (which is probably a faulty premise), then it would be impossible to kill someone without gaining dark side points. And if honor is a major concept of the light side, then where would killing someone out of honor fall? (I already know how the game handles this, at least in one situation ) Edited January 13, 2012 by Bdatik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'll give you that, sure. I'd rather argue that the Force is neither good or evil, but necessary. It is--it exists. Force philosophy is always a fun nerd topic. I can definitely see the point you're coming from. Unfortunately, if you follow the lore, it ties our hands. Good and Evil are certainly somewhat relative. But not completely. There are absolute moral values. But even within the Star Wars universe (which mirrors our own society from a moral standpoint), the will of the darkside is patently Evil, and the will of the lightside is patently good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 So you'd be perfectly fine letting a pedophile babysit your kids then? Cats meow. Birds sing. Killers kill. He's been doing it for years. He's not just going to suddenly wake up good tomorrow. I am just telling you the morality of your choice. I am not taking a moral stance. I personally would not let a pedophile watch my neighbors kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliotic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I can definitely see the point you're coming from. Unfortunately, if you follow the lore, it ties our hands. Good and Evil are certainly somewhat relative. But not completely. There are absolute moral values. But even within the Star Wars universe (which mirrors our own society from a moral standpoint), the will of the darkside is patently Evil, and the will of the lightside is patently good. It's only really a problem if you expect your light side jedi to be 100% light side points. Rather than willing to 'do what is necessary' for the greater good. [Yes I do find it slightly frustrating when people just click the light side option because they are a jedi rather than reading it and deciding what their character would do. ] Edited January 13, 2012 by Heliotic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes, letting a pedophile babysit your child IRL is exactly the same as letting a murder free in a video game where there is no such thing as free will, and everything is predetermined. I'm just looking at it philosophically (darn you college...), so it's hard for me to not look at good/evil as simply being subjective. I understand exactly what you mean. There is no relativism in the SW universe where the force is concerned. Much different than IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Hermit Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes, letting a pedophile babysit your child IRL is exactly the same as letting a murder free in a video game where there is no such thing as free will, and everything is predetermined. You do understand the concept of a hypothetical question, right? Look, all I'm saying is that people do what they do. It's completely unreasonable to say that a guy who has killed hundreds of times might not kill again. Of course he will. That's who he is. There's no reason to expect him not to do something that he does constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Personally, I agree with you. Killing a proven murderer is not immoral, IMO. However, it IS immoral by society's standards. If a Cop caught up with a known murderer that had escaped, had him at gunpoint and at his mercy... if he shot him, that Cop would go on trial for murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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