What's with the talent trees? Blatant copy of WOW

[Nemmar]

Honestly... what does this matter? Talent trees are a good system for character development and many games use them. I dont see what is the shocker.

 

WoW copies whatever is good from other games and companies (for example WoW copies the achievement system from Xbox live) OMG! Everyone should unsub WoW cause they are copying from another company.

[Qoojo]

lol..the "funny" thing about "talent" "trees" is that most tree levels have only 5 POINTS to "choose" from. Which of course 9 out of 10 times mean there's no choice whatsoever, because you're ending up taking all 5 points....

 

I have noticed this that the choices are not that hard for me to make. Maxing out a tree seems to take about 36 or 38 points. So they must have decided that the choice is between a hybrid or purely one tree. For DPS, that's a choice, but tanks and healers need to fully spec their trees.

[TheHeadCapper]

You argue in favor of a very weak system, yes i would call that defending it.

 

Apart from that you are ignoring the issue.

.

 

Sigh, all right last post because i hate dealing with people that don't know the difference between fact and opinion.

 

You think it's a bad system, this is your opinion and you are entitled to it. it's not wrong or right, it's your opinion. By nature of being an opinion it can't be right or wrong/

 

My opinion is that i enjoy the current talent system. I like how my commando's heals significantly change as i go up the tree, adding new abilities and changing current heals to also add additional effects like shields and HOT's.

 

You can disagree with me and that's fine. I'm not defending anything i'm stating a different opinion than you. I respect you have a different opinion because we aren't all robots otherwise we'd me watching the same movies and reading the same books. I realize that people like different things and that people have different opinions. Because you like something and i don't, if we discuss it that doesn't mean you are defending it, it just means you have a different opinion.

Get it yet?

[omgbambi]

I know I'm low level (20 on most of my characters) but I don't 'feel' like a certain spec. I hated the fact that in WOW when I wanted to be frost Mage I had to go really deep into the tree to feel like a frost mage. Same with warriors fury etc.

 

I want to feel like a scrapper or sawbones etc. Like I said I don't 'feel' like one early on. Again it was something that irked me WOW and after so long they changed it in Cataclysm and I liked it. Some people didn't but it was a nice change.

 

Some of the early talents see, useless for scoundrel > scrapper and Shadow > infiltration. Or am I missing something?

 

Ever heard of Dungeons and Dragons m8?

[arframe]

Wait, an MMO ripped off stuff from another MMO?! Say it isn't so!!!

 

I almost posted a post that said: "Isn't WoW that crappy fantasy game that ripped off SWTOR?" But I thought better of it.

[Seisaan]

You argue in favor of a very weak system, yes i would call that defending it.

 

Apart from that you are ignoring the issue.

 

Is it ok that every single ability my sorcerer has is a 1:1 copy?

 

No exeption, not one new talent/skill.

 

Now, OP, I know this may be hard for you to understand, but some people, are fine with this. I know its hard for your little mind to accept that people, in fact, do not all think the same way you do, but it is true. Do you also belittle military shooters because they all have the same guns? Do you also belittle Fantasy games because they all use swords and magic?

[Anelitt]

Sigh, all right last post because i hate dealing with people that don't know the difference between fact and opinion.

 

You think it's a bad system, this is your opinion and you are entitled to it. it's not wrong or right, it's your opinion. By nature of being an opinion it can't be right or wrong/

 

My opinion is that i enjoy the current talent system. I like how my commando's heals significantly change as i go up the tree, adding new abilities and changing current heals to also add additional effects like shields and HOT's.

 

You can disagree with me and that's fine. I'm not defending anything i'm stating a different opinion than you. I respect you have a different opinion because we aren't all robots otherwise we'd me watching the same movies and reading the same books. I realize that people like different things and that people have different opinions. Because you like something and i don't, if we discuss it that doesn't mean you are defending it, it just means you have a different opinion.

Get it yet?

 

 

You could just answer if you find it ok that every single spell is a 1:1 copy.

Not one single new talent/ability.

 

Yes/No?

[Anelitt]

Now, OP, I know this may be hard for you to understand, but some people, are fine with this. I know its hard for your little mind to accept that people, in fact, do not all think the same way you do, but it is true. Do you also belittle military shooters because they all have the same guns? Do you also belittle Fantasy games because they all use swords and magic?

 

 

Im not he OP

 

Not one talent/ability that is not a 1:1 copy.

 

is that satisfying?

[TheHeadCapper]

You could just answer if you find it ok that every single spell is a 1:1 copy.

Not one single new talent/ability.

 

Yes/No?

 

I didn't expect you to understand, what a surprise. I guess that's how kids roll nowadays, oblivious.

 

BTW if you had any comprehension skills the answer is in there when i talk about the commando tree, but i'm not expecting much so i'm sure you'll come back with something you 'think' is smart.

Edited January 12, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[imaslapu]

Im not he OP

 

Not one talent/ability that is not a 1:1 copy.

 

is that satisfying?

 

And WoW ripped from everything that came before it. Everything. Nothing in WoW is original fyi.

[BeeblesTV]

Please suggest a new and unique way to do talent trees.

[ApesAmongUs]

Please suggest a new and unique way to do talent trees.

Compared to this? SWG

Or, you know, not having trees - you could just have different abilities and buy them - EQ AA points were like that

 

New and unique aren't required, but if you're going to copy something don't pick a crappy system to copy.

[Dilbon]

WoW's talent tree system has always been horrible and I was very disappointed when SWTOR copied it. Bioware should have used the feat system they had in KOTOR.

[Anelitt]

And WoW ripped from everything that came before it. Everything. Nothing in WoW is original fyi.

 

 

I dont care where wow got its talent trees from.

 

Thats not the subject here. Why will you not just answer the question?

 

Is it ok that my class in a new MMO has ZERO new talents/abilitys and evry single one of them is a ripoff?

 

 

You know it does not make sense to answer with "yes" yet in some weird twisted way you cannot make yourself admit that it is really weak.

[Graveland]

I agree, Cataclysm's change to the talent system is a huge improvement... specifically making your character have its core spec abilities right out of the gate at level 10. That's something that was missing before, and therefore missing in SWTOR's blatant rip-off of WoW's older talent system.

 

It's irritating to have to level a character deep into the 30's before you'll see if you are going to like that class or not.

 

I chose pretty well this time around, since I researched the classes heavily before choosing. But not everyone is going to take the time to do that.

 

Improvement? They constantly dumbed down the game for mush brains. So you can literally spam 1-2 buttons and do whatever your spec is supposed to. Started in BC and Cataclysm stepped it up even more and now its getting pushed to another level. If this game goes that route I'm out and I know a lot of others will be as well.

[ApesAmongUs]

Ever heard of Dungeons and Dragons m8?

m8? Did that come after 4th edition? Very strange name change there to skip 3 whole editions.

[lordgracy]

that came before it. nothing in wow was done by them first. they only got as big as they are through ingenious marketing if not for that wow would have gone f2p a loooong time ago!

 

 

um no. all the marketing in the world wouldnt make a bad game good. WoW believe or not was a very good game and thats why it has the subs it has today. Look at all the marketing RIFT had. Didnt help that bad game much did it?

and should I even bring up warhammer?

Edited January 12, 2012 by lordgracy

[BeeblesTV]

Compared to this? SWG

Or, you know, not having trees - you could just have different abilities and buy them - EQ AA points were like that

 

New and unique aren't required, but if you're going to copy something don't pick a crappy system to copy.

 

What exactly is wrong with WoW's talent system, it works fine?

[Seisaan]

I dont care where wow got its talent trees from.

 

Thats not the subject here. Why will you not just answer the question?

 

Is it ok that my class in a new MMO has ZERO new talents/abilitys and evry single one of them is a ripoff?

 

 

You know it does not make sense to answer with "yes" yet in some weird twisted way you cannot make yourself admit that it is really weak.

 

So you dont care where WoW gots its trees and talents from...but you do care when its concerned with SWToR. Way to be a hypocrite.

[Selaik]

Why do you avoid the topic?

Noone argues that wow was the first one to use the talent tree system.

 

The issue here is that every single ability and talent of classes (mine atleast) is a direct 1:1 copy.

Not a single new ability.

Isnt that a little weak? come on.

 

Here a list i made of my current talent tree so you can see its true:

 

Lightning tree:

 

 

Tier 1:

 

- convection (2,4,6% dmg increase on select spells)

Dont think i need to elaborate further? as cookie cutter copy as can be.

 

-Reserves: Increases max force

Old arcane mage +healer talent.

 

-Electric induction: Force cost decrease of spells.

Every healer had those in wow.

 

Tier 2:

 

- Lightning Spire: increases range of some spells.

Copy of stoneage caster range talents wow used to have.

 

- Exsanguinate: Increases dot duration 3/6 sec.

SW:pain talent from wow.

 

- Subversion: Pushback reduction + slightly increased regen.

Every caster spec has those in wow.

 

- Lightning barrier: Increased absorb of shield.

Disc priest talent copy.

 

Tier 3:

 

- Supression: cooldown reduction on CC.

Copy of shaman Hex talent.

 

- Chain lightning.

Yeah no further explanation needed.

 

- Lightning barrage: Force lightning ticks 2 as fats when procced.

1:1 copy of the old mage talent missile barrage:

 

- Electric bindings: Root on aoe.

This is improved cone of cold, added on a slightly different aoe though.

 

Tier 4:

 

- Lightning storm: Chance on nuke to make chainlightning instant.

Ele shammy talent.

 

- Lightning effusion: Crits reduce force cost of next two spells.

This would be clearcasting

 

-Backlash: Shield CCs nearby enemys when ending.

- This is Shattered barrier. frostmage talent.

 

Tier 5:

 

-Forked Lightning: Chance on nuke to make a second nuke for diminished dmg.

1:1 copy of lightning overload.

 

- Conduction: Forked lightning increase dmg by 1% stacks 3 times.

1:1 copy of ret pala talent.

 

- Polarity shift: 20% haste for 10 sec.

This is frostmage talent icy veins.

 

Tier 6:

 

- reverberating force: Increases crit dmg by 10/20/30/40/50%

Ancient wow talent all casters sued to have and was scrapped.

 

Tier 7:

 

- Thundering blast: Nuke that auto crits with dot on mob.

This would be a direct copy of Lava burst of eleshammys.

 

 

Again you say: " Wow didnt invent talent tree system"

 

The issue here is: " Every single spell/talent is a 1:1 copy"

 

you miss understand I think the whole talent tree system is ridiculous stupid and makes everyone a carbon copy of each other , i much prefer the original SWG system then talent trees.

 

was just pointing out to the op that WoW did not create the system our much of anything else expect cartoony looking avatars and a dumb down version of on line gaming .

[Grabemx]

I know I'm low level (20 on most of my characters) but I don't 'feel' like a certain spec. I hated the fact that in WOW when I wanted to be frost Mage I had to go really deep into the tree to feel like a frost mage. Same with warriors fury etc.

 

I want to feel like a scrapper or sawbones etc. Like I said I don't 'feel' like one early on. Again it was something that irked me WOW and after so long they changed it in Cataclysm and I liked it. Some people didn't but it was a nice change.

 

Some of the early talents see, useless for scoundrel > scrapper and Shadow > infiltration. Or am I missing something?

 

Not to split hairs here, but WoW was not the first game to have "talent trees". That can probably be traced back to Everquest's Alternate Advancement system, and basically streamlined to have more of an impact on an individual.

[Napalm_AKI]

imho skill trees in SWTOR are pretty crappy. Don't remember what it was in WoW never really liked the game that much, but have plenty of exp with AoC and more recently Rift, and thats what I'm hoping to see in SWTOR in the future.

 

Main problem I have is that there is hardly any choice in SWTOR. To advance in a tree you pretty much have to pick every single skill in there, with an exception maybe of one or two. AoC and Rift you could spec within a tree in more then one way, boosting skills by playing of each other and leaving other be, and at the end you had anough skill points too go half way up the second tree.

 

SWTOR just goes through the motions of looking like it gives a choice.

[Dilbon]

Please suggest a new and unique way to do talent trees.

 

Not have them.

[TonyACT]

I agree so much OP

 

Probably my biggest problem in this game.

 

EVERY SINGLE TALENT in my sith sorcerer tree is a 1:1 copy of old wow talents.

 

Mostly taken from ele shammy but some from warlocks and mages also.

 

I get that talent trees are used by most MMO's but come on, copying every single one without any innvoation whatsoever? Thats just weak.

 

On top of that its the old talents that we're copyed. Its like the devs took a snapshot of wow's talents back in 2009 and decided to copy them, without looking at the improvements made to them since.

 

Spending 20 of your talent points on talents such as: "increases critchance by 1/2/3% or decreases damage taken by 1/2%" Is not fun. Its an ancient system.

 

if they choose to make 1:1 copys of another games talents without any innovation they could atleast have copyed the new overhauled ones.

 

Needing to get ur char to lvl- 30-40 to even feel like beeing somehow different then another spec is pretty lame.

 

The new overhauled ones are crap. So glad they copied the older version where you gradually built up your power.

[ApesAmongUs]

So you dont care where WoW gots its trees and talents from...but you do care when its concerned with SWToR. Way to be a hypocrite.

Why is that hypocritical?

 

WoW is crappy for copying a crappy system.

 

SWTOR is crappy for copying a crappy system.

 

SWTOR doesn't get forgiven because WoW copied it first.