HanzoV Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The problem with rolling for companions is we eventually end up with all 5 roles of companions: melee tank, ranged tank, ranged DPS, melee DPS, healer. Meaning by level 50 you could argue for needing every possible kind of gear, and so could everyone else. At that point, there really is no "Greed" anymore, Greed might as well, at that point, be called "Pass". This to me is the most salient reason why rolling for companions is simply not practical when applied server-wide across all characters. Secondly I would say that unless the companion is taking part in the flashpoint in question that there is no justification to roll for them to get anything. This is why it's only fair to be upfront about your intentions, if you plan to NEED for companions. Additionally, people need to explain what type of gear they'll be NEEDing on, since your groupmates may not know what type of gear your companions need, unless they've played your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Again confusing a character in the game for an actual human being. Human beings are in the real world - characters and companions are both equally imaginary. Wow...literal troll is literal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I troll need on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Everyone will never fully agree on this topic. People justify their stance any way they can. Most simple and most honest method is state your looting intentions before you start a group or FP with people you do not know. Simple and straightforward as in, "Just FYI, I roll NEED for my companions." If the people stay in your group, awesome, if not, go find people who loot the same way. I will go out on a limb and say most people do not feel that is appropriate but nothing wrong with being clear about it up front. IF you are not clear about, it shows you feel this is not the best route to go but do it anyway. DISCUSS FIRST, LOOT SECOND. You won't have any issues with that tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberData Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Again confusing a character in the game for an actual human being. Human beings are in the real world - characters and companions are both equally imaginary. The person actual playing their MAIN is more important than my npc companion. If you want to roll like that, feel free. Just make sure to mention that when you join or form groups. Good luck with people sticking around... I find being reasonable makes me plenty of friends and being a jerk tends to alienate. Not gonna bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Roll Need for a companion ONLY if he/she participated in the instance! Otherwise your a complete %&&*% and no one will group with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meancraig Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) To the OP... Sure, go ahead and roll need for companion gear. /group kick The the person who says they `need`gear that they will dissassemble for mods... that is what the dissassemble choice is for. /group kick Ask first, if the group says no, don't do it. Even if the companion participates in the flashpoint, you don't roll need. Your companion is replaceable with someone else's companion, and is quite frankly a only place-holder for an actual player. I'm almost at 50 and have never purposely geared my companions. If I happen to find stuff for them great, but I have never bought, group looted (except random greed wins), or in any way TRIED to gear my companions. I have had no trouble whatsoever with the game, or levelling thus far. I don't believe there is any need for the companions to be outfitted to the max. My history - medium mmorpg background (max time played at any one game was SWG 1.5 years), pure healer build, jedi consular lvl 46 Edited January 12, 2012 by meancraig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Everyone will never fully agree on this topic. People justify their stance any way they can. Most simple and most honest method is state your looting intentions before you start a group or FP with people you do not know. Simple and straightforward as in, "Just FYI, I roll NEED for my companions." If the people stay in your group, awesome, if not, go find people who loot the same way. I will go out on a limb and say most people do not feel that is appropriate but nothing wrong with being clear about it up front. IF you are not clear about, it shows you feel this is not the best route to go but do it anyway. DISCUSS FIRST, LOOT SECOND. You won't have any issues with that tactic. THIS...people want a choice. If people want to stick around for a companion gear run...that's great. If not, then find another group. Most people here just don't want to see an upgrade drop and out of the blue someone needs it without saying a word "for their companion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 you've gotta be *********** kidding me. your companion is a secondary character and essential to some encounters. if people have a problem with "needing" gear for companions then they're idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 There's a very good reason I very, very rarely leave the Fleet anymore ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDagoth Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I do see your points. However, if you roll for a companion over a member of the group, you will come off as an extremely greedy person that may end up not getting you groups in the future. It's really all about perception. Nobody is going to say "His companion really needed that so it's ok" they are going to say "that **** just ninja looted a piece that our (x class) could have used" Again, the lines are a little blurred in this game since you will use a companion most of the time leveling, people are just not going to let it sit well when they lose out to someones companion. Absolutely agree, while it is understandable for the player to want to roll need for his companion, in the end human player should always have priority over an NPC, always. Use the $$ you get from questing to buy gear in the AH, or if you pvp alot a very easy way to get awesome gear for your companion is to buy the PVP gear for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 you've gotta be *********** kidding me. your companion is a secondary character and essential to some encounters. if people have a problem with "needing" gear for companions then they're idiots. Name ONE flashpoint encounter you need your companion for when you have a full group....I'll wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWB-NL Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just roll 'need' you helped get it, you are entitled to win it. Why is someone else regardless of class entitled to it? Just because you are healer does not automatically entitle you to every healer item. The truth is, people join groups to help themselves, advance their levels or get a quest done. They are rarely there to help you. WoW brought in this my class my need item thing. Well before that, people won items, and if you needed it, you bought it from them at an agreed price. You are entitled to nothing. Actually yes, if the bosses all drop healer gear the healer can use, he is entitled to every single piece which drops. Random number generators will generally result in a reasonably fair loot distribution (by dropping useful pieces and winning rolls) over a large sample size. A single instance is too small a sample size however to get such a fair distribution. The result is that you might have players see some lucky streaks (and accompanying unlucky streaks in which nothing drops). Using the above principles of loot distribution (apparently denying the healer gear he could use in favor of companions or even vendoring) is only going to hurt you in the long run as well. This run you might be unlucky and nothing drops for you. Another run, you might get lucky and see all that useful gear you can use drop. Using the principles you came up with above, you would have taken useful healer loot 'away' from the healer, and would similarly have useful loot 'taken away' from you in a subsequent run. The bottom line being you now have two players with worse gear than they could have had. So yeah, if you are in a group and a lot of gear drops which a single player can use, let him have it, congratulate him, curse him in your thoughts and vow that you will be more lucky next run. As for companions: As you get higher in levels, companions typically tend to get less effective than actual human players, and as such get less useful, and are less likely to be used. Partially due to the very limited scripting possible (the Dragon Age scripting systems would have been wonderful) as well as the difficulty of properly positioning companions and the slow response time they seem to have. (Getting a companion to run outside an AoE groundeffect targetted on him is a pain) The result of this is that companions are only really used for solo gameplay, for which they quite honestly don't need flashpoint drops. Some cheap greens from the AH and the occasional commendation item will have them perform just fine for all the content they have been designed for. In the long run, it's a much better idea to leave instance drops to actual players if they need the item. It will actually help the effectiveness in content such as operations, hard mode flashpoints and warzones, where companions will hardly be used. While you might offer the argument that you will not see these players again, thing is that if this kind of rolling becomes commonplace as you propose, you will be losing gear to companion rolls in the future yourself. Resulting you to be worse geared and less effective in content that actually matters than you could have. So bottom line: Rolling need for a companion if nobody else needs it, sure go right ahead. But don't be idiotic and steal an upgrade from an actual player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Name ONE flashpoint encounter you need your companion for when you have a full group....I'll wait... why does it matter if the companion is being used right then and there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Sue wears aim gear, Vetter wears cunning gear. can you give an actual example of a drop that is an upgrade to both? Are you going to continue dodging the point of the question until I dig up companion stats, or are you going to use your imagination for three seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 why does it matter if the companion is being used right then and there? Because without that group...you're companion never would have seen said gear. Meaning he wouldn't have earned it without others helping you. So why should he get another PERSON's upgrade over your NPC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzoV Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Everyone will never fully agree on this topic. People justify their stance any way they can. Most simple and most honest method is state your looting intentions before you start a group or FP with people you do not know. Simple and straightforward as in, "Just FYI, I roll NEED for my companions." If the people stay in your group, awesome, if not, go find people who loot the same way. I will go out on a limb and say most people do not feel that is appropriate but nothing wrong with being clear about it up front. IF you are not clear about, it shows you feel this is not the best route to go but do it anyway. DISCUSS FIRST, LOOT SECOND. You won't have any issues with that tactic. I think the problem is that these are GREEDY people we're dealing with, both in regards to loot and time. (Doesn't apply to everyone on that side, but) They don't want to be upfront about it out of fear that they'll be kicked (they don't want to take the time to find another group) and they also don't want YOU to be able to roll NEED for your companions. They are hoping that they can get through most of the instance without the other players noticing that they are NEEDing on just about everything. They also don't want to be blacklisted on their servers, which is why they shout-down the idea of it here. Otherwise, they could just be upfront about it. Edited January 12, 2012 by HanzoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Are you going to continue dodging the point of the question until I dig up companion stats, or are you going to use your imagination for three seconds? Ferroz trolls these topics everytime they come up. Anonymity makes it easy...You'll never get a straight answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YooYooMa Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Because if somebody is running the instance with you and needs that gear for their character and you take it away for your stupid companion, you WILL be blacklisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjVybz Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Need everything...because someone else will... Yep i payed 70$ for the month to do what i want that includes needing everything and vendoring stuff i dont need. I don't care about anyone else but myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Because without that group...you're companion never would have seen said gear. Meaning he wouldn't have earned it without others helping you. So why should he get another PERSON's upgrade over your NPC? your companion is an extension of your primary character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessophead Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 short answer NO! the way i see it is that rolling need for a companion is wrong, a companion has NOT helped in a flashpoint. I would suggest that if you want to roll for a companion it should be similar to rolling for an off spec char. I would say that if you want to for gear for your comp then do it as an off spec request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiborF Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Debating this here on these forums is rather pointless because you will never get everyone to agree. The absolute best thing YOU can do is to use that tool called the chat window and get the other 3 or 7 people to agree on what the loot rules are for that instance run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 This has NOTHING to do with being greedy or wrong. If I a Sith Inquistor need gears for my companion to help me level easier on the way up. Then so be it, if they DIDN't want me to do that they would have made companion gear drops only. The fact that they gave you companions AND let them wear regular people gears means they want you to roll for your companion gears. It is what it on the way up via grouping and what not, now once at 50 I can see how rolling for companion would be wrong. After all you would no longer need to use them since you would be doing operation only. But on the way up, I believe it is Bioware intention for you to arm your companion to the best of your abilities via, items dropps, buying or even using commendation tokens. There is nothing wrong with it, unless those other three players I am with plan on being with me every moment I log in, I need a better healer or tank depending on the situation. Nuff said. So everyone should just need everything, since you get 5 companions so you will be needing 6 sets of gear. So if everyone was like you, bioware should just get rid of greed and pass and auto need roll everyone in every group. Thank goodness bioware didnt design this game for selfish nasty WoW LFD lovers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 your companion is an extension of your primary character. Who's stats make no difference what-so-ever in a 4 manned group...Why can't people grasp this? If you can trio the boss + your companion...then yes your companion deserves a shot at loot. If it's 4 HUMAN CONTROLLED PLAYERS and no one needs the upgrade then yes...ask the group if you can need...If one of the players NEEDS the upgrade then no, it's not ok to need on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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