Patience.

[Hebrind]

Ladies and gentlemen of the forums, and of BioWare,

 

May I take a moment to say thankyou for this game, it's fantastic. I'm not going to go into specifics just yet, but I would like to make some things clear to anyone who happens to read my post. Let me just say that I don't understand anything to do with programming and coding, and nor will I pretend to. However, being a rational human being and being an agreeable sort of guy (so long as I've got a couple of cups of tea inside me), I would like to just give my point of view on one of the matters at hand.

 

I simply wonder why people are upset about SW:TOR's bugginess; it's a pretty polished game compared to many releases on the market (Skyrim to name but one) and it works well. It's enjoyable, there's enough content to keep me happy for at least a few months - I think anyone who has multiple level 50 characters at the moment need to slow down, stop trying to "beat" the game, and smell the roses a bit. Perhaps see some sunlight every so often.

 

A lot of people on the forums complain that TOR doesn't have as much content as other MMO's, World of Warcraft of course being the main competitor. Well, of course it doesn't. It's a new release, WoW has had about 11 years of collective development time and 7 years of being live. Of course it has more content. But is the quality of late up to BioWare's standard? Personally, I don't think so.

 

Games - especially games of this scope - take time. Lots and lots of time. To quote Daniel Erickson, TOR's Lead Writer,

 

"We calculated it. We've got about 20 credited writers on TOR, and they produced 60 man-years of writing. If one person sat down to write our game, they'd be 60 before they finished. It's larger than every other BioWare RPG put together."

 

This is just the start of the journey, dear forum-ites, and we can bet (or at least hope) that BioWare will learn from Blizzard's mistakes. The quality of the quest delivery is already stellar. The game itself, graphically, looks far better than WoW ever will - and that's not my opinion, it's technical fact. Couple these traits with the pedigree of BioWare's past endeavours, along with the game system itself (which is tighter than me - and I'm a Yorkshireman), and you've got something truly special. So why try to skip to the end of the journey?

 

There are additions I feel BioWare could certainly make, specifically when it comes to the UI's feedback and responsiveness: A threat meter and custom UI support come to mind. But I know that, 6 months down the line, TOR will be sleeker. It'll be faster. It'll be more fun. And I'll still be playing it because I won't have over-indulged myself by trying to beat the game.

 

Enjoy the ride. Treat it like a game - something to be enjoyed and to be immersed in. Don't treat it like a gadget and complain until you're blue in the face because "WoW haz moar stuf!". That's like saying "Oblivion is better than Skyrim, because Oblivion's got mods and more time behind it". And it just doesn't work like that - does it?

 

And for those of you who has got three level 50 characters and feel the game is "lacking", please remember not to treat this like a job, and treat it more like a game - unless of course, TOR is your job, and you work for BioWare, in which case you have my undying envy.

 

Thankyou for reading this, thankyou for your consideration, and please leave "troll" comments at the door.

 

Cheers

 

Heb

Edited January 12, 2012 by Hebrind

[Chosenxeno]

I'm tired of "Bugs are a standard" and "This game is still new" thread.

 

This game has the biggest Budget ever for an MMO.

 

The "MMO that was released not long ago" had a nearly bug free launch.

 

As far as "This game is new" goes, that "Aging but very popular game" makes this game feel old by comparison since it has:

 

Parsers, Addons, a Customzeable UI, A Macro Interface, LFD(not super old but, old enough that everyone should be and is aware of it) and *gasp* Chat Bubbles.

 

This game is new but, these things^ are not. At least 3 have long been standards.

 

I want this game to Succeed, but I can tell you now that the Forums of "that MMO released not long ago" didn't have close to the level of disappointment the posters in these Forums seem to have very early on.

 

I'm hoping they can turn it around. They need to have at least 3 of the 5 things available in their 1st major patch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I know I'm being watched.

[Rayvonuk]

I personally blame wow for "instant gratification" it ruined the genre

[lokivoid]

Ladies and gentlemen of the forums, and of BioWare,

 

May I take a moment to say thankyou for this game, it's fantastic. I'm not going to go into specifics just yet, but I would like to make some things clear to anyone who happens to read my post. Let me just say that I don't understand anything to do with programming and coding, and nor will I pretend to. However, being a rational human being and being an agreeable sort of guy (so long as I've got a couple of cups of tea inside me), I would like to just give my point of view on one of the matters at hand.

 

I simply wonder why people are upset about SW:TOR's bugginess; it's a pretty polished game compared to many releases on the market (Skyrim to name but one) and it works well. It's enjoyable, there's enough content to keep me happy for at least a few months - I think anyone who has multiple level 50 characters at the moment need to slow down, stop trying to "beat" the game, and smell the roses a bit. Perhaps see some sunlight every so often.

 

A lot of people on the forums complain that TOR doesn't have as much content as other MMO's, World of Warcraft of course being the main competitor. Well, of course it doesn't. It's a new release, WoW has had about 11 years of collective development time and 7 years of being live. Of course it has more content. But is the quality of late up to BioWare's standard? Personally, I don't think so.

 

Games - especially games of this scope - take time. Lots and lots of time. To quote Daniel Erickson, TOR's Lead Writer,

 

"We calculated it. We've got about 20 credited writers on TOR, and they produced 60 man-years of writing. If one person sat down to write our game, they'd be 60 before they finished. It's larger than every other BioWare RPG put together."

 

This is just the start of the journey, dear forum-ites, and we can bet (or at least hope) that BioWare will learn from Blizzard's mistakes. The quality of the quest delivery is already stellar. The game itself, graphically, looks far better than WoW ever will - and that's not my opinion, it's technical fact. Couple these traits with the pedigree of BioWare's past endeavours, along with the game system itself (which is tighter than me - and I'm a Yorkshireman), and you've got something truly special. So why try to skip to the end of the journey?

 

There are additions I feel BioWare could certainly make, specifically when it comes to the UI's feedback and responsiveness: A threat meter and custom UI support come to mind. But I know that, 6 months down the line, TOR will be sleeker. It'll be faster. It'll be more fun. And I'll still be playing it because I won't have over-indulged myself by trying to beat the game.

 

Enjoy the ride. Treat it like a game - something to be enjoyed and to be immersed in. Don't treat it like a gadget and complain until you're blue in the face because "WoW haz moar stuf!". That's like saying "Oblivion is better than Skyrim, because Oblivion's got mods and more time behind it". And it just doesn't work like that - does it?

 

And for those of you who has got three level 50 characters and feel the game is "lacking", please remember not to treat this like a job, and treat it more like a game - unless of course, TOR is your job, and you work for BioWare, in which case you have my undying envy.

 

Thankyou for reading this, thankyou for your consideration, and please leave "troll" comments at the door.

 

Cheers

 

Heb

 

TL;DR

 

Patience does not apply to anything you are paying a subscription for.

Time is money, time wasted equals money wasted.

[Chosenxeno]

I personally blame wow for "instant gratification" it ruined the genre

 

Yea WOW's doing sooooooooooooooo bad because of these things. When it gets down to 250k Subs then your argument becomes relevant. Til then....

[Bullsith]

I personally blame wow for "instant gratification" it ruined the genre

 

Yeah, let's blame another game for being good and fun. Yeah, WoW is a very good and fun game. SWTOR is not, and that's the worse thing about this ****ed up situation. With their budget and WoW as an exaple to what people go for, to what they enjoy and the mistakes wow made, mistakes that they could avoid, SWTOR should have been the MMO player's Promised land. I want to enjoy this game more than I did WoW. I can't, because it's so full of mistakes and bugs that it makes it impossible.

[Rayvonuk]

Yea WOW's doing sooooooooooooooo bad because of these things. When it gets down to 250k Subs then your argument becomes relevant. Til then....

 

I said it ruined the genre, nothing about how popular it is, it was the first mmo you played, i know, that kind of proves my point.

[Chosenxeno]

Yeah, let's blame another game for being good and fun. Yeah, WoW is a very good and fun game. SWTOR is not, and that's the worse thing about this ****ed up situation. With their budget and WoW as an exaple to what people go for, to what they enjoy and the mistakes wow made, mistakes that they could avoid, SWTOR should have been the MMO player's Promised land. I want to enjoy this game more than I did WoW. I can't, because it's so full of mistakes and bugs that it makes it impossible.

 

 

What he doesn't get is if SW:TOR had some of that "Aging but still good game". It would be Outright better. The Character Story thing and the Fact that I can have my own Pocket tank are things I love about this game. If it at minimum just had Macros and Chat bubbles at launch 50% of the negative posts wouldn't be here:(

[Chosenxeno]

I said it ruined the genre, nothing about how popular it is, it was the first mmo you played, i know, that kind of proves my point.

 

Maxed in Vanguard and Rift.

 

My Frame of reference is bigger than just WOW. Btw they both have the things I listed and they are both older games.<---This means "they" had a Template other than just WOW to see what people like in MMOs. And more reference material than WOW did at Launch.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[Bullsith]

What he doesn't get is if SW:TOR had some of that "Aging but still good game". It would be Outright better. The Character Story thing and the Fact that I can have my own Pocket tank are things I love about this game. If it at minimum just had Macros and Chat bubbles at launch 50% of the negative posts wouldn't be here:(

 

Right, what about the crappy PVP system, class balance. What about the ability animation bugs, the messed up crew skills, lack of grouping options, lack of class flexibility and so on. And you think someone gives a **** about chat bubbles? Are you serious?

[Seuria]

If I dislike a product for what I consider good reason I don't see the point in continuing to throw money at that particular service in the hope that the developer will make the changes I deem necessary to enjoy what they produce.

 

It's not a matter of patience.

 

It's a matter frugality with both my time and money.

 

Truthfully, whether I continue my subscription or not is my business, and calls for patience really aren't that effective with me.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Seuria

[Chosenxeno]

Right, what about the crappy PVP system, class balance. What about the ability animation bugs, the messed up crew skills, lack of grouping options, lack of class flexibility and so on. And you think someone gives a **** about chat bubbles? Are you serious?

 

As a healer I care very much about Chat Bubbles. /say Group For AE Heal Macro.

 

I think this game would have had a legitimate shot at WOW with LFD, A Customizeable UI and a Macro System at Launch. PVP balance and the rest could have come down the line. 90% of the complaint posts are about LFG, Addons andthe UI.

 

Also why are PVPers so misguided? You aren't the focus of any relevant MMORPG at launch ever. You are a very loud minority. I hate PVP. PVP gets my PVE skills nerfed.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[Kakarris]

My patience is all used up. I waited 4 years for this game and got this absolute pile that it currently is. *********** inexcusable.

[Rayvonuk]

If I dislike a product for what I consider good reason I don't see the point in continuing to throw money at that particular service in the hope that the developer will make the changes I deem necessary to enjoy what they produce.

 

It's not a matter of patience.

 

It's a matter frugality with both my time and money.

 

Truthfully, whether I continue my subscription or not is my business, and calls for patience really aren't that effective with me.

 

Which is fair enough, but mmos by there nature always need alot of patience until wow came out, even more so with new releases.

Eventually everyone that lacks patience will leave and we will end up with a much better community than wow ever had.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Rayvonuk

[Kakarris]

Eventually everyone that lacks patience will leave and we will end up with a much better community than wow ever had.

 

Hah! Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Seuria]

Which is fair enough, but mmos by there nature always need alot of patience until wow came out, even more so with new releases.

Eventually everyone that lacks patience will leave and we will end up with a much better community than wow ever had.

Unlikely. Some of the worst behavior on this forum is coming from the game's most ardent defenders. Like the WoW community they'll steadfastly resist any change to the game's principles (both core and secondary) and turn on anyone who disagrees.

 

In the meantime, those of us who are, by nature, helpful and good-natured but happen not to like the current state of the game are a loss to your community.

 

A friend of mine has a saying: "It is what it is."

[Chosenxeno]

Which is fair enough, but mmos by there nature always need alot of patience until wow came out, even more so with new releases.

Eventually everyone that lacks patience will leave and we will end up with a much better community than wow ever had.

 

 

But they shouldn't. It wasn't nearly as bad on "that other game released about a year ago"'s forum.

 

These guys are the World's Best RPG Developer and they had Years of reference material and the benefit of being able to exam the Template of the most successful game of this genre.

 

Excuses like"every mmorpg is buggy"(which Rift all but put an end to) and "WOW didn't have X" are a cop out. I can however understand your love of the game and your want for it too succeed. A lot of us are extremely disappointed and feel like they kinda dropped the ball.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[Bullsith]

You don't get it do you? There is no patience. The game is either great or it's doomed. WoW did not have to suffer this trial-through-fire because at the moment it came out there was nothing else better, no place people could fall back to and that was WoW's greatest advantage.

 

If SWTOR does not keep it's players after the 30 days expire then it's lost. This was their biggest chance to get people hooked and I'm afraid they missed it. This IS exactly like the Warhammer Online Launch...

[EqItchy]

This forum has an overwhelming level of complaints from customers, moreso than I have seen on any other mmo I have played at launch. I feel like it's missing many key features that most mmo's have and won't be continuing my sub. Not because it's missing these features but because the communication from the company is non existent which means they don't give a crap about it's customers. This means they won't fix anything until enough people quit to hurt the pocket book. Not the kind of company or direction that deserves anyone's patience or understanding.

[LogicalPremise]

My only question is why didn't they spend even a fraction of the 60 man-years writing the game on doing proper QA?

[Chosenxeno]

Which is fair enough, but mmos by there nature always need alot of patience until wow came out, even more so with new releases.

Eventually everyone that lacks patience will leave and we will end up with a much better community than wow ever had.

 

 

But they shouldn't. It wasn't nearly as bad on "that other game released about a year ago"'s forum.

 

These guys are the World's best RPG developer's and they had Years of reference material and the benefit of being able to exam the Template of the most successful game of this genre.

 

Excuses like"every mmorpg is buggy"(which Rift all but put an end to) and "WOW didn't have X" are a cop out. I can however understand your love of the game and your want for it too succeed. A lot of us are extremely disappointed and feel like they kinda dropped the ball.

[jinxsters]

Yeah, let's blame another game for being good and fun. Yeah, WoW is a very good and fun game. SWTOR is not, and that's the worse thing about this ****ed up situation. With their budget and WoW as an exaple to what people go for, to what they enjoy and the mistakes wow made, mistakes that they could avoid, SWTOR should have been the MMO player's Promised land. I want to enjoy this game more than I did WoW. I can't, because it's so full of mistakes and bugs that it makes it impossible.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

 

i like the game you dont like it thatis all and well. wow was a good game just got to old for me since i played it from day 1

[Perderedeus]

OP, you make too much sense. You can't be a forum-goer. To post on these forums, you have to froth at the mouth and complain about texture sharpness.

 

But really... there are many children getting up in arms about this texture issue and other minor issues in SWTOR. I say "children" because they are child-like in their actions, their thinking. They lack the patience you mention. They're really not the type of player that MMOs are designed for.

 

And that's fine. They can disagree with the game's direction or the current state. They should make mention of their displeasure and then vacate. That is the mature thing to do. Do not linger and spew vitriol or attack others who are enjoying this game. Alas, they do this... because they are so worked up about the problem that is so important to them, that nobody can possibly look beyond this major major issue they're all a-flutter about.

 

As I said, child-like.

 

If you're an MMO vet, you know who you are. You played Ultima Online for years. Or maybe Everquest. You might even still have active accounts there. You could also be a WoW veteran, since that is getting on 7 years now... and heck, you might even play on a MUD or two, too. The gist of it is... you have patience, you know what commitment is, you see value in the entire game, and $15 a month won't break you. These are the folks I salute, and I think Bioware values them most.

 

The fact of the matter is... if you compare to WoW, the vocal majority is claiming the game is a total failboat and dying fast. If you look deeper, you see millions of players still enjoying it. Same thing here. Vocal majority versus those who don't waste time to come to the forums and cry about the 25% less sharp character textures... they're too busy having fun questing, or in an FP, or PVPing, and generally not being Chicken Little.

 

So. Good on you, OP. Thanks for posting some sanity in this insane little world we have here.

[Rayvonuk]

OP, you make too much sense. You can't be a forum-goer. To post on these forums, you have to froth at the mouth and complain about texture sharpness.

 

But really... there are many children getting up in arms about this texture issue and other minor issues in SWTOR. I say "children" because they are child-like in their actions, their thinking. They lack the patience you mention. They're really not the type of player that MMOs are designed for.

 

And that's fine. They can disagree with the game's direction or the current state. They should make mention of their displeasure and then vacate. That is the mature thing to do. Do not linger and spew vitriol or attack others who are enjoying this game. Alas, they do this... because they are so worked up about the problem that is so important to them, that nobody can possibly look beyond this major major issue they're all a-flutter about.

 

As I said, child-like.

 

If you're an MMO vet, you know who you are. You played Ultima Online for years. Or maybe Everquest. You might even still have active accounts there. You could also be a WoW veteran, since that is getting on 7 years now... and heck, you might even play on a MUD or two, too. The gist of it is... you have patience, you know what commitment is, you see value in the entire game, and $15 a month won't break you. These are the folks I salute, and I think Bioware values them most.

 

The fact of the matter is... if you compare to WoW, the vocal majority is claiming the game is a total failboat and dying fast. If you look deeper, you see millions of players still enjoying it. Same thing here. Vocal majority versus those who don't waste time to come to the forums and cry about the 25% less sharp character textures... they're too busy having fun questing, or in an FP, or PVPing, and generally not being Chicken Little.

 

So. Good on you, OP. Thanks for posting some sanity in this insane little world we have here.

 

Good post this, Play for fun, not for rewards and instant gratification.

[BeeblesTV]

Time is money friend.