[Solved]Companionless Gameplay Balance

[JDSH]

Okay, so for weeks I have been thinking about this. I am one of those types that loves to solo quests, participate in world pvp and yes.... gank.

 

But its just feels weird with a companion attached to my hip all the time. I can dismiss him but unless I'm a tank spec, I get eaten up. I am a Hero, why do I take shots to the face and drop. Is my companion stronger then I am?

 

A companion should be no where near the strength of the character nor should It have the survivability. It should be a RP choice, I like my companion with me so I am going to bring her/him/it. It shouldn't be a design choice forced on us.

Your companion should do 25% of what you do. He should be utility for those who want him out while questing and for the RP storyline.

 

He/She/It should be there to "tie up one mob until you get to him" // "Heal you so you can live a bit longer" // "Assist you, damaging your target to help"

 

The damage you and your companion do should equal that of one player with out their companion. It should be a choice not a requirement just to quest.

 

TLDR;

You = 100% Potential

You+Companion = 100% Potential

 

Yes this wound entitle some kinda of debuff while you companion is active and the rework of the companion stat coefficients.

Edited January 11, 2012 by JDSH

[mandyv]

Awesome post and I agree.

 

Bioware has the habit of forcing certain gameplay ideas as their "Trademark"

 

This one does not fly in a MMO.

Edited January 11, 2012 by mandyv

[MadSquabbles]

the bounty hunter seemed ok with companion, but the sith inq just doesn't feel right with a pet.

[mandyv]

the bounty hunter seemed ok with companion, but the sith inq just doesn't feel right with a pet.

 

It certainly does. The OP is right where the choice should be the players.

 

Their should be such a large penalty for not using a companion. Sacrificing utility to remove a 25% stat debuff should play out well imo.

Edited January 11, 2012 by mandyv

[CogitoErgo]

The title of this thread should have been "DAMMIT Khem Val get outta the darn way!"

 

Cause that's exactly what he's good for, getting in the way of anything I'm trying to click.

[Maidel]

Every starwars film was a 'group' activity.

 

Luke + han

 

Han + leia

 

Han + chewie

 

Luke + R2

 

Obiwan + Anakin

 

Obiwan + Qui gon

 

Anakin + Padme

 

 

ETC ETC

 

The game just replicates that. Sure, at times it became solo - but often that was after a dramatic removal of the other person. EG - fight with darth maul - two 'characters' and then becomes one after quigons death. This sort of thing is exactly replicated in the game, accept i give my companion a little kick and she gets up again.

[Vassaggo]

The title of this thread should have been "DAMMIT Khem Val get outta the darn way!"

 

Cause that's exactly what he's good for, getting in the way of anything I'm trying to click.

 

 

 

Khem is worthless.. until you get to that certain point where he is more comical then worthless. I swear he even asked me to kill him, and I laughed at him mercilessly and said... haha...welcome to Elysium my friend.

[mangarrage]

What you fail to realize that if your companion did 25% of what you did 95% of the player base would have RQ because the game was too hard

 

In addition healer companions would be completely worthless

 

Dont get me wrong I would love to see a small group-group style game but it will happen anymore

[mandyv]

Every starwars film was a 'group' activity.

 

Luke + han

 

Han + leia

 

Han + chewie

 

Luke + R2

 

Obiwan + Anakin

 

Obiwan + Qui gon

 

Anakin + Padme

 

 

ETC ETC

 

The game just replicates that. Sure, at times it became solo - but often that was after a dramatic removal of the other person. EG - fight with darth maul - two 'characters' and then becomes one after quigons death. This sort of thing is exactly replicated in the game, accept i give my companion a little kick and she gets up again.

 

 

This isn't a Starwars film, its a MMO based in the SW Universe.

 

By that logic, Anakin should be able to choose to roll solo on a mission and not come back dead. Oh wait he does and will in a few thousand years

[Maidel]

This isn't a Starwars film, its a MMO based in the SW Universe.

 

By that logic, Anakin should be able to choose to roll solo on a mission and not come back dead. Oh wait he does and will in a few thousand years

 

Que? You what?

 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Most of the books, games, stories and audio books follow the same premise - almost all of them are about a group or pair of people rather than a solo character. The game is just replicating the common theme throughout the background.

 

I dont understand what I said that you took so controversially. Actually, I dont understand any of the last paragraph...

[JDSH]

What you fail to realize that if your companion did 25% of what you did 95% of the player base would have RQ because the game was too hard

 

In addition healer companions would be completely worthless

 

Dont get me wrong I would love to see a small group-group style game but it will happen anymore

I see you point, the overall TLDR is as I stated regardless of how its divided

You = 100%

You+Companion = 100%

[Mushons]

So let me get this straight. Because companions provide additional dps and support they give an advantage over someone who chooses not to use their companion. . .

 

And you're suggesting that because someone chooses not to use their companion all of sudden they are more powerful??

 

It makes no sense, that's why.

[iResist]

I see you point, the overall TLDR is as I stated regardless of how its divided

You = 100%

You+Companion = 100%

 

Companion would be worthless then. Why even have a companion then?

 

 

Worst idea I have ever read, most people would be completely against your idea.

[mandyv]

Que? You what?

 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Most of the books, games, stories and audio books follow the same premise - almost all of them are about a group or pair of people rather than a solo character. The game is just replicating the common theme throughout the background.

 

I dont understand what I said that you took so controversially. Actually, I dont understand any of the last paragraph...

 

 

Gotcha, edit inbound

 

By that logic, Anakin would never choose to roll solo on a mission and if he did he would come back dead. In the stories he does and is victorious.

 

All I'm saying is the companion should not be a requirement to live while questing. It should up to that player. What if their RP story is that they are a lone Jedi Shadow roaming the stars in his shuttle. His trusty employed crew to keep credits in his pockets thought trade. He leaves his shuttle to watch HoloDancers for all I care. He just wants to explore alone.

[justahdude]

I dont think i can agree with this... i have had my share of experience with mmos and know that at this point significant changes to the classes would need to be made in order to do what you are saying needs to be done.

 

First not everyone rolls a tank... tanks are made to take hits and keep crowds busy. to balance what you are asking you would have to either make the mobs squishier or make every class relatively the same with the same potential to take on everything if the player specs his class perfectly, literally forcing EVERY PLAYER to play their class a certain way for the entirety of their characters career up to level 50.

 

so yeah um no thanks i like it the way it is... see i am a DPS class i deal damage and i am rather squishy, i have a companion that can tank and i gear him out and he tanks i kill its a win win. sometimes i bring out my dps companion, and we both dps at the same time dealing more damage than the enemy can to put us away, yeah me and mine wreck face.

 

bottom line is with this system I have the option to play as I want to and can choose and change up how I want to and i dont have to ask a bunch of anti social jerks how do i play such and such class which perks do i put in my tree?

 

if you want cookie cutter classes that only really become their role at max level, you know where you belong..... and dont even try and deny it, you know it to be true. search your feelings you know it to be true.........

[JDSH]

Companion would be worthless then. Why even have a companion then?

 

 

Worst idea I have ever read, most people would be completely against your idea.

\

 

Sometimes reading the TLDR isnt enough. A companions should be for utility for or RP reasons. Not 1/2 of your characters work. You shouldn't be helpless for wanting to run with out one.

 

He/She/It should be there to "tie up one mob until you get to him" // "Heal you so you can live a bit longer" // "Assist you, damaging your target to help"

[Maidel]

Gotcha, edit inbound

 

By that logic, Anakin would never choose to roll solo on a mission and if he did he would come back dead. In the stories he does and is victorious.

 

All I'm saying is the companion should not be a requirement to live while questing. It should up to that player. What if their RP story is that they are a lone Jedi Shadow roaming the stars in his shuttle. His trusty employed crew to keep credits in his pockets thought trade. He leaves his shuttle to watch HoloDancers for all I care. He just wants to explore alone.

 

OH. Makes more sense now.

 

The game doesnt MAKE you take companions. (appart from certain missions).

 

If you like that play style simply get 3-4 levels above the questing recomendation and run solo.

 

Solved.

[gurugeorge]

Yeah, you can solo easily if the stuff is below you in level, and as you go up in level, it's more viable to solo on-level, the companion just makes it all go faster.

 

Consider playing solo "hard mode" in the game. Strikes me that's what BW intend. Some people like a challenge - well, there's your challenge, play solo!

[profaneascension]

Not wanting to use your companion is like not wanting to use an ability that's given to your character. If you don't want to use a DPS or tank companion, why not pull the ship droid out and just have him heal? Has anyone in the history of MMOs ever complained about their character being given a GCD-free heal button? You can choose not to use it, but be prepared to suffer the consequences.

[Eldyraen]

Bioware has almost always been about grouped content in some fashion as is the Star Wars universe so it fits perfectly that together should be the same. If you don't enjoy it I'm sorry but either group with real people, make yourself do it anyways, or find something else to play. They shouldn't change their approach for a few even more solo heavy players that don't want to use a companion. It's basically there to allow soloing without being forced to spec different from grouping if that is what you enjoy.

 

Buffing or debugging based on if using a pet may add to "choice" but wouldn't balance anything as what about world pvp or groups with companions? Too much to factor in and not worth the trouble due to way the game is designed.

[ApesAmongUs]

By that logic, Anakin would never choose to roll solo on a mission and if he did he would come back dead.

That would have improved episode 2 dramatically.

[JDSH]

I dont think i can agree with this... i have had my share of experience with mmos and know that at this point significant changes to the classes would need to be made in order to do what you are saying needs to be done.

 

There are going to be major design changes in the future regardless, for one the character response /ability delay and two when Hero Engine gets mutithread support. Almost every major patch in a MMO brings huge design changes. MMO's are living breathing works of art that evolve or die out.

 

First not everyone rolls a tank... tanks are made to take hits and keep crowds busy. to balance what you are asking you would have to either make the mobs squishier or make every class relatively the same with the same potential

 

This is how it is now, you trade dps for survivability or vice versa. That is general how all MMOs divide talent trees among rolls. Even in Biowards RPG games its been like that. They all have the same potential just different methods of reaching that goal.

 

 

 

so yeah um no thanks i like it the way it is... see i am a DPS class i deal damage and i am rather squishy, i have a companion that can tank and i gear him out and he tanks i kill its a win win. sometimes i bring out my dps companion, and we both dps at the same time dealing more damage than the enemy can to put us away, yeah me and mine wreck face.

 

So does that change anything for you?

He should be there to "tie up one mob until you get to him" // "Heal you so you can live a bit longer" // "Assist you, damaging your target to help"

 

He should offer the utility you are suggesting because that is your playstyle. What about my playstyle or the others in the forums asking for similar things. Are they not important because its not yours. That's a very narrow and selfish way of thinking.

 

All im saying is the choice should be of the player and the penalty should not fall on those who wish to solo quest/play or those wish to play with a companion.

 

bottom line is with this system I have the option to play as I want to and can choose and change up how I want to

So where is the choice to quest on your own?

 

 

if you want cookie cutter classes that only really become their role at max level, you know where you belong..... and dont even try and deny it, you know it to be true. search your feelings you know it to be true.........

Maybe you should spend more time in the class forums,. there are already cookie cutter builds because end game isn't just questing. Sounds like the place you want and belong is a RPG. This just happens to be a MMO

[JDSH]

Yeah, you can solo easily if the stuff is below you in level, and as you go up in level, it's more viable to solo on-level, the companion just makes it all go faster.

 

Consider playing solo "hard mode" in the game. Strikes me that's what BW intend. Some people like a challenge - well, there's your challenge, play solo!

Finally someone who gets what im saying. Now take that and add one thing. The difference shouldn't be so much. In other words a player should be given a small buff. nothing huge just enough to make questing and playing content at your own level viable or companions should get a nerf.

 

ATM i do all Group 2 req quest alone because my companion is to OP.

Edited January 11, 2012 by JDSH

[Hansuki]

Two parts:

 

First, I agree, the companion feels forced, not a choice. Im a jugg, and I die without heals. I refuse to use Quinn because I do not like him. Fortunately I leveled up with a friend who rolled a healing sorc (he dies without his tank out). I was able to 'pick' whoever I wanted, but with a healer and a tank, the choice was obvious, we needed a DPS companion, so I used Vette until I got Jaesa and shes never left my side since. Broonmark? Pierce? Not used once ever - they sew shirts for me because thats all they are good for. Now, we didn't need to use companions, but we found in much quicker to quest with them out, so we did; but the choice of which companion was always obvious. Worse, all the companions need different gear, so even the thought of picking more than one, or a different one, means more $$ down the drain in getting gear - and for what? all the endgame content is companionless.

 

 

HOWEVER

 

Point two: Im a lvl 50, and I take great pleasure watching my lvl 50 companion kill lowbies in a PVP planet like tatooine. I have sent my companion in to assassinate a jedi sitting in a his own city multiple times, since the guards wont aggro until the first blow lands. You can have a lot of fun with your companions, so I think having them is a huge plus. I just wish I more control over their level development, say, like a companion talent page, that way people have more variety to suit their playstyle. The droid companion shouldn't be for heals only either - if you could build him however you wanted through gear, and pick from a skill set, that would make him actually useful for something other that scrubbing my ship.

[Revelationjp]

The companions are part of the "story based" mmo experience that BW has created.I really think that some people just don't like the game as it's been designed. Nothing worng with that, people have different tastes. I happen to love the focus on story, and feel that the companions are an integral part of that. What I don't get is why people who don't like the game continue to complain about it, instead of finding one they do like. I've run into plenty of games i ended up not liking. They end up getting shelved and not touched again. I don't write letters to the makers demanding they remake them.