MBirkhofer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 What? you get 3s off zstrike CD. you generate focus every 6s with combat trance, you generate focus taking damage with rebuke up. And your core damage moves cost, 2 focus(1 with zen), 2 focus, and 3 focus. blade rush, blade storm, and prec strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Here look. This is the thread discussing the problems with defense/shield etc from a tanks point of view. Then consider the opposite effect for us. If defense is a useless stat for THEM, then acc is a useless stat for us. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=155034 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantsOn Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 did you really not read what I said about accuracy? It is basically only effecting offhand attacks. and vs players geared with +defense stat. Force attacks, which are a large part of all 3 builds, gain absolutely nothing from acc. Blade storm and ataru are force attacks. 1% acc increasing offhand hit chance by 1%. offhand damage accounting for 3-5% of your total damage. So yeah, that total dps loss of .05%. ouch. Wait, your right its 3% not 1. So .15%. Wait, you're saying it's impossible for anything but Strike to be dodged or parried (with main hand)? Because I'm pretty sure that's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Force attacks, which are a large part of all 3 builds, gain absolutely nothing from acc. Blade storm and ataru are force attacks. Ataru, Caut DOT, and Overcharge are force damage abilities that RIDE regular white attacks. So they all require ACC. In fact, since Watchman doesn't really use Blade Storm, Watchman needs ACC the most out of the 3 specs. Focus is the only spec that can more or less "ignore" ACC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Ataru, Caut DOT, and Overcharge are force damage abilities that RIDE regular white attacks. So they all require ACC. In fact, since Watchman doesn't really use Blade Storm, Watchman needs ACC the most out of the 3 specs. Focus is the only spec that can more or less "ignore" ACC. Actually, Overcharge is either unique or bugged. So long as the attack doesn't miss, it will apply to the target even if the attack is dodged or parried. But, every single attack that can apply it still only has a base 90% accuracy. Ignoring Accuracy is only remotely possible for Focus. Combat's damage only competes if you get a high percentage of hits on Ataru form- All offhand attacks that have a 57% base hit chance. The only skill used regularly by Watchman that is a pure force attack is Dispatch. For Ataru, you only ever use Dispatch and Blade Storm. If you don't have 100% accuracy while using Combat or Watchman, you're doing it very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Actually, Overcharge is either unique or bugged. So long as the attack doesn't miss, it will apply to the target even if the attack is dodged or parried. Nifty. So the target would be +10% accuracy, if you want the target to have a 5% chance to parry your Merciless Slash. +5% against premades with a Guardian/Jugg or Shadow/Assassin tank. Don't recall if other ACs had the -5% miss debuff. The only skill used regularly by Watchman that is a pure force attack is Dispatch. Dispatch is the execute for Sents? That should be a melee attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Actually, Overcharge is either unique or bugged. So long as the attack doesn't miss, it will apply to the target even if the attack is dodged or parried. But, every single attack that can apply it still only has a base 90% accuracy. Ignoring Accuracy is only remotely possible for Focus. Combat's damage only competes if you get a high percentage of hits on Ataru form- All offhand attacks that have a 57% base hit chance. The only skill used regularly by Watchman that is a pure force attack is Dispatch. For Ataru, you only ever use Dispatch and Blade Storm. If you don't have 100% accuracy while using Combat or Watchman, you're doing it very wrong. That is what he is saying, ataru, caut, and overload need to hit first with their "melee" hit before the 100% hit force attack/dot is applied. That said, all the attacks are 100% base, not 90%, and 67% offhand, not 57%. Again, "normal" attacks is strike and only strike. Everything else is a "special" attack, or a "force attack" so acc's ONLY purpose is to penetrate defense. Defense, which no equal level npc has. players only have 5% base. granted you can gear for more. Dispatch is a "special" attack, not force at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Again, "normal" attacks is strike and only strike. Everything else is a "special" attack, or a "force attack" Then tell me how a Sorc parried my Merciless Slash when I had +7% Accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Dispatch is the execute for Sents? That should be a melee attack. So it is, I just checked. I just assumed that at 10m range they'd have made it a force attack since the other saber throws are. Odd that it normally will kill someone who has saber ward up though, guess I'm just lucky. That is what he is saying, ataru, caut, and overload need to hit first with their "melee" hit before the 100% hit force attack/dot is applied. That said, all the attacks are 100% base, not 90%, and 67% offhand, not 57%. Again, "normal" attacks is strike and only strike. Everything else is a "special" attack, or a "force attack" so acc's ONLY purpose is to penetrate defense. Defense, which no equal level npc has. players only have 5% base. granted you can gear for more. Dispatch is a "special" attack, not force at all. Normal attack = Melee or Ranged. Special attack = Force or Tech. Please, before you embarrass yourself more, log in and press "P". Every skill marked "Melee" it's base 90% accuracy. If it says "Force", it's base 100% accuracy. The Special attack is just redundant of the Force pane. Edited January 12, 2012 by Apocalypse- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Then tell me how a Sorc parried my Merciless Slash when I had +7% Accuracy. are you sure pacify, trans, or oilslick were not involved? Maybe he was wearing assassin gear as well with +defense. wait, you said parry. not miss. A MISS is if your attack misses, thus accuracy. A parry is from defense as a stat. Then that is as such. he had defense, or trans. Edited January 12, 2012 by MBirkhofer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PantsOn Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 are you sure pacify, trans, or oilslick were not involved? Maybe he was wearing assassin gear as well with +defense. Or maybe you're just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Odd that it normally will kill someone who has saber ward up though, guess I'm just lucky. You're lucky. I've had mine miss on that and the IA/Smugg dodge buff. Rather annoying. are you sure pacify, trans, or oilslick were not involved? Can't be sure, as it was a long time ago, but I doubt it. It wasn't a cluster**** situation either. Maybe he was wearing assassin gear as well with +defense. Doubtful o.O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Blade rush. Note. "isspecialablity>true< <effectaction type="WeaponDamageFunctionType"> <slots>cbtSlot_PrimaryMelee</slots> <amountmodifierfixedmin>0</amountmodifierfixedmin> <amountmodifierfixedmax>0</amountmodifierfixedmax> <amountmodifierpercent>0.0399999991</amountmodifierpercent> <threatpercent>0</threatpercent> <standardhealthpercentmin>0.156000003</standardhealthpercentmin> <standardhealthpercentmax>0.156000003</standardhealthpercentmax> <isspecialability>True</isspecialability> <ignoredualwieldmodifier>True</ignoredualwieldmodifier> <coefficient>1.55999994</coefficient> <flurryblowsmin>1</flurryblowsmin> <flurryblowsmax>1</flurryblowsmax> </effectaction> <effectaction type="WeaponDamageFunctionType"> <slots>cbtSlot_SecondaryMelee</slots> <amountmodifierfixedmin>0</amountmodifierfixedmin> <amountmodifierfixedmax>0</amountmodifierfixedmax> <amountmodifierpercent>0.0399999991</amountmodifierpercent> <threatpercent>0</threatpercent> <standardhealthpercentmin>0</standardhealthpercentmin> <standardhealthpercentmax>0</standardhealthpercentmax> <isspecialability>True</isspecialability> <ignoredualwieldmodifier>False</ignoredualwieldmodifier> <coefficient>0</coefficient> <flurryblowsmin>1</flurryblowsmin> <flurryblowsmax>1</flurryblowsmax> Vs strike. note isspecial ablity>FALSE< effectaction type="WeaponDamageFunctionType"> <slots>cbtSlot_PrimaryMelee</slots> <amountmodifierfixedmin>0</amountmodifierfixedmin> <amountmodifierfixedmax>0</amountmodifierfixedmax> <amountmodifierpercent>0</amountmodifierpercent> <threatpercent>0</threatpercent> <standardhealthpercentmin>0</standardhealthpercentmin> <standardhealthpercentmax>0</standardhealthpercentmax> <isspecialability>False</isspecialability> <ignoredualwieldmodifier>True</ignoredualwieldmodifier> <coefficient>1</coefficient> <flurryblowsmin>3</flurryblowsmin> <flurryblowsmax>3</flurryblowsmax> Strike is the ONLY ability that is special ability=false. Strike is 90%/57%. EVERYTHING else is 100%/67% (well force attacks are just 100%) Now obviously, you DO use strike. and your offhand hits DO get improved by acc. As well as players DO have +def as a stat, and 5% base parry/deflect. So, acc does have some marginal value. Like willpower has some marginal value. you TOTALLY get 1% or more crit on force attacks from willpower at 50. Which is burns, ataru, crush, sweep, stasis of course. http://bobcat.corruption-eu.com/XMLViewer-he601v2/Viewer.htm This is an older beta build admittedly. But pretty sure this data has not changed. Edited January 12, 2012 by MBirkhofer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Are we sure off-hand is 67% on specials and not 100%? I'll see if I can snag a healer friend to help me test this tonight, but I tried testing solo last night and am very skeptical it can miss. The only misses I saw were when Doc was attacking also and I'm thinking they were his misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBirkhofer Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 No, offhands are definitely -.33 acc, and -.7 damage. 67% acc, and 30% damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Neat. I'll buy it until proven otherwise (or newer info). Now obviously, you DO use strike. and your offhand hits DO get improved by acc. Well, the offhand is statistically terrible, and I'm 80% sure that strike still gives focus even if it misses; not 100% sure on that though. So, it's probably not very relevant considering how many other focus-generating mechanisms you have at 50. So, I would say we're generally looking at 5% (enemy defense) plus an optional 5% (enemy miss debuff). Generally, most players do not stack defense since most classes use very few melee/range attacks. Edited January 12, 2012 by EasymodeX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevitan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think all the accuracy buffs in Combat are there mostly for the off-hand attacks really. For that little extra 300 (pre mitigation) damage and a 2nd chance to proc Ataru Strike (assuming it can proc on any hit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 No, offhands are definitely -.33 acc, and -.7 damage. 67% acc, and 30% damage. Yea, I just checked. I guess my accuracy was just high enough to allow for a good streak. Mobs also definitely have defense. Or at least silvers do on Corellia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csdabest Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think you were pretty spot on in one of your older posts about Combat later on with better gear. I'm a respec whore and OCD max / min'er. I have noticed a huge performance increase in Combat in terms of TTK on my test mobs at 50 with better gear. It has very solid scaling. I think Ataru Stance needs a tweak- the accuracy needs to be replaced. Opportune Attack seems like it might be bugged. It doesn't proc on every Ataru Strike. It might have an ICD that isn't listed. It is both the easiest and hardest spec to play with in my experience. It's very easy to get it to work well. It's extremely difficult and virtually impossible to maximize without a buff tracker. So much of what you do is dependent on buff durations. While it doesn't really have more cooldowns to keep track of than Watchman, their priority changes based on the remaining duration of your buffs and current Focus. Actually the accuracy of Ataru form is an amazing concept to bypass armor and do direct damage. Thing is. The tree for combat which Ataru is rooted in does offer many talents to compliment what Ataru does. If they made Zen buff the damage of the direct damage or increased the accuracy even further. Or made Combat Trance do instant direct damage or something. It would be amazng but like I said. It doesnt rescieve the compliments that shi-cho and juyo recieve in their resective trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Actually the accuracy of Ataru form is an amazing concept to bypass armor and do direct damage. Thing is. The tree for combat which Ataru is rooted in does offer many talents to compliment what Ataru does. If they made Zen buff the damage of the direct damage or increased the accuracy even further. Or made Combat Trance do instant direct damage or something. It would be amazng but like I said. It doesnt rescieve the compliments that shi-cho and juyo recieve in their resective trees It doesn't bypass armor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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