[Official High Resolution Textures Post] Can we get a clarification on this?

[MargulisAZ]

"So no, we won't have high resolution textures in a 2012 AAA game anytime soon."

 

From what I read it's not a "anytime soon" thing, and just simply a "never" thing.

[they]

No one does.

 

I've said it once in this thread already: Look at 90% of the 'design' choices Apple makes. For example, with the original iPhone: It lacked MMS messaging, not because they couldn't implement it, but because they didn't have an elegant solution for it yet, and thus chose not to include it. Look at the latest iPhone: It doesn't include '4G' network antennas, because they pull too much power from the battery, and thus they couldn't ensure a good baseline for battery life. Sure, the next iteration probably will have it, but by then, they'll have a better solution for power management.

 

There are plenty of reasons for limiting choice when it comes to design, especially in software.

[CalvinDu]

I've never played WOW, but I just youtubed some videos of it maxed out and it honestly looks better than TOR.

 

Surprise, surprise..

 

A game as old as WoW has better textures than this game and runs smoother to boot.

 

 

It is simply and absolutely ridiculous.

[JonnyFS]

I was holding off but have to state that the new armors and texture updates that wow has are better than the current swtor armor textures everywhere including the dressing room.

 

No im not going back to wow its just a obvious thing you can just see.

 

 

lol. I like swtor, but it sucks we cant have a high rez option. The just need to * the high rez option and people with crappy computers should know not to choose that option cause it will run like cr.ap for them.

Edited January 11, 2012 by JonnyFS

[Throrgrim]

I'm very disappointed and just chanceled my subscription. It's the only thing EA/BW understands.

[MargulisAZ]

Really disappointed in this. I too thought that the graphics would be like represented in the progression videos, but unfortunately thats not the case.

 

Also crazy how the game has multiple instances per zone, yet still cant load high res textures?

 

The engine must have some SERIOUS issues if is forced to do the instancing, can't handle the graphics, and maybe that's also why there is such little amounts of scripted events for npc's and mobs? What a shame.

[Merwanor]

If the textures are so demanding, give us at least the option to choose to use high quality textures, and make it a check box like in Dragon Age 2 that clearly states that this is a very demanding graphical option and that it can have a heavy performance hit. Not just take the choice out of the game. This is very much against what Bioware stands for is it not, to choose for ourselves.

 

Or as stated before by someone other than me, give us the option to show our player character in high quality, other players characters are not as important. But the character we play is whom we look at all the time and it should not require much computer power to render only 1 character in high textures.

[gabrielhead]

My experience in this game will be based off the quality of it's content and game play, not graphics. I don't agree what Bioware did, however I would not want to play a pretty looking game that sucks

 

My experience with any service i pay for is if you lie to me, im not the type of person who comes back for more. All screenshots need to be removed, and replaced with shots taken inside the current client build, on a comp with recommended specs.

 

Im going to use my 7 remaining days to recreate as many ss on this site and all review sites with my in game characters, and send them to anyone who would have even a remote reason to care. After that if i still feel slighted im going to call my CC company and have a chat about a charge back.

[PjPablo]

I've said it once in this thread already: Look at 90% of the 'design' choices Apple makes. For example, with the original iPhone: It lacked MMS messaging, not because they couldn't implement it, but because they didn't have an elegant solution for it yet, and thus chose not to include it. Look at the latest iPhone: It doesn't include '4G' network antennas, because they pull too much power from the battery, and thus they couldn't ensure a good baseline for battery life. Sure, the next iteration probably will have it, but by then, they'll have a better solution for power management.

 

There are plenty of reasons for limiting choice when it comes to design, especially in software.

 

Difference is you knew you weren't getting those features when you ponied up the money for Apple's product. Can you say the same here?

[RyceTOR]

From the 20112 events thread:

 

However, keeping the game in the public eye, meeting and interacting with the community and getting new people interested in the game are also very important to us. After all, I'm sure the majority of us want to see the game survive and prosper for a long time to come. Public events help that to happen - along with marketing initiatives, PR work and a host of other activities.

 

As you work to keep the game in the public eye and get new people interested in the game ... I wonder which set of textures you'll be using. I challenge you to do so with the level of graphics / textures / details they will actually experience during game play. There's a reason you will not do so ... that reason should be paramount in your discussions around how immediately you will address this problem.

 

 

 

 

Hey everyone, thanks for bearing with us as we investigated the concerns raised here.

 

After investigation, it seems that the confusion here is a combination of a UI issue that's been resolved and a feature that's working as intended, but the reason why it's 'working as intended' needs explanation.

 

...{{snip}}...

 

Stephen, firstly thanks for the lengthy description of whats going on. I know you're the messenger here, but I have to call foul on this.

 

I bought a brand new highest-end gaming PC with the 3x the needed amount of everything and latest and greatest everything - JUST FOR THIS GAME. My GAMING computer eats SkyRim at all the highest settings for breakfast (and then some), but you're telling me in SWTOR my only option is to look at textures that literally make me ask (yes, I've literally asked this of people) why BioWare hasn't hired artists who could be bothered to draw straight lines and color inside of them?! That's the measure of quality you want to force in your product even for customers who have high end gaming systems?!

 

If this is 'working as intended' and the impact is actually understood ... that's a pretty big problem.

 

I realize this is an MMO, but despite being the new comer aiming to set the bar higher ... it has the worst textures of any other MMO I've ever played (even when I played them on far less powerful systems than I have now).

 

I appreciate your desire to ensure everyone's experience, but the 'solution' here is EXTREMELY over zealous (to the point of causing problems and frustration to your customers) if even the latest and greatest GAMING systems out there are left unable to even tell what the armor REALLY looks like in the preview pain. I have to have my companion character try it on just to know what it probably really looks like. Otherwise, the lines are fuzzy, colors washed out and haphazardly jetting out of their place. Drawn lines that would otherwise convey depth are completely absent.

 

Other AAA MMO titles allow for this lower level of detail for those systems which cannot handle more, but they allow high end systems to leverage their power (which we, your customers, have paid dearly for).

 

At some point, my client performance is my issue to solve not yours.

 

There NEEDS to be an option (you can have it disabled it by default) for us to elect to take the risk of a performance hit and turn on high res textures. If there is no mechanism for this then your controls have gone too far.

 

Look at the examples posted to the forums. It's unacceptable.

 

I'm really really upset by this answer. I nearly cannot believe it.

[Unruhe]

You're going to have to address this, and quick. Frankly, I'm not at all impressed with the fidelity and level of detail of the graphics in this game. It is, visually, about as appealing as World of ThatOtherGame.

 

I can promise you that World of ThatOtherGame looks better. I'm not a huge fan of WoTOG's art style, but their texture work pisses all over Bioware, then dates its mom.

 

If the difference in quality is still hard to see, take a look at what my TOR character is supposed to look like.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Unruhe

[Poin_Dex_Tenobi]

Well at least we got the answer 90% of us knew was coming. I am relieved to FINALLY FINALLY have an honest answer to this.

 

Sorry, but I personally dont think there is much honesty in Stephen Reids answer at all. I think its a load of bullcrap. Instead of giving an honest answer they choose the PR answer that isnt fooling anyone.

 

Hard to respect a company that flat out lies to its playerbase.

[Redorbz]

We are paying this company our hard earned for a QUALITY product, we did not get it. Between the bad textures and the countless bugs, we are not all beta testers. And we DO have a choice. We as consumers have the right to choice, from going to the retail store and having an option of over a dozen different brand of product to going to a restaurant and ordering whatever we want on the menu. Other games are the same, where we have the CHOICE to change the graphic settings to what our rigs can handle. They have stripped us of this choice by just "assuming" that these textures wouldn't run on even higher end rigs. Their game engine is not Frostbite 2, its not even the one they used for DA2, there should be no reason as to why this can't be run in high textures on a high end machine.

 

Apple? Product? neither are correct, were paying for a service. One which was falsly advertised nontheless jeesh.

[Skwark]

Disappointed really with the answer and currently Im seriously thinking about the option to resub or not after the 30 days period. I consider myself a graphic geek/whore/whatever and the lack of high ress textures does really lower the joy I suck out of this game...

[Skylerr]

I've said it once in this thread already: Look at 90% of the 'design' choices Apple makes. For example, with the original iPhone: It lacked MMS messaging, not because they couldn't implement it, but because they didn't have an elegant solution for it yet, and thus chose not to include it. Look at the latest iPhone: It doesn't include '4G' network antennas, because they pull too much power from the battery, and thus they couldn't ensure a good baseline for battery life. Sure, the next iteration probably will have it, but by then, they'll have a better solution for power management.

 

There are plenty of reasons for limiting choice when it comes to design, especially in software.

 

There are some relatively good reasons to limit choice in some isolated cases. The question is whether it was a good decision in this case.

 

I can't see how it could be considered a good decision in a PC MMO... choice is pretty much the gold standard in graphic settings in PC games (we love our toggles and sliders) and in nearly every case where choice was superficially limited it resulted in hugely negative feedback.

 

I understand that developers need to be concerned about backlash from users trying to turn settings up unreasonably high but that is little more than an arguement for adding disclaimers and/or hiding some settings (not blocking them at a level that is nearly impossible for us to work around). It is inconceivable that Bioware would be so out of touch with the PC gaming world in this respect.

 

The above point doesn't even touch upon the issue of Bioware misrepresenting SWTOR through the majority of their promotional media (gameplay video/screenshots).

Edited January 11, 2012 by Skylerr

[ItsToof]

This is the first time since SWG ive seen devs convert fans into a raving mob....

 

Wait, what is it with the Star Wars license that promotes stupid decision making? Its like these devs went to the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksman and Leadership course

[eskachig]

I'm very disappointed, though not really surprised I guess. In this day and age, this sort of graphical fidelity is pretty sad. I can't think of any recent MMOs that look so bad when it comes to character graphics.

 

Which is really too bad, because the art direction is great for the most part.

[RachelAnne]

Thanks for the update Stephen.

 

 

I did not study IT or anything, but I build a pc for 600 last month and if I can do this, then everyone could. What I am trying to say is, that you dont need a highend pc for games atm. With a 600 euro pc, you can play just everything fine until the new console generation comes out. Your game does currently run at the fps cap in open world and at around 60-70 fps at fleet and pvp. If you tweak your engine a bit further it will probably be around 80 there.

When I do enable the high res textures on my ship, you know the holo trick - then my fps go down by 10-15 fps. So even with your high res textures I would still be above 60 fps which would be sufficent I think and this is just the fleet and hutball - at the open world it would proably still be 111 fps.

 

An option where people could adjust the rendering distance, draw distance, textures at cut scenes and during gameplay would really be appreciated as there are many people who can afford a pc for 600 euro.

 

Those that cant or wont, can still play the game in less quality - its a win/win stuation for your company.

 

 

It is just very sad that my char has a different armor in cut scenes and during gameplay. The colour is totally different and it feels wrong. But also that annoying grass pop up is not fun. I mean my pc can run it so why dont you let me change these things?

 

As far I understand it is possible with that engine, just let people choose what they want to see.

 

 

The game is really great, but that my char has different clothes and the problem with the grass and draw distance really influence my fun at this game a lot.

[Zyreen]

I am a bit late to the party, however...

 

I have to say, that the explanation you gave is very poor.

 

Fist of all, all your pictures on the website has AA on and use high ress textures which can not be used in game. I do consider this to be very missleading to the customers.

 

Second,

If your reasoning about whole problem is performance, can you please explain me, why everytime I play PVP in warzones, my FPS goes to half? And that is only with 16 players there. How am I supposed to enjoy world pvp where I can meet 50 players?

 

It simply looks like, that your engine is running like a piece of poo. And is not capable to render more characters efficiently, and that is a huge issue, because this Is MMO. If I am running arround alone, I do cap engine at 110fps most of the time.

 

Just before some people come and defend. I do have very good PC. And I wanted to enjoy this game in great details. But some textures and their resolution is just awfull. My spec:

 

Icore 7 at 3,5ghz

Geforce Gtx 570

8Gb ram

X-fi Titanium HD soundcard

SSD revodrive x2

 

And do not even get me started about sound issues in warzones or with speeders etc... I do have choppy, or cutted sounds most of the time and it cause me an headache.

 

Lastly, better textures are more of an memory issue rather then performance. Polygon count, effects etc.. Do affect FPS alot, however higher resolution textures are much more memory demanding rather then performance.

[dionaea]

I assume you will be removing the High res screenshots from the site that market the game as something that its not. And asking the reviewers to do the same.

 

Yes Bioware, this would be the only correct thing to do. Your advertising is false.

[Zezel]

This is the first time since SWG ive seen devs convert fans into a raving mob....

 

Wait, what is it with the Star Wars license that promotes stupid decision making? Its like these devs went to the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksman and Leadership course

 

It's called lying.

[JonnyFS]

I can promise you that World of ThatOtherGame looks better. I'm not a huge fan of WoTOG's art style, but their texture work pisses all over Bioware, then dates its mom.

 

If the difference in quality is still hard to see, take a look at what my TOR character is supposed to look like.

 

Totally agree, its a piss poor compaired to that lol. A shame.

[they]

Difference is you knew you weren't getting those features when you ponied up the money for Apple's product. Can you say the same here?

 

Absolutely. Everyone was so convinced that they were only seeing "medium" textures in the game, since conversations used higher-resolution ones. When in fact, the whole time, people have been getting "high" resolution textures in the game. Just because they're not the same textures used in the cut scenes, or that they don't match what those people expected "high" to be, doesn't mean that you aren't getting what you paid for.

 

The thing is, the answer he gave us is probably pretty accurate: There was probably a plan to remove the 'medium' option, since it no longer existed, and what everyone has been running around with is already "high". Once people were told that they're already using "high", they're upset because they believed there's a mythical option of "better than high" -- when no such option is intended to exist.

 

No where when you bought the game was it touting about how it had three tiers of texture resolution, no where were you promised 'conversation-quality textures' in regular gameplay.

 

He gave the answer, and people didn't like it. They feel as if they're missing out on something they're somehow entitled to.

[knightblaster]

Maybe the concern is that some people's machines will get damaged by the high setting?

 

Still, it seems logical to give the choice, if people are willing to risk overheating their rigs let them have at it.

[Zimms]

Wow, could they micromanage us a little more?

 

Why not put the high option in and if it bogs down people's computers, let them drop it down to medium?

 

So dumb...