Hairless Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If you can clear everything and are clearing everything without meters, you certainly dont "need' anything. There was raiding once upon a time without things like voice comms or addons. Are you clearing everything? Have you killed all bosses in nightmare mode? Come back after you do that and tell me you don't need combat logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 <<< Yo. So one then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How many people do you know that raid without Vent/Mumble? One of the best guilds on my old server in WoW played without voice comms. It actually helps. You should try it sometime. Instead of listinging to raging mouth breathers, you can actually concentrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How many people do you know that raid without Vent/Mumble? My Guild woke the sleeper without Vent and Mumble and anyone who says that was lol 0 skill and zerg fest has no clue what waking the sleeper entailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 There really is no point arguing with people who don't understand why combat logs are needed for progression raiding for the average raiding guilds. Average guilds. The guilds that can't clear everything in every difficulty within the first 2 weeks. What are you going to do in the 3rd week? Move onto the next game and ask for more help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 One of the best guilds on my old server in WoW played without voice comms. It actually helps. You should try it sometime. Instead of listinging to raging mouth breathers, you can actually concentrate. So a handful is your answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Are you clearing everything? Have you killed all bosses in nightmare mode? Come back after you do that and tell me you don't need combat logs. We havent started raiding as we had people gone for holidays. We pugged with 5/8 of us and cleared normal and hard EV. I doubt Nightmare would be much more difficult to complete. You dont need combat logs if you know you have competent players. A few hard modes will tell you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My Guild woke the sleeper without Vent and Mumble and anyone who says that was lol 0 skill and zerg fest has no clue what waking the sleeper entailed. So again, one guild in a game over a decade old? So then compare that with all the people who do in fact use Mumble to raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My Guild woke the sleeper without Vent and Mumble and anyone who says that was lol 0 skill and zerg fest has no clue what waking the sleeper entailed. Jett , I wouldnt waste my time. I know im done doing it. Kids love using crutches. There is no getting around it. They use crutch after crutch. Things like boss mods and decursive, then turn around and Q to the Q about how easy stuff is and how its just not challenging. I raided all through wow without either. It actually makes the game fun. Looking for boss animations, emotes. Actually cleansing people. chromaggus without decursive was fun. Just a different breed of gamers. The "On a silver platter" crew has arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My Guild woke the sleeper without Vent and Mumble and anyone who says that was lol 0 skill and zerg fest has no clue what waking the sleeper entailed. Ah but he killed many that night and it took a GM to login and put him to sleep again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 We havent started raiding as we had people gone for holidays. We pugged with 5/8 of us and cleared normal and hard EV. I doubt Nightmare would be much more difficult to complete. You dont need combat logs if you know you have competent players. A few hard modes will tell you that. You know more and more Raiders are actually stepping up and saying that; I mean when you have folks in your own demographic saying it....it pretty much destroys the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So again, one guild in a game over a decade old? So then compare that with all the people who do in fact use Mumble to raid. People like to socialize. Its not a requirement to use vent or even addons. Does it make it easier? Sure. Some of us though, like a challenge. You are sitting here saying its impossible. We gave you examples of how its not. A handful is still more than 0, which is what you are claiming can complete content without crutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ah but he killed many that night and it took a GM to login and put him to sleep again. Yea, verily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Jett , I wouldnt waste my time. I know im done doing it. Kids love using crutches. There is no getting around it. They use crutch after crutch. Things like boss mods and decursive, then turn around and Q to the Q about how easy stuff is and how its just not challenging. I raided all through wow without either. It actually makes the game fun. Looking for boss animations, emotes. Actually cleansing people. chromaggus without decursive was fun. Just a different breed of gamers. The "On a silver platter" crew has arrived. At least there's a few of the old hard-core raiders left in this world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You know more and more Raiders are actually stepping up and saying that; I mean when you have folks in your own demographic saying it....it pretty much destroys the argument. Yea, I know. I think they need to re-think the difficulty modes pretty quick. I love the rides, but right now, there is no reason to even have a 2nd tier of difficulty, much less a 3rd one, because they are all too simplistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 People like to socialize. Its not a requirement to use vent or even addons. Does it make it easier? Sure. Some of us though, like a challenge. You are sitting here saying its impossible. We gave you examples of how its not. A handful is still more than 0, which is what you are claiming can complete content without crutches. You guys continue to miss the point. The need vs. want argument is idiotic. If it makes you feel better, mentally replace every instance of 'need' in a post with 'want'. Then feel free to make arguments about whatever it is you're advocating. Also a tip, I never said anything was necessary to complete content. Slow down, take a deep breath and just respond to what I've posted instead of your interpretation of what I've posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devorin_Sargothi Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Jett , I wouldnt waste my time. I know im done doing it. Kids love using crutches. There is no getting around it. They use crutch after crutch. Things like boss mods and decursive, then turn around and Q to the Q about how easy stuff is and how its just not challenging. I raided all through wow without either. It actually makes the game fun. Looking for boss animations, emotes. Actually cleansing people. chromaggus without decursive was fun. Just a different breed of gamers. The "On a silver platter" crew has arrived. Yeah, dern kids with their wheely mouses and flat monitors. Who's measuring his epeen now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darekar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 personally i would be happy with a simple system: put training dummy on our ship, or anywhere really, and add a kind of dps meter/healing meter on it. that way those of us who care can test out spec and rotation to maximise ourself outside dungeon while keeping in-dungeon group clean of any debate. Also those log would be private so other cannot see them. Now i know some will start saying that guild will require people to screenshot/fraps their number on the dummy before inviting to guild...but only super hardcore guild would do that, and its very likely that if you are opposed to other seeing your performance, you would not want to be in those guild. Yes i love to min-max, trying out spec and doing the best i can, and i encourage anyone who wish to group up to do the same, it makes both you and your group a lot more happy in the end. But i understand...kind of..people who want, no matter what but i think a personal dummy outside dungeon would make everyone happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You guys continue to miss the point. The need vs. want argument is idiotic. If it makes you feel better, mentally replace every instance of 'need' in a post with 'want'. Then feel free to make arguments about whatever it is you're advocating. Also a tip, I never said anything was necessary to complete content. Slow down, take a deep breath and just respond to what I've posted instead of your interpretation of what I've posted. All we have is interpretations. I don't know you from a hole in a sock. lol. Its definitely "NEED" and "WANT". People have raided just fine in this game without any type of combat log whatsoever. Its proven that it is not NEEDED. People WANT them for a multitude of reasons. To maximize their potential To belittle others To assure only the top DPSers/Healers are in group To set false walls in place which dont exist in this particular game The bad outweighs the good. Why must you worry about everyone else. Worry about yourself. If you spend more time worrying about others, there is no time for self reflection or imporving. Use your logs and be the best you can and hope the others do as well. At the end of the day, if you are clearing the content and doing it easily, why in the world do you WANT to know what someone else is doing. So you can say "lolGetCarried" or "ubad?". There is no positive outcome at all to wide open damage meters / logs as it just breeds negativity and open hostility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Jett , I wouldnt waste my time. I know im done doing it. Kids love using crutches. There is no getting around it. . Yeah I know man and you know if that is their play-style that's cool...the issue comes up when I am put in the position Where I'm having my numbers checked whether I want to or not. I mean hell most LFD's in WoW are like an episode of mean girls....it's sad and pathetic to see young adults and grown ups ganging up on some poor schmoe that is a couple hundred points off on his DPS....hell put on your Big boy pants and meet the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yeah, dern kids with their wheely mouses and flat monitors. Who's measuring his epeen now? Kid is just my word. I use it as a noun to describe pretty much everyone. Don't get butt hurt mang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHats Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Yeah I know man and you know if that is their play-style that's cool...the issue comes up when I am put in the position Where I'm having my numbers checked whether I want to or not. I mean hell most LFD's in WoW are like an episode of mean girls....it's sad and pathetic to see young adults and grown ups ganging up on some poor schmoe that is a couple hundred points off on his DPS....hell put on your Big boy pants and meet the challenge. No doubt. Most fail to realise a simple concept. There are a lot of "kids" who are try-hards that go all out on the meters.... to only pull agro or not move out of boss abilities and cause a wipe. There are a lot of "players" that might bring a % or 2 less DPS than the top guy, but they are more attentive to detail and dont stress the healers out by not moving or controlling their threat. (See what I did there Devorin_Sargothi?) Damage Meters , Gear score does not a great / bad player make. Edited January 11, 2012 by jHats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yea, I know. I think they need to re-think the difficulty modes pretty quick. I love the rides, but right now, there is no reason to even have a 2nd tier of difficulty, much less a 3rd one, because they are all too simplistic. I do think we will see some returning of Nightmare modes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You guys continue to miss the point. The need vs. want argument is idiotic. If it makes you feel better, mentally replace every instance of 'need' in a post with 'want'. Then feel free to make arguments about whatever it is you're advocating. Also a tip, I never said anything was necessary to complete content. Slow down, take a deep breath and just respond to what I've posted instead of your interpretation of what I've posted. It's been while but I'm sure the OP stated WANT and INSIST.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No doubt. Most fail to realise a simple concept. There are a lot of "kids" who are try-hards that go all out on the meters.... to only pull agro or not move out of boss abilities and cause a wipe. There are a lot of "players" that might bring a % or 2 less DPS than the top guy, but they are more attentive to detail and dont stress the healers out by not moving or controlling their threat. (See what I did there Devorin_Sargothi?) Damage Meters , Gear score does not a great / bad player make. Once they get the meters, they'll cry for Boss ability info.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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