Truth be told...I'd swich to scoundrel

[Doc_Panzer]

After hitting level 50, with all the frustration of corso dying just about every pull during the later levels, (Would a single companion heal be that much to ask?) the PvP using the sharpshooting spec (dark days indeed), I just look around and think "Is the grass really greener with every other class?"

 

I'm DF right now, with every slot purple PvP gear, and I hold my own. But any class that can heal will kill me one on one. (given equal gear), If I try to pour it on, I'll run out of energy pretty quick and then it's over.

 

I never use cover at all, it's pointless. Every skill that requires you to be in cover might as well not exist in PvP. Movement is life, and anyone who tells you different is pulling your leg. Being snared is a bad thing in PvP, it often means death. My class makes me self snare....? then as a benefit gives me the same defensive stats of any class in heavy armor that isn’t snared? Really?

 

Ok, I got the whole glass cannon thing, i give up survivability for DPS. The only thing is, no other class gives up anything for DPS. I gave up healing and invisibility for DPS. but it turns out that I gave up DPS, invis and healing for .... 30% offhand dps.

 

If I was this monster cannon, something people feared on the PvP battlefield, I could see that I have the least survivability of ANY class in the game. But I'm not. I’m the 50 that all other classes can kill without being 50 yet because I’m the squishiest.

 

I've alot invested in the toon and I'm not prepared to level another character. But if I could be a scoundrel, Id make the switch in a heartbeat.

 

I wish i knew more about the class, to make this type of choice at level 10 for the rest of the characters life? Bah, it makes me sad to think what I gave up.

[swagnificent]

Currently a level 23 gunslinger and so far its getting really fun, whats the deal man?

 

I see gunslingers wreck havok in the battle grounds. Hunker down and immunnity to interrupts is pretty sick.

[Arodi]

Currently a level 23 gunslinger and so far its getting really fun, whats the deal man?

 

I see gunslingers wreck havok in the battle grounds. Hunker down and immunnity to interrupts is pretty sick.

 

yea but just about every class can throw you out of cover quite easily and unless you talent it, its 20 secs of immunity

[Arodi]

@OP But if you chose a playstyle in which you team up with others and spec into Saboteur for example, or a SAb/DF hybrid that gives many slows, Mez and stuns? Than in teamplay you can still be very useful and in pvp you play in teams quite a lot in practice anyway. Coming out of the match with some of the most deaths, okay, that's us: squishy and no combat stealth.

[Karast]

After hitting level 50, with all the frustration of corso dying just about every pull during the later levels, (Would a single companion heal be that much to ask?) the PvP using the sharpshooting spec (dark days indeed), I just look around and think "Is the grass really greener with every other class?"

 

I'm DF right now, with every slot purple PvP gear, and I hold my own. But any class that can heal will kill me one on one. (given equal gear), If I try to pour it on, I'll run out of energy pretty quick and then it's over.

 

I never use cover at all, it's pointless. Every skill that requires you to be in cover might as well not exist in PvP. Movement is life, and anyone who tells you different is pulling your leg. Being snared is a bad thing in PvP, it often means death. My class makes me self snare....? then as a benefit gives me the same defensive stats of any class in heavy armor that isn’t snared? Really?

 

Ok, I got the whole glass cannon thing, i give up survivability for DPS. The only thing is, no other class gives up anything for DPS. I gave up healing and invisibility for DPS. but it turns out that I gave up DPS, invis and healing for .... 30% offhand dps.

 

If I was this monster cannon, something people feared on the PvP battlefield, I could see that I have the least survivability of ANY class in the game. But I'm not. I’m the 50 that all other classes can kill without being 50 yet because I’m the squishiest.

 

I've alot invested in the toon and I'm not prepared to level another character. But if I could be a scoundrel, Id make the switch in a heartbeat.

 

I wish i knew more about the class, to make this type of choice at level 10 for the rest of the characters life? Bah, it makes me sad to think what I gave up.

 

I understand 100%. Its not that the class is super gimp or unplayable or that you can't do very well at times, it is simply just not as good as all the other classes out there, except for maybe mara / sentinel who are in the same boat.

 

The cover system just doesn't work in pvp and without it we are missing a key feature to our class. Even in PvE is situational at best.

 

Its the knowledge that you'd be doing far better on anything else. I'm already slowly leveling an alt smuggler to go scoundrel with. There is a rumor that they might buff DF for scoundrel, to make it mirror DF for Gunslinger. If that turns out to be true it will make Gunslinger entirely useless in the grand scheme of things.

 

If I had the option to switch to scoundrel I would in a heart beat as well. Gunslinger is simply not worth it right now.

 

I really challenge anyone to say what the Gunslingers strong point is, because from no matter what angle you look at it another class can do it better as things are. All of the dps trees are really mirrors of each other, they all share the same base abilities. A sorc dot is much the same as a DF dot, one ground target AoE the same as another. The defining features are the resource mechanics and the additional class mechanics. Heavy armor, stealth, force vs tech abilities, run speed buffs, cover.

[Alveia]

The cover is useless complaints are just silly. One of the most popular (arguably THE most popular) classes, in pvp right now, is the Sage / Sorcerer. They have to stand still to cast spells and spam Force Lightning / Telekentic Throw. It's no different than dropping into cover to use a cast-time shot.

[jamble]

The cover is useless complaints are just silly. One of the most popular (arguably THE most popular) classes, in pvp right now, is the Sage / Sorcerer. They have to stand still to cast spells and spam Force Lightning / Telekentic Throw. It's no different than dropping into cover to use a cast-time shot.

 

Except they can heal. Its super annoying to see them run out of los and spam heals on themselves, sure they are weak when not specced for it but it keeps them alive longer.

[Karast]

The cover is useless complaints are just silly. One of the most popular (arguably THE most popular) classes, in pvp right now, is the Sage / Sorcerer. They have to stand still to cast spells and spam Force Lightning / Telekentic Throw. It's no different than dropping into cover to use a cast-time shot.

 

Except that there abilities are not tied into cover, and that if they get CC'd they do not have to enter back into cover. Also since they do no have cover they do not have the issue of lagging into and out of cover if they are being channeled on, rooted, or slowed.

 

In addition to that in place of cover they get a super runspeed buff, offspec heals, and ranged stuns vs melee stuns.

[Mazikeen]

I wish i knew more about the class, to make this type of choice at level 10 for the rest of the characters life? Bah, it makes me sad to think what I gave up.

 

Game has been officially out for under a month. Roll an alt.

[Mazikeen]

The cover system just doesn't work in pvp and without it we are missing a key feature to our class. Even in PvE is situational at best

 

Works fine for me

[Karast]

Works fine for me

 

You on a pvp server in a premade group fighting premade groups?

[Alveia]

Except that there abilities are not tied into cover, and that if they get CC'd they do not have to enter back into cover

 

Cover is off the GCD so I don't see why this matters really.

 

Also since they do no have cover they do not have the issue of lagging into and out of cover

 

This sounds like an issue with your game / computer / whatever, I never have this issue.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Alveia

[Awesomo]

Agree completely. Not that Gunslinger is majorly weak but yeah watching Scoundrels/Operatives tear people a new one AND have the option to heal raids/hardmodes would be too much to pass up.

[Ontos]

Pro-tip: Don't solo, bring friends, and stay mobile while not in cover. Gunslinger is the BFG, very much like the Abrams tank is to infantry. If you got friends distracting, you can poor on the fire power without a worry. So long as the enemy isn't concentrating on you, you can be an asset to the team (like Voidstar, you can stop guys from defusing/planting bombs...must be frustrating when for 20+ seconds guys can't do anything while they right click doors but I can't kill them either.

 

As for PVP, I refuse to participate until something is done about that stupid force field when you respawn after a death. Tired of being blocked out for 30+ seconds every time just because you are killed when the entire point is to kill or be killed but then you can't do anything when you are killed.

[Awesomo]

Cover is off the GCD so I don't see why this matters really.

 

 

 

This sounds like an issue with your game / computer / whatever, I never have this issue.

 

Do you PvP in WZs in the last week? Cover feels like it has an invisible 3 second cast time sometimes.

[Alveia]

Yes, on a daily basis, no issues.

[dracophoenix]

I have both a level 42 Sniper(Gunslinger equivalent) specced as a Marksman. You can ROFLstomp people in pvp. Thing is, you're dps. As dps, you are squishy. You WILL NEVER ESCAPE THAT as DPS. That being said, you can spec more defensively (bonuses to shield probe + cover bonuses) that will keep you alive for a few extra hits. Key is to take full advantage of the 35 meter range.

 

An example of how I have my Marksman specced. When he goes into cover, he gets an instant snipe. From there, follow up shot, Ambush, follow up shot. So, you have Instant shot, Instant shot, 1.5 sec shot (if snipe crit, which is you lazed it, it will), instant shot. At that point, if the opponent is at 30 percent or less health, Take Down (another instant shot). Sniper/Gunslingers can be ridiculously painful if played right; however, they are a very particular play style. You have to be twice as sneaky as any class that gets an actual stealth.

 

Also, 1v1 is doable, it is a matter of knockbacks, kiting, and rooting. Someone gets up in your grill, you can spec that your ambush (or gun slinger equivalent) knocks them back if they are within 10m. Follow Through (instant shot), and Legshot after to root. Then Laze, Snipe (instant shot if you do this all RIGHT AFTER planting into cover), follow through. If the bugger is still standing after that, and he gets close, Debilitate (CC stab). Run, cast Explosive Probe and your overcharge shots while you're running to take cover again, repeat.

 

That is one scenario, and IDEALLY, you will always avoid 1v1 scenarios and focus on helping your group DPS down quicker. The advantage of that, is if you're focusing on what everyone else is, then if the target targets you, your group has your back (lot of bad PUGs, so it is 50/50 shot on this).

 

TL;DR: Snipers/Gunslingers can be amazing if played correctly, just like any other class. After playing three alts, I am amazed at how relatively well balanced the classes are.

[t_rall]

The grass is greener for everyone. Class envy is part of life for MMO players.

 

Scoundrel life in PVP isn't all roses and mayhem. If you're against anyone that is worth their salt (equal level player who knows how to break a stun), you've got your work cut out for you. If there is more than one person around, you're dead. Yes, scoundrels have good burst coming out of stealth. One quick stun to a scoundrel, and they're shut down. Get any amount of distance from us, and we're rendered useless (we have zero gap closers). Then, there's stealth, which is near impossible to re-enter due to the way you stay in combat during PVP. Being a scoundrel can be very, very frustrating. Sure, you get the occasional lucky crit streak that blows someone up, but those streaks, which are what PVP videos and forum rants focus on, are more the exception than the rule.

 

Now, if I start in on PVE, you'll really know how brown the grass can be on the scoundrel side of things. The amount of melee cleaves on bosses is huge, not to mention other AE attacks. If you get blown back in a fight (which happens a lot), you've got to slowly run back into melee. All that burst from PVP? It's gone in PVE. Sure, scoundrels do decent damage, but we're not blowing everyone away with our awesomeness. Let's not forget our complete dependency on positioning, especially if there are adds to take down. If there are adds and you have to kill them, say goodbye to back blast, as you'll be going toe to toe with mobs.

 

In a nutshell: stick with what you've got. It's easy to only see your shortcomings, especially when only the highlights of other classes are shown to you. If you're really miffed, play a scoundrel or switch to Empire, like I did (I want to check out the sniper), to get a new story and a new play through.

[Mazikeen]

You on a pvp server in a premade group fighting premade groups?

 

I'm on a RP server fighting in WZs against level 50s

 

What server I'm on and whether the groups are premade or not is irrelevant. Cover works. Cover can be broken. Cover also has advantages. My main is a BH and I can tell you for a fact that it stops jumping to targets in cover as well as making Grapple useless

 

Learn to play or play a different class

[dracophoenix]

Pro-tip: Don't solo, bring friends, and stay mobile while not in cover. Gunslinger is the BFG, very much like the Abrams tank is to infantry. If you got friends distracting, you can poor on the fire power without a worry. So long as the enemy isn't concentrating on you, you can be an asset to the team (like Voidstar, you can stop guys from defusing/planting bombs...must be frustrating when for 20+ seconds guys can't do anything while they right click doors but I can't kill them either.

 

As for PVP, I refuse to participate until something is done about that stupid force field when you respawn after a death. Tired of being blocked out for 30+ seconds every time just because you are killed when the entire point is to kill or be killed but then you can't do anything when you are killed.

 

Energy field is necessary for objective based WZ. It is part of the strategy required for the map. If you see that your team is being picked off, switch to survival mode, stay up as long as possible to be able to DoT anyone trying to click the door. If you all die at once, you're all waiting at that door.

 

One of my favorite strategies is distraction, as a Sorc. Get enough people DoTed and annoyed with you, that they'll follow you and become so focused on killing you, that they move away from the objective + gives time for team mates to respawn. You have to be bloody annoying though, and be at your max 30m distance when you start the game. Not to mention, you want all your CDs up.

[Karast]

Yes, on a daily basis, no issues.

 

Your playing a different game. Its not my system either. Maybe there are no sorcs on your server. I see 5+ per WZ, premades with nothing but sorcs all over the shop.

 

But if you have a slow on you or if your getting channeled on it bugs out cover. Be it the take cover ability or crouch. It takes you 1-2 seconds before you fully enter cover, and then it can be another 1-2 seconds before your abilities actually start to trigger. Its effectively a 3 sec self stun.

 

All you see is lighting spam and that's that. My only hope is to avoid cover like a plague dot, burn my CC breaks and get out of LoS of them. Even with a guard and healing that's the only option.

 

If you focus one the others start healing, if you get one low it uses its super speed breaks LoS and heals up.

 

That's how the game is right now for me, maybe your server is different. But every time I enter cover even if its for a quick 1-2 abilities it gets me killed. Because they go for right off the bat every time, I am the number 1 target on the assist train because I drop like a rock and there is nothing I can really do about it.

[Karast]

I'm on a RP server fighting in WZs against level 50s

 

What server I'm on and whether the groups are premade or not is irrelevant. Cover works. Cover can be broken. Cover also has advantages. My main is a BH and I can tell you for a fact that it stops jumping to targets in cover as well as making Grapple useless

 

Learn to play or play a different class

 

All you have to do is wait 20 seconds and LoS me. Then you can toss out a ranged stun or knock back, or have a groupmate do it and you can pull me down. That's it. My only way to keep you at bay after those 20seconds is to break LoS, and if I am not in a full dot spec, I am not doing any dps.

 

And it is relevant the issues a player faces in PvP and the issues in PvE are different. Fighting players who are serious about PvP is a lot different from fighting players that are not. It all comes down to group play.

 

I have no idea how you can be claiming that cover works because it simply does not in any form of organized pvp.

 

I'm having to guess from a great number of replies I see in this thread and these forms that people are not actually pvp'ing all that much on their gunslingers, and that there must be a massive difference between the pvp and pve servers when it comes to premades and warzones.

 

Because I am serious when I say its not a skill / learn to play issue. It just does not work in organized PvP, and every single Sniper / Gunslinger I know on my server that runs in premades is in the process of re-rolling right now. Dedicated pvp'ers who run set premades are dropping a class that they've gotten to 50 and geared up with champion and in one case battlemaster gear to re-roll.

[t_rall]

Because I am serious when I say its not a skill / learn to play issue. It just does not work in organized PvP, and every single Sniper / Gunslinger I know on my server that runs in premades is in the process of re-rolling right now. Dedicated pvp'ers who run set premades are dropping a class that they've gotten to 50 and geared up with champion and in one case battlemaster gear to re-roll.

 

What are your expectations in PVP? I guarantee that a lot of people feel the same as you about their class. Do you think scoundrels have it easier? Sages? Sorcerers?

 

Group PVP adds a dynamic that a lot of people don't do well in. If you're doing arranged teams, are your partners peeling off of you? Are your tanks shielding you? Are your healers healing you? Why do you reference 1v1 situations when you're talking about group play? Unless an entire team is LOSing you, switch targets. Playing the objectives of a map is more beneficial than getting kills.

 

All of these guys in their champion gear didn't get it by being on the fail train. They had to actually do decently along the way, or they'd never have earned their gear. Maybe the teams your playing against are more organized? It can definitely be a L2P scenario, as there are tons of slingers/snipers that are happy with their role in PVP.

[Karast]

What are your expectations in PVP? I guarantee that a lot of people feel the same as you about their class. Do you think scoundrels have it easier? Sages? Sorcerers?

 

Group PVP adds a dynamic that a lot of people don't do well in. If you're doing arranged teams, are your partners peeling off of you? Are your tanks shielding you? Are your healers healing you? Why do you reference 1v1 situations when you're talking about group play? Unless an entire team is LOSing you, switch targets. Playing the objectives of a map is more beneficial than getting kills.

 

All of these guys in their champion gear didn't get it by being on the fail train. They had to actually do decently along the way, or they'd never have earned their gear. Maybe the teams your playing against are more organized? It can definitely be a L2P scenario, as there are tons of slingers/snipers that are happy with their role in PVP.

 

I've said my peace and my some valid points based on my own experience. That's all I can really do.

 

If you get stuck in on a pvp server in a premade group and start fighting the heavy sorc / BH premade teams that are flooding my server then perhaps you'll come to understand my view points. But for the moment, for me, and for a lot of the other gunslingers and snipers I know it just isn't work, and it's not worth playing a gimp class in the hopes of a future buff / nerf. They do not always come in a timely fashion.

 

But I can honestly say that there is not 1 sniper any of my guild's premades worry about, and every single gunslinger and sniper that I know is re-rolling, and these are 50 players in champion and battlemaster. It's just not working for them either.

 

So for anyone hitting a wall with the class, its not just you. It just doesn't work as well as everything else out there right now.

[Magistra]

"I'd switch to scoundrel" is also what I thought when I hit 50. Then I started grouping up a bit, queue for some warzones... and I realized how much damage I could deal as a gunslinger without having to bother with positioning(Of course there are places where it's better to take cover than others, but that aside, you don't need to be up close to your opponents to deal your main DPS ability, or you don't have to be behind your target(which is sometimes confusing because of the warzone lag)).

 

I have no idea if scoundrels can deal as much damage as a gunslinger can with the same gear level, but as of right now, my gunslinger is unmatched damage-dealing-wise in almost every warzone I queue for. I know dealing a lot of damage won't win you warzones, but I always go for the objective and don't focus on pointlessly picking off clueless targets.

 

Gunslingers can deal so much burst damage almost instantly, we can pin down targets using leg shots, we can survive and deal massive damage in overwhelming situations using take cover, hunker down(or whatever the name of this ability), our personal shield, the group shield, black market mods(VERY usefull, don't be fooled! I thought alacrity was next to useless for gunslingers but -.3 sec for charged burst increases your DPS by a LOT... I find myself winning 1v2 situations often, or survive 1v3, 1v4 for over 10 seconds. If 4 people are focused on killing you for over 10 seconds, it means your team is overwhelming the other team somewhere in the battlefield.

 

As I said earlier, when I hit 50, I wanted to reroll a scoundrel(Which I did, although I'm not leveling him up anymore), but now I stick to my blasters and wreak havoc in warzones