thatguyya Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Does anyone know what the soft and hard caps are for crit n surge for BH are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBarnsen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I want to know it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damarak Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I only know that the hard cap for surge is 100%. I believe the soft cap is 85% before DM starts hitting badly. I've heard 45% on crit is soft, but I can't confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBarnsen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 i read about the 85% soft cap on a sniper blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werdan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I only know that the hard cap for surge is 100%. I believe the soft cap is 85% before DM starts hitting badly. I've heard 45% on crit is soft, but I can't confirm. Crit soft cap is around 45% and hard is 50% from what I'm told. Crit multiplier is around 90% soft and 100% hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmgl Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Crit soft cap is around 45% and hard is 50% from what I'm told. Crit multiplier is around 90% soft and 100% hard. Thats 45% buffed right? I keep hearing 40% unbuffed is the # to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werdan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thats 45% buffed right? I keep hearing 40% unbuffed is the # to avoid. Unbuffed and with CSC active, I'm sitting at 40.45%. I'm pretty capped as to how much more crit I can fit in my gear. I think I might still have a few mods slots to swap out and I could easily get another 51 crit from the Battlemaster earpiece but it's not going to really add much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatguyya Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 ya im sitting at 40.04 crit and 83% surge and just making sure i didnt over do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iram Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Can someone explain a "soft" vs "hard" cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobafetea Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Being new to mmos, I'd also like to know what hard and soft cap is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djinnerman Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A soft cap is either the point at which a stat stops providing a particular benefit but continues to provide others and a hard cap is a point beyond which a stat becomes useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouthlessDonny Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Both are limits of sorts. The difference is that when you surpass Soft Cap, you still get benefits, but diminished. For example, for every two points you have above the soft cap, it only counts as one. So, you go 50 points above soft cap, and the game will act as if you had 25 more points. But I don't know how soft cap works in this game though, that's just an example, there are different soft cap systems. However, when you go past hard cap, you get zero benefits. So it doesn't mind wether you spend one more point or a thousand more. Hope it helped. Although someone else might be more succint, and also know about specific caps for TOR, I was speaking in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobafetea Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Being new to mmos, I'd also like to know what hard and soft cap is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlybox Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Let me give you an example from Rift, I'm sure you could figure it out, since I can't think of a way to really explain it eloquently. Crit soft cap in Rift was 45% and after that severely diminished stat contributions to crit other than % based buffs. Like "When you crit, you gain an additional 5% crit to your attacks). So after getting 1187 Crit Rating (in which dex/str was being weight into), only %base buffs would push it past 45% in an efficient manner. Gaining more dex, or more +crit would do nothing for you except for improving crit by 0.0X% increments. It would then hard cap at 60% where even %based buffs wouldn't bypass the soft cap. And neither stat contributions or %based buffs would advance your crit past 60%. Hope that helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmgl Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) ya im sitting at 40.04 crit and 83% surge and just making sure i didnt over do it Without at least a combat log I doubt we'll be able to min max exact #s. I keep hearing the numbers 33%-35% crit, 80%-85% surge, 110% special attack accuracy, and all to power after being thrown around. Right now I've got all that except my crit is a tad low unbuffed at only 31% atm. It will be 32%-33% in full Tier 2 and closer to 35% in full Tier 3. Surge and Power will stay about the same as they are now, Aim will go up. Heat generation feels fine with even 31% unbuffed crit though. I would like a couple of extra points just because it seems like 35% really is the sweet spot for it. For heals I really think I'll try going full on crit/surge as Alacrity really doesn't help the problem of limited heat being the bottleneck while Crit/Surge increase throughput a ton without increasing heat generation. Power seems less effective on heals then on DPS. Edited January 11, 2012 by Lightmgl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuskake Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 http://www.cs.uta.fi/~tp79800/kuvat/tor/torcraft.PNG Here's some excel art based on the http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=63362 topic Calculations are based on level 50 character and formula And some analyzing: First picture shows how crit % is formed from crit rating, from 0 to 2250 crit rating (0 Aim) Second picture shows how effective surge is for crit multiplier, also from 0 to 2250 Third is activation speed, not really that useful for dps mercenary but it's there still. Fourth and final is actually titled wrong, it's how crit % is coming from Aim (or your primary) stat, starting from 1000 and up to 3000+ (and 0 Crit Rating) - Only small returns from primary stat to crit - Surge rating soft cap strikes really early, from what I can tell. Balance between power, surge and crit rating seems to be: 50 - 100 to surge rating, after that you are better off with crit rating and power. 300 - 400 to crit rating, after that power gives more juice. And here's how crit rating vs power or crit rating vs surge affect to damage: http://www.cs.uta.fi/~tp79800/kuvat/tor/powercrit.PNG First is Shoulder Slam skill Max damage including possible crit damage with 1700 Aim and 50 Surge I tested with 1000 points to spent across Surge, Crit Rating and Power and best damage comes from: 700 Power, 50 Surge, 250 Crit Rating Second is 1700 damage done with random skill and Aim is 1700, Crit % starts from 34% and ends at 16% Best balance point between crit rating and surge is around 100, but when power comes to equation, even 100 might be too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmgl Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) http://www.cs.uta.fi/~tp79800/kuvat/tor/torcraft.PNG Here's some excel art based on the http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=63362 topic Calculations are based on level 50 character and formula And some analyzing: First picture shows how crit % is formed from crit rating, from 0 to 2250 crit rating (0 Aim) Second picture shows how effective surge is for crit multiplier, also from 0 to 2250 Third is activation speed, not really that useful for dps mercenary but it's there still. Fourth and final is actually titled wrong, it's how crit % is coming from Aim (or your primary) stat, starting from 1000 and up to 3000+ (and 0 Crit Rating) - Only small returns from primary stat to crit - Surge rating soft cap strikes really early, from what I can tell. Balance between power, surge and crit rating seems to be: 50 - 100 to surge rating, after that you are better off with crit rating and power. 300 - 400 to crit rating, after that power gives more juice. And here's how crit rating vs power or crit rating vs surge affect to damage: http://www.cs.uta.fi/~tp79800/kuvat/tor/powercrit.PNG First is Shoulder Slam skill Max damage including possible crit damage with 1700 Aim and 50 Surge I tested with 1000 points to spent across Surge, Crit Rating and Power and best damage comes from: 700 Power, 50 Surge, 250 Crit Rating Second is 1700 damage done with random skill and Aim is 1700, Crit % starts from 34% and ends at 16% Best balance point between crit rating and surge is around 100, but when power comes to equation, even 100 might be too much. That confirms my suspicion because 250 crit rating puts you right into the range I was suggesting of around 30%-35% crit depending on your aim. I am surprised Surge had such bad return though. I was pretty sure it was gonna be a solid stat until around 200 rating. Surge will be hard to quantify because you will have to break it down including the Merc 2PC which will improve its value for Tracer Missile above other attacks due to the extra 15% crit chance on it. The 250 crit rating is also gonna be around the sweet spot for heat reduction from crits too. You still gain beyond that but the uptime gained per point of crit rating falls of significantly once your Tracer is above 50% crit and your unload is above 33% crit. Keeping Surge down will be difficult as we seem to be loaded with Surge/Power or Surge/Crit stats depending on gear. Theres very little gear on it that is Crit/Power which would replace the Surge pieces.... Aim also appears to suffer from Diminishing Returns in the crit department though the gain in Damage Bonus does not. This complicates things as it means there is a point where Power > Aim. Edited January 11, 2012 by Lightmgl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewilson Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi Tuskake, So if I'm understand this correctly, from your calculations all these people saying that surge rating is our best stat after aim and crit are wrong? We should all be stacking power after 50-100 surge rating? Or am I misunderstanding your post? Thanks ardnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmgl Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Hi Tuskake, So if I'm understand this correctly, from your calculations all these people saying that surge rating is our best stat after aim and crit are wrong? We should all be stacking power after 50-100 surge rating? Or am I misunderstanding your post? Thanks ardnut Surge is still going to be a solid stat but it is gonna cap off at some point due to diminishing returns too. The surge diminishing returns kick in quite early as the stat is so cheap in the first place. 50 still seems very low, I can't imagine it would be worse than power until at least 100 or 150 when you account for the 5% crit buff and the 15% crit to Tracer. It may also vary from attack to attack depending on the coefficient for how much dmg Power adds since that varies by skill. Shoulder Slam is a bad example since it has the highest coefficient for Power to damage of all of our attacks. Eventually we will all be stacking power, its just a matter of how much Aim, Crit Rating, and Surge Rating we want to get before we start doing that. Edited January 11, 2012 by Lightmgl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuskake Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi, since there are no DPS calculators, we cannot say sure if surge is really that useful or not. My calculations and gut feeling suggest that surge isn't that useful stat even though there are plenty of surge gear. I'd say get 50-100 surge rating and rest of the points equally to crit rating and power. Hi Tuskake, So if I'm understand this correctly, from your calculations all these people saying that surge rating is our best stat after aim and crit are wrong? We should all be stacking power after 50-100 surge rating? Or am I misunderstanding your post? Thanks ardnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonSkuzzie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) To explain it simple for those that asked (you guys are throwing all theory crafting stuff towards the guys that are new to mmo's) Lets say each 1 point gives you 1% crit a soft cap of 30% would mean that with 30 points you will have 30% If you want to go above 30% it will cost more then that 1 point per % ,and this amount keeps going up the more % you get untill you reach the "hard cap" after which you wont be able to increase it anymore through points, but only with using buffs like +5% crit chance. simple linup: 1 point = 1% crit 30 points = 30% crit (soft cap) 32 points = 31% crit 60 points = 40% crit (hard cap) 90 points = 40% crit (wont increase more after the hard cap, so you lost 30 points for no increase) The above is just an example. On-topic: I am healing as a merc, so my stat priority's might be different, but i think the same can apply to dps aswell. Get your surge to 80-85% Get your crit to 35-40% Get as much power as you can after the above. with 85% surge as a healer i get double crits (15% more from healing talents), which is all i need. Double crits makes it so power will be far more important then a few % extra surge (which in theory i can get, seeing how my 15% gets applied after the hard cap). Just a small example. I crit heal rapid heals for around 4.5 - 5k, if i however use my relic with +250 power, my crits get up to around 5.5 - 6k. Just to show how much power scales, like alot!! For me the best mod setup is: +power on the mod, +crit/+surge on the enhancing. Do note that pvp sets and tier pieces have 2 types of enhancing. You have those that add around 16 endurance but higher secondary stats (crit and surge) and those that have 32 endurance but a lower amount of secondary stats. I prefer higher secondary stats, thats why i'm happy to have found 3 pvp helmets already (seriously, buy the combat healing helmet en get the mods out!!!) Edited January 11, 2012 by DonSkuzzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewert Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Tuska, you should switch alacrity to the inverse, as in an "output" curve not a "casttime" curve, so that it is easier to compare to the others. A reduction of cast time actually gets more powerful the higher it gets, thus for alacrity the gradual DR is actually the least amongst the stats. Going from 100% to 90% is an increase of 11.1% to output, going from 90% to 80% would be an additional increase of 12.5% to output. Was going to make a post to say that there are no softcaps in TOR, only gradually diminishing returns in the whole shebang, but Tuska's graphs make that point perfectly. There are hardcaps, definitely the 100% surge for example, but they aren't hardcaps in the sense of "other-mmos" as they are unreachable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TempestasSilva Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Subscribed Edited January 23, 2012 by TempestasSilva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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