Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

[Roane]

Despite the probable futility, I have tweeted again. I will continue to hope, because I'm just naive like that.

[VorpalK]

I agree with this too, there are some people who probably just think they have been attacked so retaliate. I don't think the person who first killed me was doing it on purpose because he was the right level for the area and was probably just lining up an attack when I hit him.

 

But if someone gets reported for this once they should be warned and monitored.

 

Or ... nothing should happen to them at all and the devs should tell us this is intended so we can actually decide if it is worth sticking around or not.

 

They need to tell us something. Soon. I don't care if a fix is around the corner or not. I want to know the intent. If this is intentional, than PvE servers don't exist, and I have no interest in playing a PvP centric game.

[Ruapehu]

Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead.

 

World of Warcraft. Even if a flagged player walks into your AOE you will not be flagged unless they are the direct target of your AOE.

[VarnieTsk]

They need to tell us something. Soon. I don't care if a fix is around the corner or not. I want to know the intent. If this is intentional, than PvE servers don't exist, and I have no interest in playing a PvP centric game.

 

Same here. They promised us "PVE" servers, not "PVE if you're really really careful" servers.

[_Darkstar]

I have used #swtor_exploit in my latest Tweet.

 

I am hoping to word exploit might trigger them into doing something.

[Rochand]

A little bump to the top.

 

Bioware, WAKE UP!!!

 

We know you are moderating this thread so you are reading our posts, but why the ****** aren't you telling us anything???

 

Even something as simple as:

"It's a bug, we are looking into it"

or

"It's suposed to work that way"

 

Would had gone a long way, please don't do the same mistake that NCrap...sorry NCSoft has been doing the last 7 years you see what kind of mess they are in right now in the EU/NA region.

[_Darkstar]

Even a post from a moderator saying "I don't know the answer but I will bring this to the attention of someone who does for you" would be really well received

[VorpalK]

Even a post from a moderator saying "I don't know the answer but I will bring this to the attention of someone who does for you" would be really well received

 

Really. We're not asking for a ton here. We know these threads have been seen. Not to be told anything is really disheartening and doesn't bode well for the players going forward on ANY issue.

[Rochand]

Depressing:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2167613#post2167613

 

This thread: 74 pages, been moderated and no answer from Bioware.

That thread: 2 replies from Bioware after just 4 minutes.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Rochand

[Sabarok]

Depressing:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2167613#post2167613

 

This thread: 74 pages, been moderated and no answer from Bioware.

That thread: 2 replies from Bioware after just 4 minutes.

 

Customer Service is a different section where a different type of employee reads.

[Rochand]

Customer Service is a different section where a different type of employee reads.

 

Still doesn't stop the ones that reads this over at Bioware to make someone further up the chain aware of this thread.

[KrazieFox]

Eve Online is a PvP Game, it has, at most, about 40K Active Accounts. Accounts, NOT players. Many, including myself, have more than one account. It is also perfectly safe to PvE & never PvP in Eve.

 

The fact is, no PvP MMO will ever achieve more than a couple of hundred thousand subs, ever. Well, maybe if Free to Play.

 

BioWare are trying to compete with World of Warcraft with, what can only be assumed, a PvP Centric game.

 

I played Aion for 3 months from launch, but when I finally accepted that all the End Game was PvP, I realised I had no place there & left, I never looked back (although I do miss my characters). I simply have no interest in PvP.

 

I am fairly confident that the same thing will happen here too. When players realise that PvE Servers are Gank-Fest Servers, for the enjoyment of PvP players then they too will leave.

 

The first real contender for competition to World of Warcraft will be a monumental Flop - simply because of a short-sighted oversight.

 

I somehow managed to get myself Flagged in Lord Gratham's Estate, Dromund Kaas. I have absolutely no idea HOW it happened either, I just noticed a 'new' icon against my portrait. Then a sense of dread.

 

I can see a lot of people walking away due to this, & then BioWare are going to have to actively try to convince these players to come back.

 

Two new mmo's are due for release in the next 6 months, BioWare cannot afford to sit back & become complacent. They need to make a statement on whether this is a bug or intentional. So players can make up their minds as to whether they wish to stay or leave.

[daemian]

Eve Online is a PvP Game, it has, at most, about 40K Active Accounts. Accounts, NOT players...

 

The fact is, no PvP MMO will ever achieve more than a couple of hundred thousand subs, ever.

 

For the record, EVE has over 350,000 active accounts and the record for concurrent accounts logged on to the server (that's at the same time) is over 63,000, as of last year.

Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian

[KrazieFox]

For the record, EVE has over 350,000 active accounts and the record for concurrent accounts logged on to the server at one time is over 63,000.

 

 

Not in the 3 years I've been there

 

Out of interest what is the Record for concurrent accounts logged into World of Warcraft at one time? I would hazard a guess a few more than 63,000

[daemian]

Not in the 3 years I've been there

 

Out of interest what is the Record for concurrent accounts logged into World of Warcraft at one time? I would hazard a guess a few more than 63,000

 

That doesn't make the statements you posted above true.

 

And if you played Eve in the last 3 years, those are the facts.

Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian

[Sabarok]

Still doesn't stop the ones that reads this over at Bioware to make someone further up the chain aware of this thread.

 

They probably have, but we aren't likely to see a reply until one of these occurs:

 

1) They get overwhelmed with in-game harassment tickets putting the priority of this at a level comparable to Ilum PvP which would cause the higher-ups to get directly involved in the PR. Or a forum campaign a few times larger than what this topic has so far, comparable to the ability delay issue (over 1600 replies in one thread, with multiple threads also reaching large numbers). It's a steady building of attention, so it just might eventually reach the threshold where we get a response. Or maybe not.

 

2) The issue gets patched

 

To get a response anytime else would likely involve a few hours of work spread across several people to figure out what the correct response should be, and BW isn't going to spend the time doing that unless there was a reason.

 

They aren't even going to do a "working as intended", because a post like that comes with the impression that the community feedback won't change anything. I've been following the Dev Tracker virtually non-stop since launch, and I think I've only seen a single "working as intended" (The issue was Smuggler/Agent ACs standing cover in an open area with no visible forcefield blocking the Jedi/Sith force-leap).

 

From what I've seen, there are pretty much 3 types of BW forum users:

1) CS who stick to the Customer Service section to resolve problems

2) Senior staff who have the authority to comment on anything, but are usually too busy to deal with the forums. They're posts are fairly random

3) CR whose main job it is to gather posts and pass them along to devs as feedback. For them to post, it would either have to be in the patch notes, or they'll have to send out a request for information to the devs and wait for a reply, if they bother.

 

CR has felt quieter in posting over the last few weeks than it felt at the start. I saw the creation of the Suggestion Box as being done to help CR in finding the posts that actually require being passed on to the devs. I've yet to see a single BW post to the Suggestion Box, including the thread there on this topic. I expect that it's treated as mainly read-only by BW to gather feedback.

[iamnoobplzhelp]

Let me start by saying I hate PvP - So I play on a PvE server to avoid it. I am also not flagged for PvP.

 

So why on earth can I accidentally catch a wandering enemy player in my AoE and automatically get set into PvP mode?

 

Not only do I not want this (Hence finding a PvE server!) but it takes me by surprise and I am dead before I even realise what is going on! Then I have to wait 5 minutes for the flag to wear off, during which time I can't go and quest because I know there are invisible enemy players around?

 

How did this feature make it live?

 

Even worse I hear is that if a PvP flagged friendly walks into your heal patch then you are flagged for PvP automatically! This is absurd and needs changing quickly because as I am getting higher in level I am seeing more and more PvP flagged players and I do not want to be restricted to single target attacks for fear of accidentally hitting someone.

 

I can forgive the bugs but this is going to ruin the game for me if it isn't changed soon.

 

I have to agree with the OP on this. You should have to manually enable your PVP flag to be able to attack someone on the opposite faction who is marked for PVP. I have accidentally marked repubs PVP by running across a few imperials on Ilum (you know the area where the imperial and republic npcs are fighting each other?). I usually don't gank them, but I have a few times. And generally only if I felt I was attacked on purpose.

[Kfab]

1) pay attention to your surroundings

 

2) dont hangout where you saw a flagged enemies

 

3) avoid the global combat zone on the planet

 

4) join a guild that actually does more then socialize

and callem in to reverse gank .

5) learn to pvp as most pvp gear is better then drops

 

6) make your own gear from oranges and stay up on mods

 

7) dont do whine with out some bread and cheese

 

8) dont snivel in open chat as u will become a mark for all the griefers on the server

 

9) swg rip,rift yawn 8 bucks a month for socializing, city of hero's whats that.

 

10) run forest run

 

1) Wait patiently for a mob to respawn.

 

2) Tag the mob first while adds spawn in.

 

3) Two Republic players flag themselves and flag me when they step in my AoE.

 

4) I'm dead before I even realize what is going on.

 

5) There was no running. Just dead. lol

[Rochand]

Not in the 3 years I've been there

 

Out of interest what is the Record for concurrent accounts logged into World of Warcraft at one time? I would hazard a guess a few more than 63,000

 

EVE has the record when it comes to how many people has been online at the same time on the SAME server although I think Star Trek Online was close to breaking that record during launch (they might have broken it, but without official numbers it doesn't count) since they also run a single server type system.

 

There are many games around the world that have had way more than 100.000 players online at the same time, but not on the same server.

[VarnieTsk]

They probably have, but we aren't likely to see a reply until one of these occurs:

 

1) They get overwhelmed with in-game harassment tickets putting the priority of this at a level comparable to Ilum PvP which would cause the higher-ups to get directly involved in the PR. Or a forum campaign a few times larger than what this topic has so far, comparable to the ability delay issue (over 1600 replies in one thread, with multiple threads also reaching large numbers). It's a steady building of attention, so it just might eventually reach the threshold where we get a response. Or maybe not.

 

2) The issue gets patched

 

To get a response anytime else would likely involve a few hours of work spread across several people to figure out what the correct response should be, and BW isn't going to spend the time doing that unless there was a reason.

 

They aren't even going to do a "working as intended", because a post like that comes with the impression that the community feedback won't change anything. I've been following the Dev Tracker virtually non-stop since launch, and I think I've only seen a single "working as intended" (The issue was Smuggler/Agent ACs standing cover in an open area with no visible forcefield blocking the Jedi/Sith force-leap).

 

From what I've seen, there are pretty much 3 types of BW forum users:

1) CS who stick to the Customer Service section to resolve problems

2) Senior staff who have the authority to comment on anything, but are usually too busy to deal with the forums. They're posts are fairly random

3) CR whose main job it is to gather posts and pass them along to devs as feedback. For them to post, it would either have to be in the patch notes, or they'll have to send out a request for information to the devs and wait for a reply, if they bother.

 

CR has felt quieter in posting over the last few weeks than it felt at the start. I saw the creation of the Suggestion Box as being done to help CR in finding the posts that actually require being passed on to the devs. I've yet to see a single BW post to the Suggestion Box, including the thread there on this topic. I expect that it's treated as mainly read-only by BW to gather feedback.

 

Interestingly, the two major issues you mentioned that got the recent attention were both issues that the pvpers were loudly complaining about. (not saying they weren't important, mind you, just saying). I'd bet you dollars to donuts that if this was an issue that was adversely affecting the pvp community it would get addressed in no time at all. I know some people think I'm exagerating this aspect of the problem, but I really have noticed a certain bias and pvp leanings by the devs of this game. Not just in this. Many aspects of the game.

 

This issue needs to be, not only addressed, but needs to be acknowledged. At the very least someone could come in and say they've seen it and passed it along. Anything!

Edited January 26, 2012 by VarnieTsk

[EJedi]

ITT, a bunch of idiots who think all servers should be PvP and do not understand the concept of PvE servers.

 

WoW had this problem early on, but quickly corrected the oversight.

 

Every unintentional forced-flagging exploit in WoW has been given priority, and people who griefed with it were dealt with.

[VarnieTsk]

Oh look, this thread got a response from Georg Zoeller on page 2. Guy was asking why he can't have a workbench on his ship.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2119752#edit2119752

 

I'm rapidly losing what little bit of patience I had left with this

 

 

PS: My mistake. Make that page 1. Fifth post on the page. Oh there's an issue more important than ours. /sigh

Edited January 26, 2012 by VarnieTsk

[Sabarok]

Interestingly, the two major issues you mentioned that got the recent attention were both issues that the pvpers were loudly complaining about. (not saying they weren't important, mind you, just saying). I'd bet you dollars to donuts that if this was an issue that was adversely affecting the pvp community it would get addressed in no time at all. I know some people think I'm exagerating this aspect of the problem, but I really have noticed a certain bias and pvp leanings by the devs of this game. Not just in this. Many aspects of the game.

 

This issue needs to be, not only addressed, but needs to be acknowledged. At the very least someone could come in and say they've seen it and passed it along. Anything!

 

That's only by chance. Those things didn't get attention because it affected PvP. They got attention because of the large number of players affected. PvP is really just 1 large group of players all doing the same thing, while PvE players are more diversified. All this means is that when something goes wrong with PvP, there's a larger number of players that can complain about it.

 

While this issue threatens everyone on a PvE server, the number of players who have actually been affected is minuscule. BW will judge how important this issue is to fix based on 1 metric: How much time they spend responding to harassment tickets.

 

I'm sure it'll get fixed at some point, but if BW isn't seeing many harassment tickets, they are only going to see it as a "potential" problem, and not an "actual" problem. This is also the same reason why they aren't likely to spend the few hours needed to create a proper response on the topic. It's been BW's position that they can't respond to every issue, so we hardly ever see them respond to any.

[VarnieTsk]

That's only by chance. Those things didn't get attention because it affected PvP. They got attention because of the large number of players affected. PvP is really just 1 large group of players all doing the same thing, while PvE players are more diversified. All this means is that when something goes wrong with PvP, there's a larger number of players that can complain about it.

 

While this issue threatens everyone on a PvE server, the number of players who have actually been affected is minuscule. BW will judge how important this issue is to fix based on 1 metric: How much time they spend responding to harassment tickets.

 

I'm sure it'll get fixed at some point, but if BW isn't seeing many harassment tickets, they are only going to see it as a "potential" problem, and not an "actual" problem. This is also the same reason why they aren't likely to spend the few hours needed to create a proper response on the topic. It's been BW's position that they can't respond to every issue, so we hardly ever see them respond to any.

 

Yet they respond to a guy wanting to know why he can't have a workbench on his ship. lol. Page 1, 5th post. Well that's ok. I just cancelled. I have 22 days left.

 

I've decided that this is just not the game for me. I'll watch the boards and maybe if they ever change that one aspect, I'll come back because I do like the game otherwise.

 

I'm a bit sour-grapes over this being considered not important enough to warrant any kind of response whatsoever. It just confirms for me where their mindset is regarding pvp. Which means it will naturally permeate all aspects of the game, if it doesn't already.

 

A simple "we're looking at it" would have sufficed for the time being and I wouldn't have felt the need to cancel right away. I just feel it's the only way to make my statement, since they're obviously not interested in what we have to say on these threads. Workbenches on ships is far more important.

[VorpalK]

Yet they respond to a guy wanting to know why he can't have a workbench on his ship. lol. Page 1, 5th post. Well that's ok. I just cancelled. I have 22 days left.

 

I've decided that this is just not the game for me. I'll watch the boards and maybe if they ever change that one aspect, I'll come back because I do like the game otherwise.

 

I'm a bit sour-grapes over this being considered not important enough to warrant any kind of response whatsoever. It just confirms for me where their mindset is regarding pvp. Which means it will naturally permeate all aspects of the game, if it doesn't already.

 

A simple "we're looking at it" would have sufficed for the time being and I wouldn't have felt the need to cancel right away. I just feel it's the only way to make my statement, since they're obviously not interested in what we have to say on these threads. Workbenches on ships is far more important.

 

I'll be doing the same very soon. I resubbed because I wanted to give them a chance to address this, but I think I've been more than patient. If I unsub, I won't be buying any further Bioware games. Their reputation will be in the toilet for me, and I will never trust them with my money again.

 

A studio lives and dies by its reputation. Particularly one that has created a potentially very successful MMO.

 

Years and years ago, Origin systems, now also owned by EA and the name of their online sales or something, made the mistake of not immediately addressing PvE players concerns over rampant ganking. This in a game that WAS intended to be PvP only.

 

Though Ultima Online is still (I believe) a very minor going concern, it never recovered from the hemmoraging of subscriptions that eventually forced them to create Trammel.

 

If issues like this are not at least communicated on in some way, I see similar problems ahead, rather than the "wow killer" this game could be.

 

Rift thought they had a really successful launch after a month too...

Edited January 26, 2012 by VorpalK