Setanian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No, since the former isn't easy mode, and the latter isn't especially hardcore. There's nothing hard about getting hit in the head with a hammer. It's just unpleasant. Recount shows you alive readout of your dps, interrupts and boss interrupts. It's telling you everything you need to know to beat it. How is that *not* easy mode. Give me a break. That has to be the biggest care bear tool I ever heard of in a raid. Now I see (I just checked the yoyotube on it) why you all want this recount. This tool helps, but displaying all that information, allows you to cheat your way through the raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The "straw-man" is a time honored logical fallacy. Anybody who has any education on the subject should feel no need to respond to such a fundamentally flawed post. FYIthere's no strawman argument in the text you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-rapture Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) ... /sigh at arguing on the internet. Information = good Ignorance = bad Edited January 16, 2012 by X-rapture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Recount is nothing more than real time performance metrics. Grid, healbot, etc. are nothing more than information filters and UI enhancements. They don't push any buttons for you, or magically heal anything. they simply take all the information in, filter out the extraneous stuff, and present everything you need in one spot. None of them play the game for you. I'll accept they don't technically play for you, but it certainly helps you. It's like having a mirror under your opponents cards. Without such a tool you have to use skill. Here there is no skill, you're being led by the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your_Ad_Here Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ugh is this like a parser? I'll pass. Don't need some jerkwad kicking me from group because I don't do "what he wants". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I used to be against meters and such, but now think such tools should be allowed. No reason for the underskilled players to be left out of experiencing the entire SWTOR universe. Special servers for the less skilled players with logs, meters and addons enabled would make the game accessible for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fissile Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Recount shows you alive readout of your dps, interrupts and boss interrupts. It's telling you everything you need to know to beat it. How is that *not* easy mode. Give me a break. That has to be the biggest care bear tool I ever heard of in a raid. Now I see (I just checked the yoyotube on it) why you all want this recount. This tool helps, but displaying all that information, allows you to cheat your way through the raids. Seriously, you must be trolling. How in the world does tallying damage, healing, and who interrupts what 'cheat' anything? Beyond exposing people who aren't doing their job, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Recount shows you alive readout of your dps, interrupts and boss interrupts. It's telling you everything you need to know to beat it. How is that *not* easy mode. Give me a break. That has to be the biggest care bear tool I ever heard of in a raid. Now I see (I just checked the yoyotube on it) why you all want this recount. This tool helps, but displaying all that information, allows you to cheat your way through the raids. How exactly do you figure that knowing who interrupted and how many times during a fight or how much DPS each person has done during the fight allows you to 'cheat' your way through the raid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fissile Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 LOL I guess I have to tell you what a staw man fallacy is. A straw man fallacy is when you attack the person making the post instead of the points made in the post. No, that's not a straw man. A straw man is making somebody else's argument for them in such a way that it's easy to defeat the argument. Generally it's done by putting words in their mouth, or changing what their argument. What you're calling 'straw man' is 'ad hominem'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Seriously, you must be trolling. How in the world does tallying damage, healing, and who interrupts what 'cheat' anything? Beyond exposing people who aren't doing their job, of course. If I do not use this tool, I cannot see my dps, I cannot see all the other info. I have to use skill as a player to note it all as the fight progresses. If I do use this tool, it shows me all the information I need to win. That is called cheating. Cheating Definition: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards". Using a tool that shows you all this information is gaining an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-rapture Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No, that's not a straw man. A straw man is making somebody else's argument for them in such a way that it's easy to defeat the argument. Generally it's done by putting words in their mouth, or changing what their argument. What you're calling 'straw man' is 'ad hominem'. You are right, either way, I stand by my edit to /sigh at arguing on the internet. I was just annoyed and posted without thinking of the tangent. BACK TO PARSER TALK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) If I do not use this tool, I cannot see my dps, I cannot see all the other info. I have to use skill as a player to note it all as the fight progresses. If I do use this tool, it shows me all the information I need to win. That is called cheating. Cheating Definition: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards". Using a tool that shows you all this information is gaining an advantage. How exactly does knowing what DPS you're doing during a certain part of a fight giving you an advantage over anyone else? Edited January 16, 2012 by Krazeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No, that's not a straw man. A straw man is making somebody else's argument for them in such a way that it's easy to defeat the argument. Generally it's done by putting words in their mouth, or changing what their argument. What you're calling 'straw man' is 'ad hominem'. /nod +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 How exactly does knowing what DPS you're doing during a certain part of a fight giving you an advantage over anyone else? If you didn't know the dps would it be harder ? Considering everyone where who has been at the end-content they all say they need this tool to show their dps. It doesn't give you an advantage over another player, it gives an advantage over the content! Are you trying to imply you don't need this tool in a raid and would be happy for it to be not available in a raid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If I do not use this tool, I cannot see my dps, I cannot see all the other info. I have to use skill as a player to note it all as the fight progresses. If I do use this tool, it shows me all the information I need to win. That is called cheating. Cheating Definition: Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards". Using a tool that shows you all this information is gaining an advantage. I use health bars and the map in game that shows where to go to do everything. I am a cheater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fissile Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If I do not use this tool, I cannot see my dps, I cannot see all the other info. I have to use skill as a player to note it all as the fight progresses. If I do use this tool, it shows me all the information I need to win. What, exactly, is the information recount is giving you that allows you to win via cheating? Don't just enumerate "dps, interrupts, etc". Tell me: - specifically what information it gives you and - how you'd use that information to win Using a tool that shows you all this information is gaining an advantage. That's a completely separate topic (is obfuscation of information and poor UI design a substitute for difficulty?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If you didn't know the dps would it be harder ? Considering everyone where who has been at the end-content they all say they need this tool to show their dps. It doesn't give you an advantage over another player, it gives an advantage over the content! Are you trying to imply you don't need this tool in a raid and would be happy for it to be not available in a raid? Do you actually have any idea what recount actually does or why it's used by raiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I'll accept they don't technically play for you, but it certainly helps you. It's like having a mirror under your opponents cards.Bad analogy. I'm sure you like using bad analogies to set up circular logic, but that's kind of passe. Why don't we stick to using a valid analogy, eh? It's like reading a book on poker and learning how to figure the odds based on the cards you have in your hand. No cheating, just legitimate knowledge gained the way the game is designed to present it to you. With such a tool you have to use skill. Whether with it, or without it there is skill, you're not being led by the hand.fixed. Edited January 16, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I use health bars and the map in game that shows where to go to do everything. I am a cheater. Did BW supply this map and health bar as part of the published game? Actually I can see why some people would want these extra tools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Did BW supply this map and health bar as part of the published game?Yes, just like this thread is discussing adding meters as part of the published game... just like wow has an addon API as part of the published game. just like EQ has a combat log as part of the published game. Edited January 16, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Bad analogy. I'm sure you like using bad analogies to set up circular logic, but that's kind of passe. Why don't we stick to using a valid analogy, eh? It's like reading a book on poker and learning how to figure the odds based on the cards you have in your hand. No cheating, just legitimate knowledge gained the way the game is designed to present it to you. fixed. So you can go down to Vegas, enter a poker tournament and sit playing while reading book on poker. And not get laughed off the stage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Did BW supply this map and health bar as part of the published game? Actually I can see why some people would want these extra tools... Yup. Even if the map feature is basically a rip-off of something like the addon QuestHelper or Carbonite. AND when they open the API to allow things like meters or logs that won't be cheating either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynkuk Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 My first post on the Forums with SW:tor, I read the OP and considered a few things before posting. I don't think this would be worth while to the community, only to guild leaders or event runners. Combat log with all this info should be available, that way we can see.. Oh im dead.... why... 2.6k force lightning.... or a sniper... but least you know then. I think that combat log and UI editor would be so much more usfull to more people than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So you can go down to Vegas, enter a poker tournament and sit playing after having read a book on poker.fixed. I'm pretty sure you won't get laughed off the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fissile Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 So you can go down to Vegas, enter a poker tournament and sit playing while reading book on poker. And not get laughed off the stage.. And yet...you're not cheating, nor is it giving you an advantage over others (unless its part of your elaborate bluffing meta-play) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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