moosedog Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Almost every single flashpoint I have ran as a 42 IA healer and 20 BH tank with people outside of my guild picked up on general has gone the exact same way: steamroll content and then a "thanks for group" at the end. The only exceptions were colicoid since none of us knew what to do and running BT back in beta. All these dungeons were prefaced by an average of 20+ minutes sitting at the fleet and spamming general. I this is "building community" then I could not care less about the community. So yeah, I'm about ready for a non awful lfg tool to be impemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think he finally did answer it. Seems his myriad of suggestions is 'Make small talk with random people, and then maybe they might have the same heroic quests as you and do them, and sometime later they might want to do a flashpoint with you.' Course, that presumes that with all of that small talk you're able to find both a tank and healer who stay at near your level and want to do that flashpoint. Personally I've always found it more polite to make small talk after forming a group, and not making small talk for the specific purpose of getting someone on your good side. No, you make small talk to feel each other out, to see if you're simpatico and might enjoy teaming with each other (e.g. some people want to spacebar cutscenes, others want to go experience the cutscenes, and if you have a strong preference either way, that's something you can briefly broach in a few words). It's not as onerous a burden as you're making it out to be to press your point, it only takes a few words here and there. It's all in the timing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Right, but if I have a different opinion than them, then *I'm the one crying..? You don't see a contradiction, here..? Yes, they're crying on the forums because they want Big Daddy Bioware to form their groups for them. I'm not going to apologize for saying that. Before 50 there aren't any hardmodes, so, you're right... The content doesn't need to be nerfed for a random group to have success doing it. But they won't be able to faceroll the hardmodes with random people who are barely paying attention, and many of them want EXACTLY that. You want a pre-50 tool... Fine... I actually do too. Let's just leave it at that. Did you take a poll of every single person in favor of the LFD and ask them what they wanted? Where are you getting this "MOST" quantity from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 There is absolutely zero factual basis for any of this. If you don't believe her, it's because you haven't done it. It's not that hard, and it is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No, you make small talk to feel each other out, to see if you're simpatico and might enjoy teaming with each other (e.g. some people want to spacebar cutscenes, others want to go experience the cutscenes, and if you have a strong preference either way, that's something you can briefly broach in a few words). It's not as onerous a burden as you're making it out to be to press your point, it only takes a few words here and there. It's all in the timing If a LFD tool was implemented what would stop you from still going on with your method for forming groups? Would the LFD stop you from typing /who and cherry picking people to make small talk with to see if they want to group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Are you ignoring my question every time I ask it because you can't actually answer it? Dude... I was busy replying to his wall of text with my own wall of text. Give me a break, eh.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drealus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 yup....lfg is needed badly...been sat here for ahour half trying to put a group togeather...it worked great in rift when i played it,cross server lfg..it could work here to..and yes i am in a guild,but people work and do things so its hard to group somtimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Right, but if I have a different opinion than them, then *I'm the one crying..? You don't see a contradiction, here..? Yes, they're crying on the forums because they want Big Daddy Bioware to form their groups for them. I'm not going to apologize for saying that. Before 50 there aren't any hardmodes, so, you're right... The content doesn't need to be nerfed for a random group to have success doing it. But they won't be able to faceroll the hardmodes with random people who are barely paying attention, and many of them want EXACTLY that. You want a pre-50 tool... Fine... I actually do too. Let's just leave it at that. I say let us have lfg for all the content and have Bioware post in the patch notes that nothing is getting nerfed no matter how much people whine so either join a guild or pug it until we get it right. But since I don't care about endgame pve, as long as pvp gear is the best gear to actually pvp in, I'm fine with just having access to a 1-49 lfg. Although if I was a crafter, I'd want to be able to at least try to pug the instances with the nodrop crafting mats, too. Too bad crafting kind of sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Talk to people. That's all it really amounts to. Exactly. Actually, there's another point here. In older style MMOs people HAD to talk to each other because some of the content was so difficult that teaming was required, therefore if you were in the same area you would want to talk to each other because you needed people to do some of the content. This was a design feature. Now "forced teaming" like this isn't for everyone, but it sure as hell is one very powerful way of building virtual community in a virtual world, and inducing memorable gameplay. In heavily instanced games, on the other hand, an LFG tool is absolutely necessary. But any form of automation for doing group content ought to be avoided as much as possible, if there are alternative that can be utilized that involve people talking to each other. Automation is absolutely fine for lobby-based multiplayer, but not for any game that involves heavy investment in lore (like SW) and/or roleplaying (in the weak sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 LMAO!!! Actually the UI is one of my biggest complaints. =P Busted! Addons are easymode. I could keep a naked, drunk tank alive in Heroics thanks to my addons and fast clicky fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think he finally did answer it. Seems his myriad of suggestions is 'Make small talk with random people, and then maybe they might have the same heroic quests as you and do them, and sometime later they might want to do a flashpoint with you.' Course, that presumes that with all of that small talk you're able to find both a tank and healer who stay at near your level and want to do that flashpoint. Personally I've always found it more polite to make small talk after forming a group, and not making small talk for the specific purpose of getting someone on your good side. Right, because if you actually talk to people and stuff that's just evil to group with them later. I have never... NEVER... had trouble finding a group... You claim you're having a hard time. And yet you're in here making snide comments and belittling people who tell you why they don't have any problems and how you could make it easier for yourself to get groups. It isn't hard, but you act like we asked you to climb Mt. Everest. You don't really want a group or you'd be in the game forming one. Just admit that you wanted to come to the forums to whine and troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I say let us have lfg for all the content and have Bioware post in the patch notes that nothing is getting nerfed no matter how much people whine so either join a guild or pug it until we get it right. But since I don't care about endgame pve, as long as pvp gear is the best gear to actually pvp in, I'm fine with just having access to a 1-49 lfg. Although if I was a crafter, I'd want to be able to at least try to pug the instances with the nodrop crafting mats, too. Too bad crafting kind of sucks. I'd be all for that if I didn't think it was pure fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeoHTime Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I'm starting to lose track of all the strawmen in this thread, i think someone needs to make a list, so we know which fantasy worlds each poster is arguing from and can categorise them properly. Go on, tell me again how i want dungeon content to easier, or how i don't like socialising with people, or how i really want to kill all the Jews because i don't agree with the OP. Then we can carry on dragging this thread even further down into the steaming pool of ***** that is this joke of a forum. Edited January 11, 2012 by TeoHTime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosedog Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You don't really want a group or you'd be in the game forming one. Just admit that you wanted to come to the forums to whine and troll. Just admit you're an SWTOR fanboy who can't take any criticism of his beloved video game. Absolutely ridiculous people can't criticize/ask for basic game features without getting this kind of awful response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No, you make small talk to feel each other out, to see if you're simpatico and might enjoy teaming with each other (e.g. some people want to spacebar cutscenes, others want to go experience the cutscenes, and if you have a strong preference either way, that's something you can briefly broach in a few words). It's not as onerous a burden as you're making it out to be to press your point, it only takes a few words here and there. It's all in the timing Still seems like you're getting to know people for the express purpose of talking them into doing content with you. To me, it just seems a bit creepy. If I want to talk to someone, I'll talk to them, no strings attached. If I want to form a group with someone, I'll outright ask 'Would anyone like to do ..... ?' Thus far the advice seems to be that I should 'talk' to people more than I normally would, for the express purpose of finding people to do content with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Busted! Addons are easymode. I could keep a naked, drunk tank alive in Heroics thanks to my addons and fast clicky fingers. Yeah sorry but that's crap. Some addons are bad, but most just let you move and resize or reskin UI elements, and/or provide information. And anyone could keep a naked drunk tank alive in heroics because they're too faceroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Exactly. Actually, there's another point here. In older style MMOs people HAD to talk to each other because some of the content was so difficult that teaming was required, therefore if you were in the same area you would want to talk to each other because you needed people to do some of the content. This was a design feature. Now "forced teaming" like this isn't for everyone, but it sure as hell is one very powerful way of building virtual community in a virtual world, and inducing memorable gameplay. In heavily instanced games, on the other hand, an LFG tool is absolutely necessary. But any form of automation for doing group content ought to be avoided as much as possible, if there are alternative that can be utilized that involve people talking to each other. Automation is absolutely fine for lobby-based multiplayer, but not for any game that involves heavy investment in lore (like SW) and/or roleplaying (in the weak sense). Just because a heavy investment in lore and/or roleplaying is something you consider integral for YOURSELF playing this game doesn't mean it is for every single player. Or that everyone playing this game has the same exact mindset. Maybe some players just want to run dungeons and not converse? Is that a crime? Can you look outside your "I play this way therefore everyone should play this way too" mindset and realize that the MMO genre has expanded in audience since the days of the MUD? What is wrong with giving people more options as to how they play this game? Edited January 11, 2012 by HoneyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just admit you're an SWTOR fanboy who can't take any criticism of his beloved video game. Absolutely ridiculous people can't criticize/ask for basic game features without getting this kind of awful response. Just admit that your a boring faceroll player that really badly wants to beat the purple pinata for the free epics to get your minor endorfin rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosedog Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just admit that your a boring faceroll player that really badly wants to beat the purple pinata for the free epics to get your minor endorfin rush. Just admit you're afraid to group with random people because someone was mean to you in a pug in wow and hurt your feelings, admit you got booted because your dps was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Right, because if you actually talk to people and stuff that's just evil to group with them later. When you're saying I should talk to more people for the express purpose of finding groups, it's a tad creepy. When I talk to people, it's just to talk to them. No strings attached, no indication that since we're friends now they should group with me, nadda. Now if I want to do some content, and at that same time someone else wants to do that same content, then I'll ask someone if they want to form a group. But if I meet someone in a heroic area and I see later that they're in Alderaan, I'm going to let them have their fun in Alderaan. I have never... NEVER... had trouble finding a group... You claim you're having a hard time. Yes, there are people different from you. Glad you're taking notice And yet you're in here making snide comments and belittling people who tell you why they don't have any problems and how you could make it easier for yourself to get groups. It isn't hard, but you act like we asked you to climb Mt. Everest. I belittle people who use bad arguments, like mr. potatoe awhile back who thought using caps and words like "fact" and "end of discusion" makes for a convincing argument. You I don't think I've made any attempt to belittle, just gauging what you're trying to say. Plus I've never said finding a group is like climbing Mt. Everest, I just find that a lfg tool would be extremely helpful and possibly lead me to meeting more people. You don't really want a group or you'd be in the game forming one. Just admit that you wanted to come to the forums to whine and troll. I came to show why I'd like a particular tool and how I feel it would be helpful. For whatever reason, you seem to think people asking for such a tool means there's something wrong with them, even though you've said a few times you think the tool would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karzi Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 LMAO!!! Actually the UI is one of my biggest complaints. =P I bet it is. You probably enjoy a good dose of the warzone queue too. For those easy purples. Just to push the hypocrisy over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yeah sorry but that's crap. Some addons are bad, but most just let you move and resize or reskin UI elements, and/or provide information. And anyone could keep a naked drunk tank alive in heroics because they're too faceroll. If all you want is to resize bars it's one thing, but if you're wanting WoW-style Raid addons it's because it makes tanking and healing easier. As for faceroll WoW heroics, having never healed any of this game's group content at all (not counting pvp) I can't compare the two. But truthfully, right now, as it stands, how much of the content currently in game can't be done by pugs after a few tries to get it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugeorge Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just because a heavy investment in lore and/or roleplaying is something you consider integral for YOURSELF playing this game doesn't mean it is for every single player. Or that everyone playing this game has the same exact mindset. But (as another thread is pointing out) this game was ADVERTISED as a heavily story-based MMO. It's rather the person who doesn't have my mindset who's out of place. Obviously it's fair enough for people to use the game how they see fit, but they have no cause for complaint if it's not exactly what they want. OTOH if this game hadn't been heavily story-based, I, and many others WOULD have had cause for complaint. Do you see the difference? If you're not interested in story, lore, etc., that's absolutely fine, but you have no moral high ground if the game doesn't cater particularly well to your not-interested-in-storyline needs. Maybe some players just want to run dungeons and not converse? Is that a crime? Can you look outside your "I play this way therefore everyone should play this way too" mindset and realize that the MMO genre has expanded in audience since the days of the MUD? Straw man. What is wrong with giving people more options as to how they play this game? Nothing intrinsically, it's just that some options are part of a game design philosophy. If you sign onto this game, you are signing onto a game that has a certain game design philosophy, so presumably you want that type of game. If you don't, if you're just getting what YOU want out of it, that's fair enough, but you can't expect the game design philosophy to change to suit you, because it's designed to suit players who aren't like you. (Again, this isn't a totally black and white issue - of course the game has elements that are meant to appeal to all sorts of players. And all of us sometimes want to just be able to jump into a team without having to think too much about it. It's just the predominant tone of the game I'm talking about, and design decisions like no automated team finding are part of that design. If BW capitulate on this issue, it will be a sign that they have changed their game design philosophy mid-stream.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 When you're saying I should talk to more people for the express purpose of finding groups, it's a tad creepy. When I talk to people, it's just to talk to them. No strings attached, no indication that since we're friends now they should group with me, nadda. Actually, what I find creepy is your perception of talking to people. There doesn't have to be some kind of weird ulterior motive. Maybe you're just used to having your own uterior motives, I don't know. And it kind of fits, since you're here demanding a tool to group with random people, that you might see other people only as a means to an end. I help people because they asked for help. I can't tell you how many times that has resulted in a much longer conversation. And if somewhere down the road, that person is in the same area as me, we might... *MIGHT*... run content together. I think you would know that if you actually bothered to talk to people. There's nothing implied or ulterior about talking to someone. That's all in your head, and it wasn't me who put it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just admit you're afraid to group with random people because someone was mean to you in a pug in wow and hurt your feelings, admit you got booted because your dps was awful. Really bad job of trolling here, man... Trolling just the same, but really really badly. LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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