Why was this labelled as underpowered?

[Yoritomo]

I love the class and think most of its problems aren't in fact problems with the class itself per-se but more infact problems created by other classes having too many/too good tools, UI failures and resolve seeming to me to be bugged as hell or not functioning how it really should.

 

Anyone who thinks melee classes shouldn't do more damage given 100% time on target than range is just stupid. Its required for balance. In PvE if you can spend 60% of your time actually dpsing the target as melee its a melee friendly fight. And in PvP your time on target can be much lower if the person your fighting is any good and especially if they get some help.

 

It therefore makes sense that in order for all clases to put out dps thats within 5% of each other (a stated goal for bioware) melee DPS classes need to put out 30% greater damage than ranged dps given 100% time on target, because 100% time on target fights are super super rare for melee. The great majority of fights across all games for range dps are 85%+ time on target with only occasional movement and a much faster "switch" time for any adds that happen to spawn (and most range classes have at least 1 or 2 "fillers" they can use on the move so they don't lose heaps of dps if they do have to move).

 

Too too many games seem to get this wrong and it frustrates the hell out of me how so many Devs and many of the players cannot seem to grasp this simple fact that should be plain as day. If a ranged dps puts out damage that is only 5% below a melee dps (given 100% uptime on target) then the reward for playing a melee dps is extremely small and generally range will be more sought after for ease of getting through content.

 

If a range dps can put out 5% more damage than a melee dps class (100% time on target) then there is no point to having melee in the game at all and everyone should roll the ranged class, especially when the ranged class provides more CC/utility than the melee.

 

This is the problem that has baffled me since beta. It is a huge problem now. In almost full champion i can roll over undergeared people just like marauders in streams, but when i play against a coordinated and geared team i literally cant even move their health bars because of the crazy amount of CC.

 

I know we aren't meant to burst down a player with guard on him, but when you can't even get into range of a player for more than 2 seconds it's frustrating and ridiculous.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Yoritomo

[Nmaharg]

This is the problem that has baffled me since beta. It is a huge problem now. In almost full champion i can roll over undergeared people just like marauders in streams, but when i play against a coordinated and geared team i literally cant even move their health bars because of the crazy amount of CC.

 

I know we aren't meant to burst down a player with guard on him, but when you can't even get into range of a player for more than 2 seconds it's frustrating and ridiculous.

 

Are you not slowing people? I never have issue closing gaps. Really my only issue is getting focused, but thats an issue for all classes.

[TheDragonsBalls]

Feral druid in Cataclysm was and still is, by far, the most ridiculously OP and easy to play class I have seen in any MMO with only the possible exception of Aion Assassins (when that game was still alive.) Ferals are better than all of those classes combined

 

So we've come to the conclusion that just about every melee class in WoW was OP?

Sounds about right.

Edited January 14, 2012 by TheDragonsBalls

[Aztian]

Class can be kited and stunlocked and virtually destroyed by any other class unless you have a healer dedicated to you..

 

every other class has range and ways to CC you while we have none.

 

Force Pull was removed from us in beta as was the 30M saber throw.

 

also the class is MUCh too squishy while soloing or raiding in PVE and dont bring enough to the table in a game tuned for range DPS.

 

Boss mechanics favor ranged DPS and punish melee DPS..

 

the entire game is tuned agaisnt the 2 melee ACs.. and we need ways to deal with it.

 

if you think the Mar is fine.. go play ANY range class to 50 and tell me they are not 100% easier to play and much more powerful..

 

we need some love.. the damage is GREAT.. IF.. you can deliver it..

 

so right

[mastersloup]

I fully endorse this post. The only thing I'd want as a Marauder is Force Push for baseline Warrior\Knight skill. No matter how gimmicky it may seem, it's actually a very useful skill, if you pay attention to your environment.

 

Marauder should be given force push in 1.1 there's no reason (not even lore wise) the marauder should not have access to force push. not only would it give the marauder a knockback and a stun. it would also give them a little more mobility in 1.1 with the forc epush -> force charge buff

 

I fail to see why force pull and 30 yards saber throw was removed from the marauder in the beta though

Edited January 14, 2012 by mastersloup

[Hizoka]

I'm just curious why the Marauder got labelled as underpowered and broken all throughout beta and people are still under the impression that they are bad class?

 

I think they are the strongest class in the game. They do immense melee damage, then they add bleeds ontop of that, they have amazing group utility with the buffs they provide, they have several interrupts and on top of that they have the best defensive cooldowns outside of a tank spec so they are extremely difficult to kill.

 

I'm just wondering why people thought they were ever underpowered or even continue to think they are?

 

Maybe at low levels?

 

the basic issue is, a mouth breathing basement dwelling neckbeard is incapable of playing the class well, so instead of saying "i suck at this" the blame the class when it is their inability to play. The class is in NO WAY BROKEN but bad players will always blame the class.

 

So food for thought, is someone is QQing about the class you know they are just bad at it, they will claim to be good at it but if they were good at it they would not be QQing.

[mastersloup]

Here we go again

[Exertim]

The people calling Marauders/Sentinels underpowered in PvP are bad at this game. I can understand if you think we need tweaks in the PvE department (although it's more of an issue with encounters being melee unfriendly in general rather than a class issue) but we pretty much wreck face in PvP at the moment.

 

If anything, Bioware's completely terrible ability delay garbage is what is breaking this class.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Exertim

[Darth_Exedus]

I dont feel underpowered. Im level 37 right now leveling as rage, and I dont have much trouble killing elites a few levels above me. I even killed that end boss on Taris (the 35 elite droid) when I was 32. It took me 3 or 4 tries, but I eventually got it (with Jaesa with me).

 

I find we have a lot of different abilities to be used at different times, and it often gets confusing, but I'm really enjoying him right now

[mastersloup]

I dont feel underpowered. Im level 37 right now leveling as rage, and I dont have much trouble killing elites a few levels above me. I even killed that end boss on Taris (the 35 elite droid) when I was 32. It took me 3 or 4 tries, but I eventually got it (with Jaesa with me).

 

I find we have a lot of different abilities to be used at different times, and it often gets confusing, but I'm really enjoying him right now

 

Try rage juggernaut before you hit 50. if i could pay BW for an adv class change i would(rank 61, i don't have the patience to refarm that). As a juggermaut you'll have more utiility, more defence, more damage (yep your smash will hit for 30% more) and more mobility.

 

So.. the marauder is underpowered or is the juggernaut overpowered?

[Treerootz]

Class can be kited and stunlocked and virtually destroyed by any other class unless you have a healer dedicated to you..

 

every other class has range and ways to CC you while we have none.

 

Force Pull was removed from us in beta as was the 30M saber throw.

 

also the class is MUCh too squishy while soloing or raiding in PVE and dont bring enough to the table in a game tuned for range DPS.

 

Boss mechanics favor ranged DPS and punish melee DPS..

 

the entire game is tuned agaisnt the 2 melee ACs.. and we need ways to deal with it.

 

if you think the Mar is fine.. go play ANY range class to 50 and tell me they are not 100% easier to play and much more powerful..

 

we need some love.. the damage is GREAT.. IF.. you can deliver it..

 

Game is tuned for range? Plz name 1 mmo where melee is more practical... Its just how it is... Get over it!

 

Think about it... RL is tuned for range too.. One guy has a sword and one has a gun, plz nerf guns in RL cuz its not fair... Its simple common sense, if melee didnt have to move around while attacking.. They would be ranged!

 

I think if you ask anyone, standing in one spot is easier then moving around, what would you suggest? Rooted bosses who only attack ranged?

 

IMO it u cant handle the awesomeness that is marauder, just play a ranged?

 

Hint: force charge

 

Am i the only one who finds it epic to be swatted away, only to get right back up and jump 40 ft right back into his face?

 

And we have CC, its called disable droid, hell even force choke is a CC

 

In pvp we arent tanks, of course we can get destroyed by any class, so can all the other classes.. You know if you use your cooldowns you dont take as much damage, plus if specced, we have 2 different cooldowns where we are invicible!

 

Too many ppl chatge into a grp of enemies, get owned in 2 seconds, then call it squishy.. Pick and choose your battles, you arent made to just go and own grps of ppl, 1v1 , anni marauder would be hard pressed to find a worthy opponent

 

Read up on the class, spec right, and know your abilities and when to use them, there are pleanty of us dominating with marauder, so either add worthy info or stop crying..

 

If youve leveled so many characters to 50, why dont you play those instead of clogging up our forums with QQ

[mastersloup]

If youve leveled so many characters to 50, why dont you play those instead of clogging up our forums with QQ

 

because he like his marauder and hate the fact he has to keybind everything and play like a boss to have a chance to win against the next keyboard turner/clicker bounty hunter/IA/sith inquisitor?

[Luminant]

Marauder is the perfect class. As a skilled player, I personally have 0 problems playing the class and i believe it's in a perfect spot at the moment. If you disagree, you should watch my videos. Edited January 14, 2012 by Luminant

[ThisGuyThat]

Marauder is the perfect class. As a skilled player, I personally have 0 problems playing the class and i believe it's in a perfect spot at the moment. If you disagree, you should watch my videos.

 

There's no way to prove anything with vids, because in any given warzone of 16 only 1 or 2 people will ever outgear someone with a full pvp set. I'd be more impressed by a marauder winning 1v1 vs an equally geared jugg than 3v1 vs <50s and a trash geared 50.

 

However, I also feel marauder is pretty okay. If anything my complaints with the marauder are that spec diversity is poor, and that if our purpose is to be anti-healer (which it seems to be), than we need to be reworked for truly sustained damage rather than 15-second cycles of burst followed by low damage downtime. That is precisely what healers love: time to sit and heal back up. Big burst and high sustained dps is what rocks healers, and currently ops seem better suited (though I love fighting unstealthed ops 1v1)

[Luminant]

There's no way to prove anything with vids, because in any given warzone of 16 only 1 or 2 people will ever outgear someone with a full pvp set. I'd be more impressed by a marauder winning 1v1 vs an equally geared jugg than 3v1 vs <50s and a trash geared 50.

 

However, I also feel marauder is pretty okay. If anything my complaints with the marauder are that spec diversity is poor, and that if our purpose is to be anti-healer (which it seems to be), than we need to be reworked for truly sustained damage rather than 15-second cycles of burst followed by low damage downtime. That is precisely what healers love: time to sit and heal back up. Big burst and high sustained dps is what rocks healers, and currently ops seem better suited (though I love fighting unstealthed ops 1v1)

 

So you assume everyone i fight is undergeared? I was actually a 10 days played 50. Almost everyone i fight is around my gear, slightly better or worse. I can still pull off crazy 5v1's with ease. Use your eyes, look at some healthbars.

 

And FYI, marauder is the best 1v1 class. I'll take requests for 1v1's if you want.

[ThisGuyThat]

So you assume everyone i fight is undergeared? I was actually a 10 days played 50. Almost everyone i fight is around my gear, slightly better or worse. I can still pull off crazy 5v1's with ease. Use your eyes, look at some healthbars.

 

And FYI, marauder is the best 1v1 class. I'll take requests for 1v1's if you want.

 

What good would my 1v1'ing you with a marauder prove. Also a tiny minority of players are level 50, respite what these forums would indicate: regardless of your days played to be 50, the people you're fighting are, on average, beneath you.

 

 

 

And again, to everyone releasing videos, no video will prove anything at this juncture. Variances in level, gearing, consumable popping, etc. essentially invalidate any pug warzone or Ilum video. You wouldn't watch a random duel and determine the victor to have an overpowered class, and in the same way a random vid of a marauder pwning in no way PROVES it is balanced. It's comforting to know good marauders are out there winning, but... well, try watching some Ops videos, lol

[Luminant]

What good would my 1v1'ing you with a marauder prove. Also a tiny minority of players are level 50, respite what these forums would indicate: regardless of your days played to be 50, the people you're fighting are, on average, beneath you.

 

 

 

And again, to everyone releasing videos, no video will prove anything at this juncture. Variances in level, gearing, consumable popping, etc. essentially invalidate any pug warzone or Ilum video. You wouldn't watch a random duel and determine the victor to have an overpowered class, and in the same way a random vid of a marauder pwning in no way PROVES it is balanced. It's comforting to know good marauders are out there winning, but... well, try watching some Ops videos, lol

 

You can say that about videos, but then I can say that about your complaints about a class that's fine. You can say Marauder's easily get kited, I can prove you wrong in a video. You say marauders lose to X in a duel, I can find an equally geared of X class and win. If you want to nerf Ops, complain in Ops forums about them but don't make my class faceroll OP just because you get 1 shot in your greens.

[Precurso]

You can say that about videos, but then I can say that about your complaints about a class that's fine. You can say Marauder's easily get kited, I can prove you wrong in a video. You say marauders lose to X in a duel, I can find an equally geared of X class and win. If you want to nerf Ops, complain in Ops forums about them but don't make my class faceroll OP just because you get 1 shot in your greens.

 

No, you really can't...

[ThisGuyThat]

You can say that about videos, but then I can say that about your complaints about a class that's fine. You can say Marauder's easily get kited, I can prove you wrong in a video. You say marauders lose to X in a duel, I can find an equally geared of X class and win. If you want to nerf Ops, complain in Ops forums about them but don't make my class faceroll OP just because you get 1 shot in your greens.

 

You became quite personally vicious to me despite my attempts to placate you with compliments. Let me be clear.

 

The marauder class IS quite strong in a pure 1v1 thanks to many long CDs we can pop and good overall damage, though this does not translate into usefulness in warzones where you need to be fighting ready at all times. Regardless in a 1v1 it's arguably the easiest to win with a marauder due to the lack of timing required: just pop saber ward and cloak asap, trinket up when the burst of your spec is about to hit, then undying and pop heals to stay in it. Nothing super awesome about it. It doesn't mean the class is well balanced (especially when a stronger player will know to abuse CC to deplete these CD's and prevent us from executing our high-damage combos, though I doubt you're fighting players of that level since you're so confident in your 1v1'ing).

 

Back to your personal attack, I finally got my champion MH today (finally!) and am thus fully pvp geared with well over 400 expertise. When you resort to presumed personal insults that are wrong you should at least have the presence of mind to understand you've lost the argument that mattered. Go defend your videos on youtube, not here.

 

 

(sorry mods/readers for getting personal, but (as always on the internet), they started it)

[Luminant]

You became quite personally vicious to me despite my attempts to placate you with compliments. Let me be clear.

 

The marauder class IS quite strong in a pure 1v1 thanks to many long CDs we can pop and good overall damage, though this does not translate into usefulness in warzones where you need to be fighting ready at all times. Regardless in a 1v1 it's arguably the easiest to win with a marauder due to the lack of timing required: just pop saber ward and cloak asap, trinket up when the burst of your spec is about to hit, then undying and pop heals to stay in it. Nothing super awesome about it. It doesn't mean the class is well balanced (especially when a stronger player will know to abuse CC to deplete these CD's and prevent us from executing our high-damage combos, though I doubt you're fighting players of that level since you're so confident in your 1v1'ing).

 

Back to your personal attack, I finally got my champion MH today (finally!) and am thus fully pvp geared with well over 400 expertise. When you resort to presumed personal insults that are wrong you should at least have the presence of mind to understand you've lost the argument that mattered. Go defend your videos on youtube, not here.

 

 

(sorry mods/readers for getting personal, but (as always on the internet), they started it)

 

How is an AoE sprint, AoE gamebreaking Dmg+healing buff useless in a warzone? Those skills are borderline OP imo. Also, how is this now personal? By saying that I'm not fighting competent players you're just proving to me that you are getting personal against me and calling me bad. I can promise you, that you are nothing special and your random insight on this class isn't going anywhere.

 

The class is fine, get better.

[Lashkor]

the thing is if you cannot graps the fact that melee is fin for some people and in NO MMO has melee just been better damage then range then you will NEVER EVER grasp why people are melee.

 

 

If you think being melee should mean you do more damage then you thinking is very wrong. Melee in EVERY mmo has been harder to play because of melee, people do it because its fun for them, if you want to be over powered for playing something then go to another game but this simply is not a game for you.

 

Wrong wrong wrong, and even more wrong.

 

In every other MMO melee classes do more damage for a reason. They have less uptime than ranged classes by a large margin.

 

Look at warriors in WoW, you're going to sit there and tell me they don't do more damage than every other ranged class when they actually get into melee?

 

I played one.

 

They do.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Qishari
rude comments

[Myung_Alatioc]

lol posts saying Marauders suck are really starting to make me laugh. This is not an easy class to play. Range yes is easier to play, but more powerful? No.

 

I am valor 49, I avg 250k-350k dmg a round, 40-50 kills and 75k+ healing. I can win almost any 1v1 unless I get knocked down from a top level to the ground and if I had just used my force leap(then i just use camouflage and come back later) heck I was wining 2v1 and 3v1s last night, which is not uncommon.

 

This is not an easy class, but if you can L2P it, it is a monster.

[mastersloup]

lol posts saying Marauders suck are really starting to make me laugh. This is not an easy class to play. Range yes is easier to play, but more powerful? No.

 

I am valor 49, I avg 250k-350k dmg a round, 40-50 kills and 75k+ healing. I can win almost any 1v1 unless I get knocked down from a top level to the ground and if I had just used my force leap(then i just use camouflage and come back later) heck I was wining 2v1 and 3v1s last night, which is not uncommon.

 

This is not an easy class, but if you can L2P it, it is a monster.

 

numbers says otherwise. just an exemple. the juggernot does more damage, more defence, more utility and more mobility.

 

since nobody ever answered the question i'll try again. Is the juggernaut overpowered or is the marauder underpowered?

 

since we're talking about valor, i'm rank 61 and i usualy end up with 350k-510k damage done in most WZs. if i could adv class to juggernaut i'd do even better. it's not a L2P issues since you claim.

Edited January 14, 2012 by mastersloup

[Myung_Alatioc]

numbers says otherwise. just an exemple. the juggernot does more damage, more defence, more utility and more mobility.

 

since nobody ever answered the question i'll try again. Is the juggernaut overpowered or is the marauder underpowered?

 

since we're talking about valor, i'm rank 61 and i usualy end up with 350k-510k damage done in most WZs. if i could adv class to juggernaut i'd do even better. it's not a L2P issues since you claim.

 

 

Are Juggs more survivable? For certain they are, that is what they are suppose to be. But I have rarely seen one that out damages me, if it is it was because I was solo queing and they had a healer in their group. I have seen them get more medals since they get guard and Marauders do not. I really do think it mostly comes down to the player, I don't have a problem dropping Juggs or Guardians in 1 v 1.

[Myung_Alatioc]

numbers says otherwise. just an exemple. the juggernot does more damage, more defence, more utility and more mobility.

 

since nobody ever answered the question i'll try again. Is the juggernaut overpowered or is the marauder underpowered?

 

since we're talking about valor, i'm rank 61 and i usualy end up with 350k-510k damage done in most WZs. if i could adv class to juggernaut i'd do even better. it's not a L2P issues since you claim.

 

 

Are Juggs more survivable? For certain they are, that is what they are suppose to be. But I have rarely seen one that out damages me, if it is it was because I was solo queing and they had a healer in their group. I have seen them get more medals since they get guard and Marauders do not. I really do think it mostly comes down to the player, I don't have a problem dropping Juggs or Guardians in 1 v 1.