omninull Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The Juggernaut doesn't use a lightsaber, but a giant foam pool noodle beating people repeatedly over until they somehow fall over and give up from the sheer absurdity of this class's impotence. Juggernauts must be a part of some cosmic joke everyone else in the galaxy is in on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedwood Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 i couldn't agree more. you know something is wrong when our highest damage single target attack hits for 30% less than one single tick from bounty hunter death from abovewhich hits 5 times in 2 seconds with a huge aoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The Juggernaut doesn't use a lightsaber, but a giant foam pool noodle beating people repeatedly over until they somehow fall over and give up from the sheer absurdity of this class's impotence. Juggernauts must be a part of some cosmic joke everyone else in the galaxy is in on. May I ask what level you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClockworX Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 didn't think the jug was supposed to blast things into powder in 1-2 atks... tank class has high hp and defense for a reason you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 i couldn't agree more. you know something is wrong when our highest damage single target attack hits for 30% less than one single tick from bounty hunter death from above which hits 5 times in 2 seconds with a huge aoe. What single target attack are you talking about? Crushing blow routinely crits > 3k, Backhand hits > 2.5k easily, even vicious slash hits for ~2k. Now unless I'm severely wrong here, I don't see Death from Above hitting for 4k / tick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Victus Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 didn't think the jug was supposed to blast things into powder in 1-2 atks... tank class has high hp and defense for a reason you know? Depends on what tree. Juggerauts are not just tanks you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 '42' and am often seen slapping people with a soft white towel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 '42' and am often seen slapping people with a soft white towel. Are you still immortal spec'd then? That's the only tree that doesn't boast incredible dps, but you can still put out quite a bit of damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Are you still immortal spec'd then? That's the only tree that doesn't boast incredible dps, but you can still put out quite a bit of damage No spec outputs incedible dps compared to the dps specs of other classes. We put out ok dps.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedwood Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 What single target attack are you talking about? Crushing blow routinely crits > 3k, Backhand hits > 2.5k easily, even vicious slash hits for ~2k. Now unless I'm severely wrong here, I don't see Death from Above hitting for 4k / tick vicious slash 2k lol? you must be talking about a crit. and your a little off on your numbers but yea your scaling would be correct with the 4 k a tick comment not those numbers but same scaling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redial Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 just hit mid 30s and my jugg has come alive. It was supposed to be an alt but i have basically ignored my BH because i am having so much more fun on my jugg. Yes, the BH hits harder. But its just boring tracer missile spam. Jugg is a lot more fun imho. and while it sometimes feels weak, other times it feels pretty good. I stay a couple levels above content to be safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Even if the Juggernaut rivals the bounty hunter, whether they were specced dps or tank, the Juggernaut loses simply because of the bounty hunter's solid aoe, cc, and the almighty kiting ability. If they were on equal footing, equally geared, and of the same skill level, the bounty hunter will come out on top because he is able to kite because he is ranged. You're talking about the Rage tree which has 10m abilities, the other trees, other than from a couple of skills you train, have no range. The juggernaut and other melee classes need to be able to be feared if they are able to even reach you for a moment. Edited January 9, 2012 by omninull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 No spec outputs incedible dps compared to the dps specs of other classes. We put out ok dps.. What exactly are you talking about? I can confirm without a doubt that juggernaut rage spec can put out over 1.2k dps on single target PvE (we did hardmode council, I did 114k damage in 1:30 completely solo). Vengeance would probably hit around 1.5k there. The only class that did more than that last run was a sorc dps that did 36k damage in around 25 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiphere Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Not sure I understand why people in a tank spec would expect to do the damage of a damage speced character... You can't have your cake and eat it too ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnuzone Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Must admit that Im having fun in pve on my Juggernaut. But the difference between him and my Mercenary is so big that its not even funny. Just started the game and atm lvl 15 on 2 chars, trying out both the merc and the juggernaut. In pve the Merc kills off groups of 4-6 standard mobs in 3-4 seconds, maybe loosing 100 hp. The Juggernaut looses about half it's hp from the exact same group of mobs (all armor rating 40 and Vengence spec now). Having the same hp, same armor and taking twice as long to kill something. No wonder he take lots of hits in a fight. And in group play, as a tank, I got no real aggro/hate skills that I can use. The first party member who do some crits will steal aggro immediately (now switched to immortal and using that tanking form). In pvp its even worse. Huttball as a lvl 15 just to try it out for fun. Since Im here pretty much for the pvp part. Merc - 128 000 dmg. Can cc, heal, dd, pretty much anything. Juggernaut - 26 000 dmg. Can pretty much be killed in an instant or ignored completely since he's not doing anything. Yepp Im only lvl 15 and yes yes Im sure it will change as a reach lvl bla bla bla. But that big of a difference? Really? And the pvp itself. Upscaled stats and all lvls in the same arena? That was a big dissappointment. Hmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Not sure I understand why people in a tank spec would expect to do the damage of a damage speced character... You can't have your cake and eat it too ya know. Holy ****, who said we were tank specc'd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yepp Im only lvl 15 and yes yes Im sure it will change as a reach lvl bla bla bla. But that big of a difference? Really? Hmm Absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 What exactly are you talking about? I can confirm without a doubt that juggernaut rage spec can put out over 1.2k dps on single target PvE (we did hardmode council, I did 114k damage in 1:30 completely solo). Vengeance would probably hit around 1.5k there. The only class that did more than that last run was a sorc dps that did 36k damage in around 25 seconds So you have a combat log? I'm just saying while we hit hard for a couple attacks, other classes can hit hard for nearly all their attacks. Simply look at the number on the attacks. Mercs can spam tracer missile and get crits of 3.5k or more and barely spend any energy. Snipers can drop that kind of damage as well without running our of energy extremely fast. A jugg cannot do that. We can hit for either a huge hit of 4k damage and then a wet noodle or a constant couple thousand damage with weak dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 So you have a combat log? I don't need a combat log. The mob had 114k health, I killed him completely solo in 90 seconds. This is simple division to give you 1266 dps. I'm just saying while we hit hard for a couple attacks, other classes can hit hard for nearly all their attacks. Simply look at the number on the attacks. Mercs can spam tracer missile and get crits of 3.5k or more and barely spend any energy. Snipers can drop that kind of damage as well without running our of energy extremely fast. A jugg cannot do that. We can hit for either a huge hit of 4k damage and then a wet noodle or a constant couple thousand damage with weak dots. what are you talking about? Your skills besides smash do more than a 'wet noodle's' worth of damage. Force scream does ~3k damage, charge can hit up to 2k, force push can hit up to 2k, vicious slash can hit up to 2k, hell even sundering assault can hit upwards of 1700-1800. I wouldn't call this "wet noodle" hits. You really sound as if you don't have experience rage pvp'ing and instead are just QQing about class problems currently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redial Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Even if the Juggernaut rivals the bounty hunter, whether they were specced dps or tank, the Juggernaut loses simply because of the bounty hunter's solid aoe, cc, and the almighty kiting ability. If they were on equal footing, equally geared, and of the same skill level, the bounty hunter will come out on top because he is able to kite because he is ranged. . Sort of agree. Basically in pve you are right but in pvp: 1. no one will sit still for DFA except if they are capping (basically smash is better unless capping) 2. arsenal mercs are pretty immobile and easy to shut down if you just interupt one tracer missile (omg my spam is gone, i guess ill...wait? or E. dart > Rapid shot? ) if Juggs get -1 for not being able to kite, you have to give them at least +1/2 for being difficult to kite. Love latching onto mercs and not letting them go (chilling scream, force charge, force choke, all nice pvp moves) i 100% would rather be on my jugg than on my merc in huttball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 I don't need a combat log. The mob had 114k health, I killed him completely solo in 90 seconds. This is simple division to give you 1266 dps. what are you talking about? Your skills besides smash do more than a 'wet noodle's' worth of damage. Force scream does ~3k damage, charge can hit up to 2k, force push can hit up to 2k, vicious slash can hit up to 2k, hell even sundering assault can hit upwards of 1700-1800. I wouldn't call this "wet noodle" hits. You really sound as if you don't have experience rage pvp'ing and instead are just QQing about class problems currently Bounty hunters crit for those numbers in their early 40s, with consistent damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redial Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 atm lvl 15 on 2 chars, trying out both the merc and the juggernaut. I think you will find the balance changes over time. Juggs are late bloomers. And as everyone says, game is not attempting to balance at all levels And in group play, as a tank, I got no real aggro/hate skills that I can use. The first party member who do some crits will steal aggro immediately (now switched to immortal and using that tanking form). You have soresu form even if you dont spec into it. +50% all hate. I tank in soresu as a veng jugg all the time (did Cademimu recently) and aside from a little rage starvation, i do just fine In pvp its even worse. Juggernaut - 26 000 dmg. Can pretty much be killed in an instant or ignored completely since he's not doing anything. guard is your friend. At lvl 15 i expect you to pretty much get shut down by people with lvl 50 skills and talents. I switch to soresu, and pick the biggest baddest lvl 50 and guard him or her. I know they will be in the fray and probably a ball carrier. Works wonders. I get 5 medals per match easy and add a couple if you are dishing it out too (harder bc offspec tank dmg sucks) also taunt and intimidating shout help even more once you get them. Intercede as well Yepp Im only lvl 15 and yes yes Im sure it will change as a reach lvl bla bla bla. But that big of a difference? Really? And the pvp itself. Upscaled stats and all lvls in the same arena? That was a big dissappointment. They said there will be lvl 50 brackets soon. and yea i figure its a pretty big difference from lvl `15 to lvl 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Bounty hunters crit for those numbers in their early 40s, with consistent damage. And our damage isn't consistent? All of those skills can be used on rotation without much need for rage generation whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I don't need a combat log. The mob had 114k health, I killed him completely solo in 90 seconds. This is simple division to give you 1266 dps. So all other classes were killing the same mob at a different time solo? Unless they were you cannot say your dps was better. what are you talking about? Your skills besides smash do more than a 'wet noodle's' worth of damage. Force scream does ~3k damage, charge can hit up to 2k, force push can hit up to 2k, vicious slash can hit up to 2k, hell even sundering assault can hit upwards of 1700-1800. I wouldn't call this "wet noodle" hits. You really sound as if you don't have experience rage pvp'ing and instead are just QQing about class problems currently I pvp in rage. and it's hilarious because every other class wears me down faster than I wear them down till the 4k smash I drop on their head. It's rare for scream to hit for 3k, normally it hits for 2.5k. Viscous slash hits for maybe 1.5-1.7k with charge and oblit. This is in near full champ gear. Yes they can hit hard if you pop adrenals and/or are hitting player with no expertise, but that is not always the case and other classes will hit harder in those cases. Ever seen the scoundrel that flat out evaporates half of peoples health at will? Or that sniper that drops a string of 4k, 4k, 3k, crits on 8% expertise? No juggernaut can do that. And no we don't hit more often nor do those other classes run out of energy from thsoe opening volleys (well assassin often do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) And our damage isn't consistent? All of those skills can be used on rotation without much need for rage generation whatsoever. Yeah, it's consistent. Consistently bad. Edited January 9, 2012 by omninull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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