PVP Video - OPeratives are OP

[Kougi]

Wow! 5k-6k Crits?! Can a Sith Assassin get some of that lovin too?! Edited January 9, 2012 by Kougi

[Drengir]

Plz play Operative before posting stupid opinion guys, really. In 1v1 fight with Sorc of example, both competent players, OP has no chance at winning, even if he gets the jump. NONE. With their bubble on, OP can get him to 60-80% HP depending on luck, no more, before stun wear off. And at that point Sorc is not CC-able anymore. He then just uses one of his many CCs (Sorc cc doesnt fill resolve instantly, so they can be chained), during which he heals himself completly, puts shield and beats crap out of Operative, who is not in stealth anymore. Or use force speed and rinse repeat. Or knockback with talented root. And again heal+dps. Operatives have ZERO gap closers after first jump, and equally geared you will always survive his initial burst. No idea about other classes, know only how to counter them with Sorc. I have both Sorc and Operative, and have to say Sorc feels much more powerful and versatile (and know how to play OP, trust me). Stop whining and start playing, really.

 

 

Ps. And 5k dmg without gear (that someone mentioned before) is ********. With 400 expertise PvP gear, 1500 cuning and 66% surge my HS (fully talented) very rarely crits over 5k, never hit over 6k yet. Not even on lower levels cloth targets.And yes, I use Acis Blade. It is not a matter of skill here, as this are strictly equations and numbers. Without burning at least one or more consumables you do not get such a high burst.

 

Yea, because sorcs aren't the second most OP class in the game? Take 50% of the stuns away from a sorc and I might actually survive enough to get through their shields

 

Helluuu, why do you think so many play on the empire side?

[Zippor]

I play Madness specced Inquisitor Sorcerer. Operatives and Scoundrels are only a problem if they get their opener on me when I don't have my break ready or I am around 50% health. If I spot a Op/Scou from a far, I won't let him out of my sights until he dies. If I do get jumped on and I have my break ready, I wait for resolve to start dropping and pop it (only if it was the long stun that takes me to full resolve right away) and start kiting him, most of the time it's not even hard. Any shorter stuns I eat, hopefully taking most of the dmg to my shield and after getting up, I proceed to kite target to death.

 

Operatives are manageable for Sorcerors in 1 v 1. If you get jumped by a Operative and something else, then it's bye bye. The best way to make yourself not a target, is to move with someone, watching each others backs. I mostly move with a Sniper, and sometimes when we get jumped by a Op/Scou, my friend usually dies, if I don't help him survive. So keep those shields on your pals and stuns ready for an Op/Scou and handle him. Rank 59 with plenty of Champion gear right now. They could nerf the damage of the opener a little bit, that's all I can think of being overpowered.

[MonsAlpha]

I had no idea all an operative had to do was use knives to kill someone....

 

/sarcasm

[Plastic]

I saw like.. one fight where he "barely got out alive" and then he had had a couple of guys attacking him. Sure he had guard but when he went up 1vs1 or 2vs1 he crushed them.

 

Not saying he is an overly good player (this is not enought to reflect over that) but he sure gives us some proof of just how OP operative is. Sure I understand all the empires wanna keep devs from realising this (tbh, they might just have succeded since OPeratives are getting a buffed talent tree..) but the republic players have said it since day one.

 

Republic has Scoundrels. And, as said, we'll see how things are after 50 bracket hits the floor. If the class still is very strong, I'll come on this forum and say I was wrong. I promise.

[Doxxs]

I play Madness specced Inquisitor Sorcerer. Operatives and Scoundrels are only a problem if they get their opener on me when I don't have my break ready or I am around 50% health. If I spot a Op/Scou from a far, I won't let him out of my sights until he dies. If I do get jumped on and I have my break ready, I wait for resolve to start dropping and pop it (only if it was the long stun that takes me to full resolve right away) and start kiting him, most of the time it's not even hard. Any shorter stuns I eat, hopefully taking most of the dmg to my shield and after getting up, I proceed to kite target to death.

 

Operatives are manageable for Sorcerors in 1 v 1. If you get jumped by a Operative and something else, then it's bye bye. The best way to make yourself not a target, is to move with someone, watching each others backs. I mostly move with a Sniper, and sometimes when we get jumped by a Op/Scou, my friend usually dies, if I don't help him survive. So keep those shields on your pals and stuns ready for an Op/Scou and handle him. Rank 59 with plenty of Champion gear right now. They could nerf the damage of the opener a little bit, that's all I can think of being overpowered.

 

 

So to beat OP/scoundrel simply outnumber them but then still take 50% casualties.

 

Check

and noted.

[sildoor]

Wow! 5k-5k Crits?! Can a Sith Assassin get some of that lovin too?!

 

if I pop my power trinket + wz buff im able to do 4400+ crits with forcebreach and shadow strike .. and im in "ok" epic pvp gear.. -.-

 

5k sounds like a dream...

[Plastic]

assasin / shadow dont have a shield .. we got our trinket .. but thats about it..

 

so you meen that we should always die if our trinked are on cd ..

 

I like that logic..

 

No, I meen that he did his job - caught the dude with his pants down. And he got killed. Why he traveled outside of his group is beyond me. It's not TDM. ;\

[Drengir]

if I pop my power trinket + wz buff im able to do 4400+ crits with forcebreach and shadow strike .. and im in "ok" epic pvp gear.. -.-

 

5k sounds like a dream...

 

He even popped the 6k mark a few times xD Gotta love those openers!

 

And yes, we sure have scoundrel and I have not seen much of scoundrel action since I'm a republic but, something tells me there still is a difference between them. OPeratives say scoundrels are better (and request a balance in trees etc) but I doubt it.

[Jayton]

the ability that causes the to hit so high is in final ability the the scrapper tree for scoundrel and the final tree in the Operatives version of scrapper. It adds a ton of dmg to the attack and im more than betting the reason they hit so hard because the one shot if it crits it technically probably causes both to crit doing double the normal crit dmg it should.

[Tiresias]

Republic has Scoundrels. And, as said, we'll see how things are after 50 bracket hits the floor. If the class still is very strong, I'll come on this forum and say I was wrong. I promise.

 

I want to hear your explanation for the Operative killing a Guardian in Soresu Form in 8 seconds right now.

 

Take your time and think about it, because I'm sure whatever you have to say in defense of that will be entertaining.

 

Bear in mind that the Jedi was in partial PvP gear with all the big pieces (Chest, Legs, Head), yet he spent 40% of the fight on the ground, got to land two retaliatory strikes that didn't even take the Operative below 90%, and died almost as quickly as the Sage in the opening cut.

[sildoor]

No, I meen that he did his job - caught the dude with his pants down. And he got killed. Why he traveled outside of his group is beyond me. It's not TDM. ;\

 

 

? logic ?

 

your just digging deeper and deeper . . as a shadow/assasin we got our pants down when we are not with our group?

 

anyway wish there was a ignore button on the forum ,. as its hard to not feed this big troll when I have to read his BS over and over and over in this thread -.-

[Jayton]

I want to hear your explanation for the Operative killing a Guardian in Soresu Form in 8 seconds right now.

 

Take your time and think about it, because I'm sure whatever you have to say in defense of that will be entertaining.

 

Bear in mind that the Jedi was in partial PvP gear with all the big pieces (Chest, Legs, Head), yet he spent 40% of the fight on the ground, got to land two retaliatory strikes that didn't even take the Operative below 90%, and died almost as quickly as the Sage in the opening cut.

 

yes please do!!! this should be good.. im so tired of the excuse oh they do it to non 50s or if it is a 50 im tired of ohh there not geared BS im geared lvl 50 not tank however and i die in 3 seconds. my friend is fully battlemaster geared tank spec shadow and drops in about 6-10 seconds only dealing about 5-10% dmg as well.

[warkat]

only people saying any class is op are people with no expertise..get 500+ and you are not dieing in any stunlock.

[Jayton]

did you read anything in this entire thread? and are you also saying the only people that shouldnt die to a ops/scou in first few seconds are people who have 500+ expertise because thats very well geared and I have upper 400's expertise geared. Still happens to me. Also thats a pretty lame way to counter a smuggler and even then doesnt leave you with much room or health left to live after the stun is up. Edited January 9, 2012 by Jayton

[Tiresias]

only people saying any class is op are people with no expertise..get 500+ and you are not dieing in any stunlock.

 

Alright, why don't YOU explain the Jedi Guardian in PvP gear and Soresu form (tank stance) dying in 8 seconds while spending 3 of that on the ground.

 

If you are SO convinced that the problem is just gear, explain to me how the gear didn't allow what is supposed to be one of the toughest classes in the game to survive even TEN SECONDS after being opened up on by an Operative.

[Epishot]

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about how OP the scoundrels are? They do just as much dmg as the op yet I never see Sith complaining about the Scoundrels. And please, do not try to tell me that the operatives are more OP than scoundrels, I've cross-analyzed every single ability that they get and they are EXACTLY the same with 2 exceptions: operatives have 30sec less on their flashbang CD and a scoundrel's dirty kick hits 2x as hard as debilitate. Those are the only differences.

[Lord_Karsk]

Watching the video just makes mr made :mad:

 

We been telling BioWare this so long but they dont care at all about game balance.

And we all know who we can blame for it, George and Gabe.

 

Wonder if this class is their own main class they play.

There have been patches since launch with no fix to this huge problem.

 

One got to wonder about this policy BioWare have when it comes to

ignoring the most basic facts about game balance and just not caring !

[Jayton]

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about how OP the scoundrels are? They do just as much dmg as the op yet I never see Sith complaining about the Scoundrels. And please, do not try to tell me that the operatives are more OP than scoundrels, I've cross-analyzed every single ability that they get and they are EXACTLY the same with 2 exceptions: operatives have 30sec less on their flashbang CD and a scoundrel's dirty kick hits 2x as hard as debilitate. Those are the only differences.

 

have you looked at class ratios in wzs between alliance and sith? Sith on my server almost every WZ has minumum 3 sorc minimum 2 ops in it.. thats 5 taken up already. rest are kinna hosh posh.. but its dam near every WZ i go into 5/8 are those 2 classes where as my groups usually have lots of diversity 1 scou 1 sage 2 shadow 1 gunslinger 2 troopers and a sentinel or guardian. I dont see too many sentinels but i see lots of troopres gunslingers guardians and shadows and a few sages here and there. My server seems to be lacking in sages and scoundrel and usuasly if it is a sage its healer spec or scoundrel ive seen more healer spec scoundres than i have scrapper speced ones

[Lord_Karsk]

Nobody in any situation should go from full life to dead in under 5 seconds at the hands of a single player in a Warzone.

 

I don't care your class, spec, or level -- killing someone in 3 global cooldowns simply should not be possible.

 

They are separating out the level 50 players soon, which will help, but in this video there are several instances where the Operative drops a decently-geared level 50 Jedi Guardian who is in SORESU FORM (tank stance) in about 8 seconds.

 

3:30 - Approaching the target.

3:36 - Initial strike. Target is immediately taken to 50% from previously being at ~90%.

3:37 - Target is knocked down.

3:40 - Target is recovered and at 20% life (in execute range for most DPS classes).

3:44 - Target is dead. Operative is at ~95% HP after taking two retaliatory attacks.

 

That was a JEDI GUARDIAN in partial PvP gear who was in TANK STANCE.

 

8 seconds from 90% to dead. In Soresu Form. Stunned for 40% of the fight.

 

"LOLZ HE SHUD HAV USED RESOLUTE!"

 

He was fighting someone else when the Operative made his approach. Resolute may have been on cooldown. Either way, not having a 2-minute cooldown available should not equate to nearly instant death with little to no chance of response.

 

When you are right you are right. Simpel as that.

 

So much for the heroic gameplay BioWare was talking about before launch.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Lord_Karsk

[Jayton]

When you are right you are right. Simpel as that.

 

So much for the heroic gameplay BioWare was talking about before launch.

 

pvp isnt about heroic gameplay man haha.. its about teamwork and trying to slaughter the other team haha. the game itself in its PvE aspec has some pretty good heroic gameplay feels to it. but yes scou/OP still has that opening ability that makes them over powered. half that dmg to my shadows highest hit or make the cooldown hella long or the cost really large to where they cant hit 3-5 other abilities within a few seconds afterwards and it would be just fine

[HeyImTempzz]

Good. Sages KILL EVERYTHING (So does the sister class)

 

Are you guys off your god damn rocker? its very very funny that there are hundreds of posts on tons of threads about how powerful Operatives/Scounderals are without looking at Sorcs/Sages and Arsenal BH's..

 

I play an arsenal BH in Battlemaster/Champion Gear, i can kill people in the electro dart stun.. i also play level 30 sorc, i have NO problem on either of my chars beating Ops/scound that are the same level and WHY?? because i realise there a strong class, and i keep my trinket.

 

Its funny how people will complain about there damage.. but when the solution is right infrount of them. they complain.

 

SO.

 

One of the only ways i can see to stop the whining is to either do the following.

 

Keep the damage the same, and increase the base health of some classes, by 2 - 3k HP so when the burst is over they are still at 6k hp which is EASILY still a winable fight if your half way decent at PvP.

 

or

 

Nerf the armour pen on Acid Blade by 10%... BUT this will **** them up for PvP so.

 

 

Realy i think this is all a L2P issue, but people arnt willing to do that, they would rather call the nerfs. Proberly reason why i top the kills with 0 deaths because no one wants to learn, they just wnt to QQ..

[Epishot]

Good. Sages KILL EVERYTHING (So does the sister class)

 

Are you guys off your gosh darn rocker? its very very funny that there are hundreds of posts on tons of threads about how powerful Operatives/Scounderals are without looking at Sorcs/Sages and Arsenal BH's..

 

I play an arsenal BH in Battlemaster/Champion Gear, i can kill people in the electro dart stun.. i also play level 30 sorc, i have NO problem on either of my chars beating Ops/scound that are the same level and WHY?? because i realise there a strong class, and i keep my trinket.

 

Its funny how people will complain about there damage.. but when the solution is right infrount of them. they complain.

 

SO.

 

One of the only ways i can see to stop the whining is to either do the following.

 

Keep the damage the same, and increase the base health of some classes, by 2 - 3k HP so when the burst is over they are still at 6k hp which is EASILY still a winable fight if your half way decent at PvP.

 

or

 

Nerf the armour pen on Acid Blade by 10%... BUT this will **** them up for PvP so.

 

 

Realy i think this is all a L2P issue, but people arnt willing to do that, they would rather call the nerfs. Proberly reason why i top the kills with 0 deaths because no one wants to learn, they just wnt to QQ..

 

I'm tempted to agree with you actually. Some ppl really do need to L2P and if you're one of those people, stop ************ about how unfair everything is and admit that you don't play your class as well as your opponents.

[Jayton]

Im fine with sorc and thier power lvls because their main dmg dealing ability is that lightning shot and it can be interrupted as far as BHs ive never been killed by one in a 3 second stun as I have a scou/op. neither have i ever been hit for 6k and change by one either reducing my health to almost half in one hit then sit and watch my health drain as he hits his next combo after his opening attack then be able to turn and fight with 10% or less health left. if its a geared lvl 50 ops/scou there is no turn and fight for my class. sorc can be counter with my anti slow stun force abilities and tech abilites or interrupt for all their dmg and at least i can fight back when being hit by their slow. and yes when i catch a scou/ops out of stealth they are dead but what I am not happy with is the fact that they can burst down 12k in about 3-5 seconds then restealth out of combat not using their combat stealth before anyone ever saw them but the person they just killed. and its not just ops i know everyone says ops op it is scoundrel too. ive seen scoundrels drop a quite geared 50 sith juggernaut in a matter of 6 secconds. then stealth away and do the same to a shielded 50 sorc. 2 players in about 12 seconds then stealth away again. and its all because two abilities combining to one attack and that attack critting. a fully geared person of this spec has probably a 50% chance to crit that ability too because talent points and class buff. My shadow has a 33% chance to crit with my gear and scou buff. but most dmg i can output in one burst even critting 3 times in a row on my best ability is 9kish. then waiting 3 seconds to do my finishing blow which if crits will do about 2500-3k. for a total of 12k in 6 seconds. and tahts with everything critting every shot.

[ChrisJSY]

 

Realy i think this is all a L2P issue, but people arnt willing to do that, they would rather call the nerfs. Proberly reason why i top the kills with 0 deaths because no one wants to learn, they just wnt to QQ..

 

How can you L2P when your PVP Break-Free is on cooldown? You cannot do anything, you can't play, you can press all the button you want and have the best gear in the game, you. cannot. play.

 

I love how it's okay for operatives to do all this, yet for most other classes to compete we need to use all our cooldowns, trinkets/heals/pvp heal/medpac/shields/defensive stuff/pvp break/stuns just to be able to keep up with it or save us from dying to them.

Not to mention, they can repeat all of this in quick, rapid succesion so, what does it matters if you used all your long cooldowns? Next time he find you it's over even quicker.

 

Then all they need to do is press a few buttons without even trying.

I tried it, it's amazing, few buttons all in a row/macro'd to mouse.

 

 

You do realise taking damage isn't skill based? You can't get better and not getting hit.

You can get gear to slow it down and reduce it, but you can't get better at stopping someone elses damage (aside from stuns etc as mention), especially not when you're stunned.