PjPablo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 with groups of 4 and ops groups of 8 theres no room for error. with that in mind you can tell pretty quickly who fails and who doesn't. if the healer dies, then the tank fails if the tank dies the healer fails if the mobs dont die fast enough the dps sucks, you dont need a 3rd party parser to tell you that, you use your brain. Unfortunately a lot of mmo players seem to be lacking one. to add i played EQ 1 for a long time without any sort of add on, the only "add on" we had was to make the UI look a little cooler but that was it. OR maybe the tank died because he wasn't using cooldowns appropriately or kept standing where he wasn't. Maybe he was supposed to interrupt that last cast and didn't and it actually had nothing to do with the healer. Common rookie mistake. Tank died so MUST be the healer. Let's say mob isn't dying fast enough and you have 5 DPS. Which of them is responsible for not beating that enrage timer? Hey, who keeps breaking all the CC??? Etc Etc Etc I would have more respect for people if they would just come out and say "I don't want people to know how I am doing" as the excuse as opposed to coming up with half-baked, inaccurate reasons why addons, meters, etc are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 with groups of 4 and ops groups of 8 theres no room for error. with that in mind you can tell pretty quickly who fails and who doesn't. if the healer dies, then the tank fails if the tank dies the healer fails if the mobs dont die fast enough the dps sucks, you dont need a 3rd party parser to tell you that, you use your brain. Unfortunately a lot of mmo players seem to be lacking one. if the healer dies, then the tank fails if the tank dies the healer fails if the mobs dont die fast enough the dps sucks you dont need a 3rd party parser to tell you that, you use your brain. Guys, we have a pro raider here. AHAHAHAHHAHA Not every boss is everyone stand still tank and spank fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Let's not kid ourselves. Most addons not UI or AH related are all about epeen pwning a video game so phat loot repositories and grazing rights can go on farm as quickly as possible. Which is usually followed by complaints that the game is too easy and there's not enough content. Having to rely on tools whose sole purpose is to expedite the process of hammering a game into submission might appeal to 15% of players. Fortunately that's only a minority 15% of the revenue base, and EA loves money. ftw: that number came from WOWprogress.com, and represents a generous 1.6M characters out of the 11.1M WoW subs (most of whom have multiple toons) that participate in T11 or higher raids. Statistically the hard core raiding community is a niche, not a majority. Though they would likely trump the "other" 85% in hours played. Too bad it doesn't pay by the hour. Oh wait . . . it doesn't pay at all! Edited January 10, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I would have more respect for people if they would just come out and say "I don't want people to know how I am doing" as the excuse as opposed to coming up with half-baked, inaccurate reasons why addons, meters, etc are bad. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) OR maybe the tank died because he wasn't using cooldowns appropriately or kept standing where he wasn't. Maybe he was supposed to interrupt that last cast and didn't and it actually had nothing to do with the healer. Common rookie mistake. Tank died so MUST be the healer. Let's say mob isn't dying fast enough and you have 5 DPS. Which of them is responsible for not beating that enrage timer? Hey, who keeps breaking all the CC??? Etc Etc Etc I would have more respect for people if they would just come out and say "I don't want people to know how I am doing" as the excuse as opposed to coming up with half-baked, inaccurate reasons why addons, meters, etc are bad. dont take me out of context. theres 4 people in a flashpoint 8 people in a operation. not hard to figure out who youre carrying. To add, i main tank for my guild and I run it. We haven't had issues yet. so if you need a parser to figure out who fails perhaps you are running with the wrong crowd. Edited January 10, 2012 by Peccavi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) dont take me out of context. theres 4 people in a flashpoint 8 people in a operation. not hard to figure out who youre carrying. To add, i main tank for my guild and I run it. We haven't had issues yet. so if you need a parser to figure out who fails perhaps you are running with the wrong crowd. Nope, not hard at all. And yep, wrong crowd. Edited January 10, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Nope, not hard at all. i like your signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 dont take me out of context. theres 4 people in a flashpoint 8 people in a operation. not hard to figure out who youre carrying. You know there are 16 man operations in the game too right? The purpose of meters isn't to just figure out who is being carried. Why are you so obsessed with this idea? I really wonder why. Did it ever occur to you that people just want to know what is going on so they can improve as a group? Have you ever raided with a proper guild? You think the first thing the raid leader does is kick the lowest dps whenever a wipe happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 dont take me out of context. theres 4 people in a flashpoint 8 people in a operation. not hard to figure out who youre carrying. To add, i main tank for my guild and I run it. We haven't had issues yet. so if you need a parser to figure out who fails perhaps you are running with the wrong crowd. 4? sure 8+? Tell me again how you are going to know where the weakness is in your DPS or are you just going to randomly single them out without the data to back it up? In the craziness of an encounter (assume for a second that there will be hard content in TOR) do you think you are going to visually know exactly what is going on at all times with all of the raid? I'll even humor you here and say you can. What's the negative to having the data from addons/meters? Is there an answer other than someone might use that data against me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) You know there are 16 man operations in the game too right? The purpose of meters isn't to just figure out who is being carried. Why are you so obsessed with this idea? I really wonder why. Did it ever occur to you that people just want to know what is going on so they can improve as a group? Have you ever raided with a proper guild? You think the first thing the raid leader does is kick the lowest dps whenever a wipe happens?As long as dev didn't have to "upgrade" the game's mechanics to compensate for addon influence everything would be great. But as WoW showed us they'd have to so it won't be. Yank addons from WoW and most of the end game community would /quit. Don't want or need that here. Edited January 10, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 As long as dev doesn't have to "upgrade" the games mechanics to compensate for addon influence everything would be great. But they'd have to so it won't be because of it. Yank addons from WoW and most of the end game community would /quit. Don't need that here. What's wrong with harder content? More of a challenge would be nice. Also, sounds like with quite of the few posters that are anti-addon that content is easy enough without the extra data that meters bring. The term 'training wheels' likes to get thrown around quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You know there are 16 man operations in the game too right? The purpose of meters isn't to just figure out who is being carried. Why are you so obsessed with this idea? I really wonder why. Did it ever occur to you that people just want to know what is going on so they can improve as a group? Have you ever raided with a proper guild? You think the first thing the raid leader does is kick the lowest dps whenever a wipe happens? have you ever had a debate without insulting someone? People like you are the reason why add ons needs to stay out of the game. they dont promote community they promote an army of one, selfishness and greed. I raided before addons where added on. and we did just fine. we use to raid plane of air and plane of earth or what have you we use to raid molten core just fine and when we noticed something wasnt right we would investigate and watch and listen and then talk to who was low on gear or who looked afk. sometimes we found out people where pressing 1 button and playing xbox during boss fights and I would kick them out of the raid or the guild. if you need an add on because you lack observation skills then im sorry. I for one will not allow them on my raids even if bioware allows them in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 As long as dev doesn't have to "upgrade" the game's mechanics to compensate for addon influence everything would be great. But as WoW showed us they'd have to so it won't be. Yank addons from WoW and most of the end game community would /quit. Don't need that here. And that is why we have different difficulty modes for flash points and operations. I don't remember a single normal mode boss in WoTLK or Cata that required any kind of addons to be successful. They were all easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I for one will not allow them on my raids even if bioware allows them in game. lol good luck. Guys, this is how deluded people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What's wrong with harder content? More of a challenge would be nice. Also, sounds like with quite of the few posters that are anti-addon that content is easy enough without the extra data that meters bring. The term 'training wheels' likes to get thrown around quite a bit.Turning the compelling story of Arthas into the ludicrous ICC King of Defile Oil Slicks all to beat addon cheats is not my idea of harder content. Dev will do just fine coming up with harder content and won't have to jump through add-on hoops to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 lol good luck. Guys, this is how deluded people are.I would report for flaming but it's just too bloody entertaining to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I would report for flaming but it's just too bloody entertaining to watch. im not flaming anyone i just strongly disagree with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Turning the compelling story of Arthas into the ludicrous ICC King of Defile Oil Slicks all to beat addon cheats is not my idea of harder content. Dev will do just fine coming up with harder content and won't have to jump through add-on hoops to do it. Are you trying to say that defile was hard and required addon? Especially normal mode? WoW had a built-in warning for defile. The best method for dealing with defile was to set LK as your focus target and watch for his target change when he's doing defile. Didn't require any addon. This is what most of my guild did for HM LK. I think the world first HM LK kill video had POV of a healer using stock UI. Heck, I remember a lot of my guild had to turn off our addons because of FPS and crash issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 im not flaming anyone i just strongly disagree with it all.Not you bud . . . you're fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Turning the compelling story of Arthas into the ludicrous ICC King of Defile Oil Slicks all to beat addon cheats is not my idea of harder content. Dev will do just fine coming up with harder content and won't have to jump through add-on hoops to do it. Well.... I hope you are right about harder content. Seeing as the vision for 'Nightmare' mode is such that the content is already being beat less than 30 days after launch doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence. If fact, if the game is going to be that easy you guys are right. there isn't any need for tools like meters since its a cakewalk anyway. At least it took 4 months or so to beat MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethknight Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 lol good luck. Guys, this is how deluded people are. @Peccavi, I would actually join your group / guild. As long as you were leader of both. Because it has been proven beyond all doubt that meters are simply tools for elitist exclusion. Nothing more, nothing less. People with real brains do not need such junk and bunk as epeen meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 @Peccavi, I would actually join your group / guild. As long as you were leader of both. Because it has been proven beyond all doubt that meters are simply tools for elitist exclusion. Nothing more, nothing less. People with real brains do not need such junk and bunk as epeen meters. thank you sir, and i am always looking to add like minded competent players if you're on my server (vrook lamar) just follow the link in my signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mineria Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No thanks to bad player addons.Exclusion of slower minded people is an ugly side of humanity.We got enough of it irl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelRee Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No don't ruin this game with addons like recount, gear score etc. I play for fun, not to have some tool pick apart my ability and gear... esp when they suck worse than I do!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No don't ruin this game with addons like recount, gear score etc. I play for fun, not to have some tool pick apart my ability and gear... esp when they suck worse than I do!! Sorry but those tools are going to pick people apart with or without addons. At least with addons they need some proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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