Waagabond Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Dont listen to the people saying its average dps.Probably they are going 31 in a tree then rest in the next. The strenght of the damage of vanguard is that it have very strong synergy with the other trees, especially assault. Commando do not have this. The synergy with gunnery and assault is close to none, where as for the vanguard it fits eachother like the left and right glove.As such, for maximum effort you do a hybrid build, like 0/23/18 for example or similar builds, that focus mainly on high impact bolt, stock strike, Gut and incendiary shot.No need for those 31 point talents really. And for PVP. Vanguards is together with Biotech probably this games most versatile pvp class, with the ability to do great long range damage and kite melee, and able to shut down any casters including mercenaries or snipers, by going melee and using our interupts. The only thing commandos have for them, in terms of damage, is that the assault cannon in itself have a higher base dps. But thats about it. And, its a ton easier to play commando and spec for it, you need to literally use maybe 2 abilities as a commando to do good damage, where as a vanguard you need to work for your dps, hard, but you will achieve same as the commando in pve and ALOT better in pvp since you can do it all on the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themeatmarket Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) for PvE: Since we have no true numbers (PvP numbers are based on survivability and damage done [as opposed to damage per second], and therefore not appropriate for PvE dps comparison) I'll use basic common sense... Calling Vans a 'tank' class and therefore can't dps is as dumb as saying Commando is a 'healer' class and therefor can't dps... -IF-, at this exact moment in time, Vans actually are doing less damage than Commandos (when both are fully specced and geared ONLY for dps) and played properly, they will eventually be balanced will the goal to be equal...It's a game...Things will be adjusted...Think long-term. I'm level 50 and assault spec and I can assure you that I cannot fill the dedicated tank role in my dps gear and spec (for any HM or late-game FP). It would be the most idiotic class system ever, if they made classes capable of multiple roles less effective at those roles when fully committed to them. If that were the case the ONLY dps any republic group should strive to have would be Gunslingers and Sentinels...BW staff meeting: 'Well, too bad for those other classes...They can be something else, THESE are the only two dps classes...everyone else simply won't be able to fill that dps role"...Sure that'd be their goal... p.s. trying to get max PvE dps from 30m on a Van is like staying at 10m with your Shadow because Sages can shoot from range... p.p.s. for PvE dps output, I suggest NOT roling hybrid...Typically your most powerful abilities are hard to get and higher up your tree...That's why they're higher...Typcially... Edited January 15, 2012 by Themeatmarket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronboy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 p.p.s. for PvE dps output, I suggest NOT roling hybrid...Typically your most powerful abilities are hard to get and higher up your tree...That's why they're higher...Typcially... Not when its just a remake of another skill and it shares the same cooldown with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaelMacoss Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 people seem to have their stats confused here, a vanguard CANNOT have higher DPS than a commando, can it have higher total dmg at the end of a round - yes, as in alot of games tanks can often have far higher total dmg than a dps class due to their survivability keeoping them in the fight longer so it adds up more, what people seem to be doing here is not knowing that DPS and damage are 2 different things, DPS OR DAMAGE PER SECOND has nothing in common with total damage done at the end of a round. simply put a commando has higher dps / burst dmg and can heal so is a high priority target for most, a tank who has considerably lower dps / burst and takes more effort to kill is not, so they are left alone alot more and are able to keep their respectable - but lower - dmg going nearly all the time which by the end of the match shows them to of done more damage. end of the day, score sheets dont really tell the whole story - at an extreme example someone laying down 50k damage slowly that doesnt kill anything outright and is all healed away isnt as useful as someone dishing out 25k and killing 2 people as it was to fast to be healed. so to sum up, please stop being confused and saying a vanguard can out dps a commando, youll give new players the wrong idea, as your total damage done is not your dps, its merely you being in the fight longer doing less dps that has added up. laters Monk The scoreboard in PVP shows DPS as well as total damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themeatmarket Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Not when its just a remake of another skill and it shares the same cooldown with it. If you refer to assault plastique (and PvE)... a: It does more single target damage than sticky grenade at the same energy cost (Torhead values are still updating. At level 50, it does more for the same). For single target dps, it is a direct upgrade. This is good. b: For utility, it also loses its AoE. This makes it way more useful on pulls where CC is required. Yes, also for utility, this makes it less good for AoE...Arguably, boss fights are where the raw dps matters most, and when AoE (beyond Mortar and Pulse Cannon which are better per energy cost for Assault) is less important...Also, arguably, maintaining finicky CC on boss fights is where it matters most...This is also good, imo. c: for the Van dps priority list/rotation...I wouldn't want sticky grenade in there as well as plastique. There are better things to use my ammo on that either proc HiB, plasma cell or are elemental damage (which is buffed in Assault tree), without dipping below 3-4 arrows of ammo regen. Once again, a good thing. edit: there's one or two hybrid AS/Tactics builds (to get gut) that people are saying potentially have better dps than pure AS atm...Haven't yet tried it myself. Above is still true, but others have said not enough compared benefit of gut. Just FYI. Edited January 16, 2012 by Themeatmarket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themeatmarket Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) people seem to have their stats confused here, a vanguard CANNOT have higher DPS than a commando, can it have higher total dmg at the end of a round - yes, as in alot of games tanks can often have far higher total dmg than a dps class due to their survivability keeoping them in the fight longer so it adds up more, what people seem to be doing here is not knowing that DPS and damage are 2 different things, DPS OR DAMAGE PER SECOND has nothing in common with total damage done at the end of a round. simply put a commando has higher dps / burst dmg and can heal so is a high priority target for most, a tank who has considerably lower dps / burst and takes more effort to kill is not, so they are left alone alot more and are able to keep their respectable - but lower - dmg going nearly all the time which by the end of the match shows them to of done more damage. end of the day, score sheets dont really tell the whole story - at an extreme example someone laying down 50k damage slowly that doesnt kill anything outright and is all healed away isnt as useful as someone dishing out 25k and killing 2 people as it was to fast to be healed. so to sum up, please stop being confused and saying a vanguard can out dps a commando, youll give new players the wrong idea, as your total damage done is not your dps, its merely you being in the fight longer doing less dps that has added up. laters Monk Just sayin'...You seem to be confused that Commando is a 'dps class that can heal' and Vanguard is a "tank class"...Fully committed dps Vanguards are no tanks... I must say, despite how annoying the above misnomer is for PvE grouping...I do love that most PvP'ers think as you do and leave me alone to kill their friends. Also, I'm not saying Vans (in their current state, at this exact moment in patching history) actually do more dps than Commandos in PvP (or vice versa)...But do note that it is much easier for a long-ranged class to unload more abilities in a shorter time frame thus upping their reported dps (due to potential uninterupted time of optimal abilities on a moving target)...Your dps is even more artificially inflated if, as you say, are considered a high-priority target and die shortly after your burst-dps. That does not, necessarily, equate to sustained dps for a target/targets being healed who require more than the equivalent of one energy/ammo bar in the same fight... All I'm sayin', something to think about... Edited January 15, 2012 by Themeatmarket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmasterub Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 PvP class? Care to elaborate? It's a terrible pvp class if you ask me. at lvl 12 my vanguard was soloing 30+'s in warzones. Theyre pretty beast seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooby Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 at lvl 12 my vanguard was soloing 30+'s in warzones. Theyre pretty beast seriously Doesn't really mean much when the stats of your character are adjusted in warzones. You can take down level 50's at level 10 because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanzibal Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Doesn't really mean much when the stats of your character are adjusted in warzones. You can take down level 50's at level 10 because of it. At level 12 my powertech was crushing 50s. Hello fire damage avoiding armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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