Bashal Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I really wish everyone screaming "nerf this and that!" would just quit the game. The rest of us will be enjoying PvP just the way it is years from now long after everyone has forgotten about what you thought was broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimhand Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Now you want to tone down guard with all the damage in the game, and with all the CC in the game. You people don't know what the **** you are talking about. This. Have one person sit on/lock down the healer while 2-3 attack the tank if you don't have CC....they amount of damage going into the player guarding at that point is insane... I'm a Sentinel and me and my Gunslinger friend can take out a healer/tank combo 2v2 if we coordinate properly..... Seriously, there are so many L2P issues on these forums...I guess that is what happens when players QQ instead of play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 I really wish everyone screaming "nerf this and that!" would just quit the game. The rest of us will be enjoying PvP just the way it is years from now long after everyone has forgotten about what you thought was broke. lol... it's not a "nerf this" thread. It's my class and role I think should be toned down. Some people realize when something is broken even if it's their own class and are willing to admit it. These people are generally good players and not ones that need to rely on being OP/FotM to win in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think some of you missed my initial point. I don't want guard done away with. I am a tank and like using it, I just think it's a bit too good and needs to be toned down. Just my honest opinion after playing a level 50 tank for a while. I've got news for you people who think CCing the healer and focusing me is going to work.. it won't. I will not die in 8 seconds, especially not if I have my CDs up. Pulling a healer away from me won't really work too well either, one of us will be able to get back in range. I also like how you all completely ignored the part about tanks guarding each other. A buddy of mine and I are both tanks (Sin and Powertech) and we simply swap guards back and forth in a fight and are pretty much indestructible against wave after wave of enemy players (for example defending or assaulting a cannon on Alderaan). It's just a little too good. Like I said, I like the mechanics of guarding and taunting in this game. It's great that tanks can have a real role in PVP besides being annoying/hard to kill stun bots like in WoW. I just think it needs some tweaking. Yes, it's easy to seperate the tank and healer actually.... Step 1: Force push/pull the healer away Step 2: Hard CC the tank and/or Force push/pull them in the opposite direction Step 3: Focus down the now unguarded healer Step 4: If the tank tries to leap back in, repeat from step 1. Step 5: If the tank leaps back in and has a full bar of resilence, go with the split damage method. I have an easy time seperating Tanks from there healers since my toolkit consists of: Force stasis (Hard channeled CC) Force Push (position manipulation CC) Freezing Force (Soft slow CC) Awe (AoE Hard instant CC) Force exhaustion (Ramping Soft slow CC) I'll usually leap in, Push the healer back towards my team, use Awe on the tank...as soon as he breaks that, I'll Force stasis until that breaks and throw force exhaustion on him with freezing force as back up, making sure to keep one eye on the healer to throw a saber throw/despatch in his direction should he be keeping himself at skirting hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yes, it's easy to seperate the tank and healer actually.... Step 1: Force push/pull the healer away Step 2: Hard CC the tank and/or Force push/pull them in the opposite direction Step 3: Focus down the now unguarded healer Step 4: If the tank tries to leap back in, repeat from step 1. Step 5: If the tank leaps back in and has a full bar of resilence, go with the split damage method. I have an easy time seperating Tanks from there healers since my toolkit consists of: Force stasis (Hard channeled CC) Force Push (position manipulation CC) Freezing Force (Soft slow CC) Awe (AoE Hard instant CC) Force exhaustion (Ramping Soft slow CC) I'll usually leap in, Push the healer back towards my team, use Awe on the tank...as soon as he breaks that, I'll Force stasis until that breaks and throw force exhaustion on him with freezing force as back up, making sure to keep one eye on the healer to throw a saber throw/despatch in his direction should he be keeping himself at skirting hp. This works well in a world where the people you are fighting are AFK. Usually people you fight press their buttons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 This works well in a world where the people you are fighting are AFK. Usually people you fight press their buttons too. Timing, patience and knowing the sweet spot for every one of your skills and knowing how to make your own resilence bar work for you is a great thing. I often do this, it isn't hard, just requires the slightest amount of coordination and most of all, proper positioning, sure leaping into 3-4 enemies is absolute suicide...this is why you would pop saber ward first. Trust me on this, the Tank you are CC'ing is not going to be smacking his leap button when you are chain CC'ing him and keeping him away from his healer, he is going to be getting quite annoyed....at you and his focus will shift onto trying to stop you....makes your job 20x easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernetic Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Timing, patience and knowing the sweet spot for every one of your skills and knowing how to make your own resilence bar work for you is a great thing. I often do this, it isn't hard, just requires the slightest amount of coordination and most of all, proper positioning, sure leaping into 3-4 enemies is absolute suicide...this is why you would pop saber ward first. Trust me on this, the Tank you are CC'ing is not going to be smacking his leap button when you are chain CC'ing him and keeping him away from his healer, he is going to be getting quite annoyed....at you and his focus will shift onto trying to stop you....makes your job 20x easier. I am that tank and I have about 4 different ways to avoid your CC and many more to counter your entire strategy. It's not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoE_Jarcus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Someone obviously never played WAR (or played it badly). Guard / Taunt are some of the main "synergy" skills of a tank in PvP. Otherwise, they get ignored and killed last by a smart team. As an earlier post said, pay attention to the buffs for icons and learn to play with/against guard. Keep the tank cc'd and/or knocked back out of range of guard as much as possible and easily take down their guarded target. Easier than that 1.1 patch notes say they're increasing the visuals.. Now ima be bright n shiny when I guard you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordicus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Oh hell no! I love how effective pvp tanking is in this game! It's my favourite role in MMOs. Now you want that to be "nerfed" as well?! Just no! Get the hell out of here with this stuff. I could deal with all the pvp whinning up to now on these forums because a lot of the criticism was justiffied, but now you're going to complain about one of the few things that are great about this game's pvp?! No. Just no. Nerfing guard mode will break up tank specs in pvp making tank spec pve only spec. I too love that tanks have role in pvp with guard mode and also they have extra CC skill compared to dps specs. Breking something that is great in this game like tanks have role in pvp too is poor chance. Edited January 7, 2012 by Nordicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblongship Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 While we are at it, tanks shouldn't be allowed to wear armor in PvP it's just not fair and the fact that they can use WEAPONS?! *** BW! Please take that away too! Also can we do something about their hit points? It took me nearly 5 seconds to kill one of them the other day and despite my roots, snares, push back and all escape mechanics I have, he was able to land a hit on me. PLEASE NERF THEM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csward Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 now you want to tone down guard with all the damage in the game, and with all the cc in the game. You people don't know what the **** you are talking about. qft.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I play a tank and make full use of guard in warzones, it's way too good. I think the 50% number needs to be tuned down to maybe 25% or so. If I have guard on a good healer it could take 5+ people to kill just the two of us, and even then it takes forever. That is broken. What is actually even more broken is a tank guarding another tank. Now you say, "so what? 50% of the damage goes to you." but then you forget about taunt and other damage/accuracy reducing abilities that tanks have. I can effectively reduce damage on a target by 85% almost indefinitely. Needs to be toned down. Obviously you don't understand the mechanic if you think is overpower, top by the fact that you said you are a tank, you must be a really bad one. Calling for a nerf on the ability of a tank to do its job is the most retarted thing I have seeing here by far, please re-roll and leave tanking to the real tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I am that tank and I have about 4 different ways to avoid your CC and many more to counter your entire strategy. It's not hard. This begins to make me think you are indeed ignorant to the whole way CC, etc works and things classes have. If you are not going to be hard CC'ed, you are going to be soft CC'ed and the position manipulation can be used against your healer, it's actually possible to push them away quite a fair bit while chain snaring you so by the time you do get into range to leap, your healer is already dead. Heck if it's Huttball I'll just have done with it and push you straight into a flame pit and hold you there....lets see your guard work now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaze-Yama Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Wow coming from someone that plays tank why would you nerf the main ability and function of that role in pvp. You are lucky you get heals because the 90% of the time you don't get heals as a tank it is perfectly fine. Of course two people working effectively as a team are going to be hard to bring down that just means the enemies you face must suck if they can't focus the healer and interrupt his heals or switch off to focus the tank. I'm extremely happy with the way tanks play in PVP I don't think they need changed at all it is actually a way to play defense without being forced into a healing roll which is very fun to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReckonerH Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Nerfing guard mode will break up tank specs in pvp making tank spec pve only spec. I too love that tanks have role in pvp with guard mode and also they have extra CC skill compared to dps specs. Breking something that is great in this game like tanks have role in pvp too is poor chance. Yeah no doubt. If guard gets nerfd for pvp I'm dropping pvp tanking first chance I get. Im not gonna waste my time trying to protect people while gimped. As it stands right now, guard+taunt is effective, promotes team work and adds an interesting role. If it aint broke dont fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repefe Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Smart people look for the Guard icon, CC the person Guarded and focus down the one Guarding. Thing is the mechanic is stupid simple to use yet require special attention and coordination of whole team to beat ... kind of like dealing with healers. They just mindlessly spam heal everyone and tell ppl to be smart when trying to deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 If I have guard on a good healer it could take 5+ people to kill just the two of us, and even then it takes forever. That is broken. . Guard is fine the problem is the lack of any counter in game to healing, No reduced healing debuff. No decent interrupt mechanics, and resolve makes locking them down pointless. Summery: guard is fine, however counters for healing need to put in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 This is just completely and utterly untrue. There's nothing in the game that dies as fast as a tank with guard on. All it takes is smart use of the aoes in your rotation and he takes 150% damage from them all. Of course you can 2v5 idiots. I can 1v5 idiots. Who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcarinn Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Thing is the mechanic is stupid simple to use yet require special attention and coordination of whole team to beat ... kind of like dealing with healers. They just mindlessly spam heal everyone and tell ppl to be smart when trying to deal with them. No there is NO PROBLEM with guard... you realise you ahve to be within 15meters of guarded person to intercept damage? 1 knockback and guard goes byby and before i move back while 1 slowing me down the 2nd person can kill the healer or whatever... its an issue of l2p.... guard is fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repefe Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 No there is NO PROBLEM with guard... you realise you ahve to be within 15meters of guarded person to intercept damage? 1 knockback and guard goes byby and before i move back while 1 slowing me down the 2nd person can kill the healer or whatever... its an issue of l2p.... guard is fine... I don't understand how this is a counter argument ... guard is stupid simple to set up yet require coordination of multiple dps to beat. Coordination that does not happen in pugs. Also what knockback can push you 15 meters away and what stops the healer from coming to you for the guard ... a lot of work to negate the one button press you did. After that there is still a healer at full hp to down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcarinn Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I don't understand how this is a counter argument ... guard is stupid simple to set up yet require coordination of multiple dps to beat. Coordination that does not happen in pugs. Also what knockback can push you 15 meters away and what stops the healer from coming to you for the guard ... a lot of work to negate the one button press you did. After that there is still a healer at full hp to down. it requires coordination of 1 knockback and cc of 1 dps on 1 tank and cc of other dps on other healer... thats about it... Besides there is 8vs8 in warzones maybe someone will help. guard is fine... i use it and i see tons of ways to defeat it... but if person is stupid and attacks player with blue shield around him sure he deserves nothing but to fail over and over again as i said its l2p Constant slowdown and cc is what is game breaking not guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Guard is fine the problem is the lack of any counter in game to healing, No reduced healing debuff. No decent interrupt mechanics, and resolve makes locking them down pointless. Summery: guard is fine, however counters for healing need to put in place. Is this a joke? Marauders/Sentinels have a healing debuff Every AC except 1 gets a low cooldown interrupt Every class gets CC spells they can use on healers Everything you said is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 If I have guard on a good healer it could take 5+ people to kill just the two of us, and even then it takes forever. That is broken. . Guard is fine the problem is the lack of any counter in game to healing, No reduced healing debuff. No decent interrupt mechanics, and resolve makes locking them down pointless. Summery: guard is fine, however counters for healing need to put in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repefe Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Is this a joke? Marauders/Sentinels have a healing debuff Every AC except 1 gets a low cooldown interrupt Every class gets CC spells they can use on healers Everything you said is wrong. You realize the interrupt does not lock schools right ... it's gcd trading with no effect on the healer. You realize that healers get cc/escapes as well ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISGG Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 You realize the interrupt does not lock schools right ... it's gcd trading with no effect on the healer. You realize that healers get cc/escapes as well ? You realize that the good healing spells for every healer are 2+ second casts and if you interrupt them at the end of the cast they lose a ton of time and have to swap over to using less efficient heals that heal for less HP, right...? And then you can use your stun or any other interrupt you have on the next cast, and then your interrupt is back up... right? I mean there's no excuse for not noticing these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts