Why aren't we allowed to complain?

[Moroder]

....i Stopped reading when you said the game is still in Beta....hyperbole much?

[Hotte]

Tell me in which category I am incorrect, and I'll argue my point better than yours, thus winning and being crowned King of the Internet.

 

And this is where you err. Your feeble attempt of humour aside, you will be argueing opinions, not rock-hard facts. Thus no one will win.

No one will ever be able to change your mind, because I believe you don't want it to be changed.

 

You say red > blue > white.

I say white > red > blue.

 

Who is right? Who is wrong?

 

Or to be more blunt: I like this game and nothing (in words: nothing) you (!) say, write or spray-paint on walls will change that. And vice versa nothing I say will ever change that you have some serious issues with this game. Whether rightly so or not is irrelevant.

 

Does this (young) game has flaws? Yes, definitely, and this is the only thing we can agree upon.

Am I willing to give the team the time to fix those? Yes, definitely.

 

Are you willing to do that? It seems not.

[Korrigan]

Rift > WoW > SWTOR in terms of difficulty (cutting edge raiding)

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of combat smoothness

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of accessibility

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of story

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of efficiency

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of PvP

SWTOR > Rift > WoW in terms of levelling

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of balance

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of playable content

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of 'size'

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of MMO

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of RPG

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of number of cinematics

Here is MY "accurate breakdown" of those three games:

 

WoW > SWTOR = Rift in terms of difficulty in raiding.

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of difficulty (solo play/small group/leveling). Yeah, it's been long time I didn't see really challenging SOLO encounters in a MMO, some where you eventually die once or twice before succeeding.

SWTOR = WoW > Rift in terms of combat smoothness (lol @ Rift's combat... utter joke)

SWTOR = WoW > Rift in terms of accessibility

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of PvP (lol @ Rift PvP... SWTOR warzones are 1000x more fun than Rift's crappy PvP)

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of leveling (just the fact you put Rift before WoW is hillarious here... but whatever).

WoW = SWTOR > Rift in terms of balance

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of content

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of size (again, the fact you put Rift before SWTOR is hilarious... SWTOR dwarfs Rift in total playable world area so badly it's not even funny)

WoW = SWTOR = Rift in terms of MMO - all three are MMOs.

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of RPG (only point we seem to agree on)

SWTOR = WoW > Rift in terms of cinematics (depends what you call "cinematics" though, for me it's the cinematic videos)

 

The only reason WoW has more leading positions is because it's 7 years old, notably on world size and amount of content. Rift is a crap game I didn't even finish the first "free" month of, with sluggish combat and a boring small world. Yeah, Rift had guild banks and a customizable UI at release... but that doesn't make a good game. I take SWTOR gameplay ANYTIME over Rift's crappy combat and boring world.

 

Remember, opinions are like lower back holes... everybody has one.

 

Anyway, we will see who puts their money where their mouth is January 20 (in 14 days).

Edited January 6, 2012 by Korrigan

[FirstAngelus]

Well.... I disagree with the game still beeing in beta... compared to other game launches I wintessed (especially the pure disaster the Age of Conan launch was...) that games feels like being online for years.... Star Trek online is MUCH MORE unstable after 2 years of running time...

 

That said... I agree that the Fanboys arround ARE a problem. I recently had a bug and asked in the general chat chanel how to come out of that problem.... the result were just insults instead of any advice. For anything negative you mention you are flamed.

 

While I have seen similar in other games, I thing the fanboy attitude is ESPECIALLY bad in TOR. And the people do not even realize that they damage the game they obviously love so much more then helping it.

They are not helping since... well... never in history of this universe were any progress achieved through just worshiping anything, constructive feedback will help the Developers to make the game better.

Of course random whining doesnt help either, but if ANY feedback wich is not just "the game is SO awsomne I love EVERYTHING about it" is put down, especially in such a way it happens here, nobody gives usefull feedback anymore.

 

Also it causes a bad atmosphere in the comunity, and since lot of people play MMOs to socialise that kind ot anti-social behaviour will people cause to leave... and people leaving is simply a bad thing, if the fanboys like those people or not.

 

So yeah, I'd consider that a general problem too.

[Xerda]

I enjoy the game. Crazy, I know.

 

Enjoying the game doens't mean you can't be critical of it. I enjoy the game but there are also aspects I'm not happy with.

[SnapWolf]

I don't know how to fix the mess Bioware has created. I'm not a programmar, nor do I pretend to be one. I do know that animation length is largely to do with the combat system being wildly unresponsive and slow, but I have no idea how to fix it other than "allow clipping" (what WoW does, hence their incredibly smooth combat system).

 

What people fail to remember is this: SWTOR does the aestethics of a game well, they do the core gameplay, mechanics and basic functions however rather poorly. This is my gripe with the game. The majority seem to be content, and pleased, that the game appeals to aestethics users rather than users who strive for good (read=complete, working, smooth) gameplay.

 

I'd only like to point out that your gripes with the game are your own and personal and subjective opinions on the game, TC.

 

You may defend your position as to why this game sucks, but remember that you are the only one defending it. You do not represent anyone else.

[Dasset]

That is why people aren't allowed to complain or give critical feedback and opinions...

It's one thing to give constructive feedback, or complain about a legit issue. But if you read some posts on the forums you can clearly see how silly some people are (I'm talking about complete utter whining-like-a-*****).

 

I did not wish to pay to get into beta, but it sure feels like it's beta. But instead of crying about it on the forums, I feedback the stuff I see to help them make the game better. It's not required, but I want to do it, because I freakin love this game.

 

 

A couple of things not mentioned in the OP's list:

 

Game-Age: WoW > Rift > SW:TOR (take into consideration that "WoW > Rift > SW:TOR" was the most common one in the list.. see the pattern?).

 

In-game maturity on players:

SW:TOR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WoW

 

% of helpful playets in-game:

SW:TOR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WoW

Edited January 6, 2012 by Dasset

[Snyd]

Ahh, another "This game suxs and if you don't agree you're just not as cool as me!" thread.

 

hahaha, this pretty much sums everything here up

[Yfelsung]

The funny part:

 

SWTOR is less buggy today than some games that are 7 years old.

 

Guess what, no MMO exists on earth that is not riddled with bugs all the time.

 

You can't fix every bug, because new bugs emerge.

 

You people act like Rift and WoW aren't being patched ALL THE TIME for HUNDREDS OF BUGS. WoW's patch notes today are 5 times longer than most games and it's STILL FULL OF BUGS.

[Cranberries]

People saying WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of raiding lose all credibility. The reason why I liked Rift was because largely the end game cutting edge encounters are far tougher, and far less sporadic in terms of difficulty (heroic shannox v heroic ragnaros) than WoW.

 

Ragnaros => Akylios > Spine/Madness of Deathwing > all SWTOR end game content.

[Zinny]

WoW was released 14th November 2004.

Patch 1.1.0 was released 7th November 2004: http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.0

 

I suggest you read that, because it debunks your argument.

 

The current end game for SWTOR is bugged: incomplete, wildly unresponsive and just purely impossible to manage because of the core gameplay funtions the game lacks.

 

You're looking through rose tinted glasses. The down time on servers was so bad in WoW that they were forced to pause subscriptions and give people free days. Balance issues were all over the place. And read that list. It had 1 raid. One stinking raid that's a 40-man and lasts like 4 hours. I remember people complaining there is nothing to do sitting in Orgrimmar.

 

Battlegrounds weren't added in for at least several months and ones like Temple of Ahn'Qiraj weren't added in for months either. WoW was a broken piece of crap at launch but it was the smoothest out of a genre known for being BUSTED at launch. TOR is by far the most complete and least buggy(but still, obviously, buggy) MMO launch, ever.

[HerrFett]

you obviously do not like this game

 

..so why are you here posting this?

 

Go play Hello Panda Adventure or whatever you want. You aren't forced to play this.

 

I don't like WoW anymore and haven't played in months, but I don't go post on the WoW forums about how I dislike it so much.

 

????????????

 

^The best example of a fanboy.

[EssBen]

 

Remember, opinions are like lower back holes... everybody has one.

 

and they all stink, except mine

[Pblogic]

Let me be the bearer of bad news: STORY ENDS at some point. What will you do? Stop playing? What about the rest of us who want to enjoys raiding and pvp, and be here for a log time?

 

That's a rather selfish attitude.

 

 

Is it? Didn't you just do the same thing I did from the opposite side? That was pretty blatantly hypocritical. I'm not even saying you can't have both. I'm saying I personally don't want to sacrifice the story for dice rolling. And yes, I would eventually quit if that's what happened. This game was billed as "be the star of your own star wars saga" not "jump around in circles with the l337 kids from wow that spend 80 hours a week trying to be the best at jumping in circles"

 

I don't even care if you guys do want to go jump in your circles and roll your dice. I already said I respect the prerogative. However there are plenty of games out there that focus way more on that kind of play than story. I'd hate to see this one go that way as well. If that's what the majority of the community wants, that is what will happen and then I will go play a different game. No big deal...

 

And of course our opinions are selfish by definition. It's an expression of preference. Preference can only be related to the self (even if that preference is to be fair or balanced) that is YOUR preference. Every feeling is selfish, mine was no more selfish than yours. That is a silly thing to debate.

[Cranberries]

You're looking through rose tinted glasses. The down time on servers was so bad in WoW that they were forced to pause subscriptions and give people free days. Balance issues were all over the place. And read that list. It had 1 raid. One stinking raid that's a 40-man and lasts like 4 hours. I remember people complaining there is nothing to do sitting in Orgrimmar.

 

Battlegrounds weren't added in for at least several months and ones like Temple of Ahn'Qiraj weren't added in for months either. WoW was a broken piece of crap at launch but it was the smoothest out of a genre known for being BUSTED at launch. TOR is by far the most complete and least buggy(but still, obviously, buggy) MMO launch, ever.

 

You're forgetting though. When WoW was released people were willing to wait in the queue of fixes because "it was the best." SWTOR is by no means "the best". It is fairly average in a few aspects, and rather poor is the majority of aspects. People wont just enter any random movie because it has no queue, but people will watch the blockbuster movies that have hour long queues (read: Harry Potter Deathly Hallows 1+2) because they're worth the wait.

 

SWTOR isn't worth the wait. It's missing too much.

[mrache]

There's a huge difference between well reasoned complaints and whining like a spoiled little 4 year old that just needs a good spanking.

 

One is useful to the developers and helps them to address issues, the other is just trolling and pisses off the far larger majority of people who are actually enjoying the game and aren't experiencing the supposed "rampant" problems that seem to affect a small number of people.

 

News Flash.....The developers released the game knowing the issues. That's called beta testing.

When you say supposed "rampant" problems, Does that mean someone is lying? Or maybe they are delusional. Your post is a troll post.

[Boundd]

Because you are a troll who made about 5 other troll threads.

 

Of course you already know this.

[Jamus_Divinus]

The game is still in beta. This much is obvious. There are a ton of bugs which make the game incomplete.

 

Why are so many people against other people complaining about legitimate issues? This game is a complete failure at the moment. Someone asked me, the other day, to give my run down of SWTOR, WoW and Rift and this is what I came up with:

 

Rift > WoW > SWTOR in terms of difficulty (cutting edge raiding)

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of combat smoothness

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of accessibility

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of story

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of efficiency

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of PvP

SWTOR > Rift > WoW in terms of levelling

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of balance

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of playable content

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of 'size'

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of MMO

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of RPG

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of number of cinematics

 

I do not care if WoW came out in the year 2004, the fact is we're in 2012 and many of the things SWTOR currently lacks WoW had, and was praised for (smoothness of combat) during it's initial first few months of launch. My accurate breakdown of WoW, Rift and SWTOR doesn't make SWTOR any less of a game, for me. I want SWTOR to succeed, but it needs to be brought up to present day expectations.

 

You need to look up the words 'subjective', 'fact' and 'opinion' then maybe meditate a few minutes on what those three words mean.

 

You have stated one fact. One. 'we're in 2012'...that's it. The rest is a bunch of opinions you're trying to turn into facts.

 

All of this is useless though until you finally understand what 'subjective' means. Please go look it up, we can wait

 

Yours is not an accurate breakdown. It's a subjective comparison between 3 games. A grip you must get.

 

P.S. TOR has bugs. TOR could do with some changes. However the only 'failure' around here are posts like the OP imo. Your opinion does matter...as much as mine does. No more no less.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Jamus_Divinus

[Hotte]

 

SWTOR isn't worth the wait. It's missing too much.

 

Then, and I already regret it:

 

Don't wait.

 

Yes, this is the typical "fanboy love it or leave it" answer, but what else do you expect?

[Cranberries]

Then, and I already regret it:

 

Don't wait.

 

Yes, this is the typical "fanboy love it or leave it" answer, but what else do you expect?

 

Well, Bioware could communicate with the playerbase to explain what issues are a priority. Look at the WoW forums: multiple devs took the time to discuss the nerf (fix?) that was applied to a specific weapon from the Deathwing encounter in WoW because Retribution Paladins could get double the procs via their Censure.

 

Bioware doesn't communicate. Not nearly enough.

[Fraxture]

A lot of "white knight" fan boi's who think anyone with their own opinion that doesn't suit there's is a "troll". That is why people aren't allowed to complain or give critical feedback and opinions...

 

I see a lot of people complaining about "qq's and trolls" when there is about 10 to 1 of these white knighters around.

 

Nope, beating a dead horse.

The issues are there, and they are going to address them when they see fit.

 

If that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, then off you go.

 

Otherwise, take your Ritalin and settle down.

 

It's not complaints that are the issue.

It's the daily reiteration of the same issue over and over in a hope it will make things go faster.

Which it will not, as you can see from Bioware's activities so far.

 

But keep beating your head against that brick wall in hopes you will receive a different result each time.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Fraxture

[Tal-N]

The game is still in beta. This much is obvious. There are a ton of bugs which make the game incomplete.

 

You have very little experience in launch MMOs then if you think that the game is more unfinished than any other MMO that has been previously released. One of the core reasons why your opinion is less interesting is because you are whining about stuff that is in the process of being fixed for a game that was launched during a holiday season.

 

Most of the staff deserved to be off from work so patches haven't been worked on for several weeks. Sure, it was a bad idea to launch during the holiday season given that their staff was away but then again you need to weigh the good against the bad rather than focussing on the negative.

 

SWTOR does a ton of stuff really well, the majority of the game is of high quality but people like you are obsessing about the other 10% of stuff that is broken and WILL be fixed within the next month.

[stitchersflock]

Nope not Beta and if you think Rift is a success than I pity you. Oh and fyi, raiding is not the be all, end all of gaming. Game isn't buggy and has FAR more things going for it compared to Rift and WOW. If you aren't happy, I beleive the door is that way -->

[Amiracle]

The game is still in beta. This much is obvious. There are a ton of bugs which make the game incomplete.

 

Why are so many people against other people complaining about legitimate issues? This game is a complete failure at the moment. Someone asked me, the other day, to give my run down of SWTOR, WoW and Rift and this is what I came up with:

 

Rift > WoW > SWTOR in terms of difficulty (cutting edge raiding)

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of combat smoothness

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of accessibility

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of story

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of efficiency

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of PvP

SWTOR > Rift > WoW in terms of levelling

WoW > SWTOR > Rift in terms of balance

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of playable content

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of 'size'

WoW > Rift > SWTOR in terms of MMO

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of RPG

SWTOR > WoW > Rift in terms of number of cinematics

 

I do not care if WoW came out in the year 2004, the fact is we're in 2012 and many of the things SWTOR currently lacks WoW had, and was praised for (smoothness of combat) during it's initial first few months of launch. My accurate breakdown of WoW, Rift and SWTOR doesn't make SWTOR any less of a game, for me. I want SWTOR to succeed, but it needs to be brought up to present day expectations.

 

 

 

You lost me with Rift pvp...............at this point I would just go and hide.

[Zinny]

You're forgetting though. When WoW was released people were willing to wait in the queue of fixes because "it was the best." SWTOR is by no means "the best". It is fairly average in a few aspects, and rather poor is the majority of aspects. People wont just enter any random movie because it has no queue, but people will watch the blockbuster movies that have hour long queues (read: Harry Potter Deathly Hallows 1+2) because they're worth the wait.

 

SWTOR isn't worth the wait. It's missing too much.

 

I disagree, I think TOR is better than WoW in many, many aspects. And WoW wasn't "the best" at the start. You think they got 10 million subs at launch? That took years to reach.

 

Your example is Harry Potter Deathly Hallows 1+2 when WoW was more like Harry Potters and the philosopher's stone, the book. It was fantastic but took many years to build up what it was.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Zinny