A guide to Annihilation PvE dps

[BarcodeX]

@ Glut

It's all up to you if you wanna roll Carnage or another tree, that's the point of respecing, to try out something new. I personally would recommend Rage or PvE lvling, but some have said Annihilation is great for lvling as well (I beg to differ).

 

@ fawk

Just looked at your talent tree and the only difference I have is that you have 2 in Defensive Roll and I have 2 in Enraged Charge. I don't really see a need in Defensive Roll in PvE. As a Marauder, you should NOT be getting targeted by AOEs just as the other DPS shouldn't be. There are a good amount of AOEs in both HM FP as well as Operations, but a majority of them can be avoided. I am aware of some skills that cannot be avoided, such as Annihilation Droid XRR-3 (shockwave, sweeping slash, and that one AOE missle that targets a player but does AOE dmg) in Eternity Vault. As marauders, as you know of course, that we have shields and that's when to pop them. Not to mention we have medpacks and we're Annihilation so technically we can heal partial of the hits. PvP has pretty much the same reason as this. I have Enraged Charge because that 1 extra rage point makes a HUGE difference in terms of my skill rotation when counting up if my rage points.

 

@ kinesjl

In regards to Defensive roll see the paragraph above. I'm considering dropping Enraged Charge to test out Malice at 2 points. 4% is minimal, but it can still be effective.

Edited January 6, 2012 by BarcodeX

[JCDIP]

Thanks for the tips

[Aluvi]

Yes. It's force attack.

 

Look the skill details:

 

SpellDamage: SpellType=>Force, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.02, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>0.2, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.02, DamageType=>Internal

 

 

And I see the force camo usefull in bosses like the hk47 adds phase when he mark, shot and vanish

 

Thanks a bunch for this info, but I am still not sold that 6% better crits on bleed damage (what with my bleed crit already being so high and getting guaranteed crits from berserk) is worth drpping 4% accuracy or 30% aoe dmg reduction. In raids, there is a LOT of aoe damage going out on almost every fight. 30% reduction to it has surely saved my life a few times already.

 

As for the OP, well done man, I was thinking about doing something like this myself. People really underestimate how much damage those bleeds do, since you see MANY somewhat smaller numbers (1-2k ish per tick) vs big numbers. Also, I have yet to see a carnage ability crit bigger than annihilate when you add the 2 numbers together. I think my record for annihilate is just under 7k, and im sure with better weapons 8 - 9k is doable.

 

Everything that you said is correct, But I'd like to add in a few things, specifically about how to deal with those aoe packs when soloing or in flashpoints:

 

People tend to forget about 2 of our most potent abilities: Pommel Strike and our Kick. I do not really go for aoeing targets unless It's a big aoe pile in a flashpoint or operation. When facing a group of 4-5 mobs, I will force charge a weaker (normal) enemy, activate deadly sabers mid charge, and immediately use my kick. If it crits, mob will die instantly. If not, I use battering assault to finish it + build rage. Next, I find another weak enemy, Force Scream + Pommel Strike (you have to force scream to be able to use pommel strike, just like you have to immobilize or slow to be able to use kick). This will also kill a normal enemy. Now you are typically left with 1 normal enemy + 1 silver elite enemy. The normal can be dispatched quite quickly with an annihilate, sometimes also I will use my smash, since it does ok dmg and hits both remaining targets. Once only the silver elite remains, re apply deadly saber, rupture him, ravage (only let 1 second, or 2 ticks go off), and assault/annihilate till sub 20%, then vicious throw to finish him off. If you do this, you will end up with 100% hp at the end with dead mobs all around you.

 

So to recap, use these combos to 1 shot the weaker mobs and reduce your dmg taken/increase kill speed dramatically:

 

Force Charge + Deadly Kick (use deadly sabers midair also) -> Use Battering assault to finish or on next mob.

 

Force Scream + Pommel strike = dead mob

 

Annihilate + assault

 

On silver elite: DS, Rupture, ravage (1 second or 2 ticks) / annihilate or slash to interrupt. Vicious slash to execute.

 

This is going to take spread out mobs down incredibly fast and reduce your dmg taken, rather than trying to aoe them all. This also works great in hardmode flashpoints where mobs with high dmg output but low hp spawn. Obviously, when 3-4 of them spawn together, using smash is ideal.

[BarcodeX]

Thanks a bunch for this info, but I am still not sold that 6% better crits on bleed damage (what with my bleed crit already being so high and getting guaranteed crits from berserk) is worth drpping 4% accuracy or 30% aoe dmg reduction. In raids, there is a LOT of aoe damage going out on almost every fight. 30% reduction to it has surely saved my life a few times already.

 

IMO it's only worth dropping accuracy if you are STRICTLY PvE. It's definitely need for PvP since over 100% accuracy = defense reduction on opponents = good.

 

As for Defensive Roll, I still think it is unnecessary in PvE. I've done a few raids myself and it is true AoEs are everywhere, but a large portion of them CAN be avoided. If you've done raids already and expect an non-avoidable AoE, pop up your shields and take a medpack. That's what us melees in my guild are supposed to do. The 30% armor reduction is great, but if you can avoid the AoE's and/or go up against bosses with minimal AoE's, the benefits of other talents in replace of it such as Malice outweighs it.

Edited January 6, 2012 by BarcodeX

[Lostpenguins]

IMO it's only worth dropping accuracy if you are STRICTLY PvE. It's definitely need for PvP since over 100% accuracy = defense reduction on opponents = good./QUOTE]

 

Wait, what? You definitely need accuracy for PvE.

[kinesjl]

@ kinesjl

In regards to Defensive roll see the paragraph above. I'm considering dropping Enraged Charge to test out Malice at 2 points. 4% is minimal, but it can still be effective.

 

Let me know how this works out, as I'm torn between the two myself. Enraged charge would likely mitigate most, if not all, of those situations where I feel the need to switch the order of battering assault and deadly charge in order to front load rage. I'm interested to see whether this or the extra 4% from malice provides more aggregate benefit.

[BarcodeX]

@ Lost

If you're talking about the defense reduction, I don't think it's by much if you're over 100% (don't quote me on this, never tested). Other than that, I see no reason to get Narrowed Hatred for PvE. I don't ever recall myself missing my hits unless it was due to a debuff (except when I was at lower levels).

 

@ kinesjl

For PvP I'm keeping Enraged Charge, but raiding I'm guessing I'm going to need/want Malice more since I wouldn't have too much of an issue "trying" to keep rage up since the bosses don't have the mechanics of an actual player. But it'll need testing though.

Edited January 6, 2012 by BarcodeX

[Traejun]

I dont know whether the OP does, but I do.

 

Force Charge/deadly saber whilst in the air isnt just an opener, I hit it every time I can during a fight on a gold boss.

 

Same. I wish I could macro it - I'd throw in a "LEEEERRRROOOOOOOOOY" for full effect.

[Lostpenguins]

@ Lost

If you're talking about the defense reduction, I don't think it's by much if you're over 100% (don't quote me on this, never tested). Other than that, I see no reason to get Narrowed Hatred for PvE. I don't ever recall myself missing my hits unless it was due to a debuff (except when I was at lower levels).

 

General consensus is that you need about 110-115% hit accuracy to never miss on bosses in operations.

[Lostpenguins]

Same. I wish I could macro it - I'd throw in a "LEEEERRRROOOOOOOOOY" for full effect.

 

Man, if macros were in the game it'd be hilariously easy to dps. Take the Anni Spec:

 

You'd have one button that would try the abilities in top-down format:

Deadly Sabers

Rupture

Annihilate

Battering Assault

Vicious Slash

Force Scream

Assault

 

Leave Charge and Ravage on their own keybinds as well as your situationals (Slam, Interrupts, etc.).

 

But you're pretty much spamming one button the whole fight... while I sort of hope they make macros... I sort of don't...

[fawxz]

I used carnage never had any really big problem, with leveling right now i'm lvl 39

but i just wan't to go to another tree. Could i keep continue with carnage or switch to yours?

 

All specs are viable for leveling with Quinn. Anni or Rage will probably have less downtime than carnage at higher levels. I would recommend switching if you are in a raiding guild, but for flashpoints carnage should still be fine.

[fawxz]

Excellent guide which delineates almost entirely the manner in which I have been levelling my Marauder. The only, admittedly minor, question I would have regarding spec is the feasibility of trading out defensive roll for 2/3 in Malice. In terms of dps it would be a minor increase, and there is synergy with our self-heals from bleed crits, however I am uncertain as to the degree to which defensive roll is necessary at higher levels. Would you consider this 31/8/2 variant viable, or is defensive roll essential at 50?

 

One other very minor suggestion I would like to add is that in certain encounters where I anticipate greater initial rage expenditure, I switch the order of battering assault and deadly saber to front load rage. There is really no clear cut rule for this, it's rather intuitive, but in certain encounters it can be beneficial.

 

In any event, thanks for the constructive input and any feedback you could offer on the aforementioned would be greatly appreciated.

 

Defensive roll is amazing at soaking raid damage. For example tanking the Missile Barrage from the first boss in hardmode Eternity Vault. You will want to have dps eating the missiles instead of taking cover because the enrage is very tight. When Dual Spec comes I will have one 31/10/0 and one 31/8/2, switching for different encounters. For now there is quite a lot of raidwide damage going around in operations.

[DeathDeathDie]

Man, if macros were in the game it'd be hilariously easy to dps. Take the Anni Spec:

 

You'd have one button that would try the abilities in top-down format:

Deadly Sabers

Rupture

Annihilate

Battering Assault

Vicious Slash

Force Scream

Assault

 

Leave Charge and Ravage on their own keybinds as well as your situationals (Slam, Interrupts, etc.).

 

But you're pretty much spamming one button the whole fight... while I sort of hope they make macros... I sort of don't...

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Vicious slash has no GCD so if we were to have macro's in game and we could do the 1 button ownage that you see warriors do in Rift you'd actually have to re-arrange your macro to be:

 

Deadly Sabers

Rupture

Annihilate

Battering Assault

Force Scream

Assault

Vicious Slash

 

Or else Force Scream and Assault would never be activated.

[Leonalis]

Which Spell did you use on whick key?

[Aurvang]

I disagree that Phantom (Force Camouflage reduces all damage by 100%) is not worthwhile to take. I certainly question the gain of Subjugation instead of Phantom, particularly in an endgame setting.

 

If the question is utility, there can certainly be debate (ie, if a group is relying on you for interrupts, Subjugation is a strong choice). However, in terms of pure DPS, being able to become immune to burst AoE damage, especially when it is predictable, is a very viable choice.

 

For those who played WoW, it reminds me of the usefulness of the Paladin's bubble, and the Shadow Priest's dispersion for negating boss mechanics and continuing to DPS and heal. For example, if a boss has a mechanic where after 10 seconds, he erupts, doing 200,000 AoE damage to all within his Line of Sight, the normal raid response would be to break the Line of Sight. A Marauder with Phantom has the choice of staying and DPSing the boss for the entire 10 seconds, and hitting Force Camouflage right at the end, becoming immune to the 1-shot kill (much like Dispersion could be used on Sindragosa, and Bubble Immunity could be used on Kael'thas, Prince Malchezzar, Mimiron, and other bosses with instagibs).

 

My 2 cents, obviously, but I strongly feel that Phantom contains a great deal of PvE utility, enough to (imo) outcompete Subjugation. Don't forget that Marauders still bring Obfuscate to fights, it just can be used slightly less without the talent.

[Takarazuka]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Vicious slash has no GCD so if we were to have macro's in game and we could do the 1 button ownage that you see warriors do in Rift you'd actually have to re-arrange your macro to be:

 

Deadly Sabers

Rupture

Annihilate

Battering Assault

Force Scream

Assault

Vicious Slash

 

Or else Force Scream and Assault would never be activated.

 

Yea.... the ability with no GCD has to be last otherwise it would go to the top. That's how MOST macro systems work, but given how oddly some things in TOR work compared to others... who knows.

[VictorLototskyy]

Why would you use Force Scream (4 rage) at Annihilation rotation when Vicious Slash has almost same damage (2 rage) and also has a chance to reduce Ruprute cd?

[Merup]

Why would you use Force Scream (4 rage) at Annihilation rotation when Vicious Slash has almost same damage (2 rage) and also has a chance to reduce Ruprute cd?

 

Yeah I was thinking the same thing...?