Selecting Need for your companion

[BrutikusIV]

Disagree with everything about the game in that regards. Companions should have never needed gear in the first place. they should have been made to match YOUR stats. Bioware had to go and over complicate things and give you a dozen companions for diferent situations and hence created this problem. If I BLAME anyone. It's the dev's.......

 

 

The put the Problem ingame. They should acquire all the angry letters,posts, and complications that their lack of insight has put forth...

 

 

Spouting out nonesense over problems that the developers have FORCED DOWN YOUR THROAT will never help calm the masses or even remotely close fix where the true problem lies. Learn to look past the squiggly lines and see the culprit hiding in the background.

[Revenaught]

Incorrect. Greed rolls have no priority system. A companion is an extension of your character, and should be treated as such. Not a single person in this game has leveled 1-50 without a companion by their side for most of it. You all need to remember that, and stop disregarding the fact that your companions are 50% of your solo'ing DPS. I shouldn't have to lose 500 Greed rolls simply because your view of in-game social rules conflicts with mine, when I have the intention of actually using the item instead of mindlessly selling it.

 

I agree. This is a new game and unique. Antiquated notions from older games do not fit the companion system in place in this game here and now.

[mattdell]

So, willing to meet the challenge I presented to you earlier? Let me know when.

 

I hold my views high, because I spend 99% of my days thinking, and using my brain to accomplish tasks, instead of whining about me me me me me. This game will be better as a whole if you would simply drop your incessant whining about things that aren't exactly a copy of WoWs social rules. It's tiring to have a debate with someone who has no idea what you're talking about, and refuses to see the point being displayed to them. I'm not denying your right to have an opinion, but the game design is 110% contrary to everything you have said, in any thread regarding this subject. The game is designed for you to have a companion with you as you are soloing. The reason companions are taken out during group play is because they ARE INFACT that good. They contribute as much, if not more, than other players, and it would make the group play ez-mode. Thats why they're not allowed in group scenarios. That doesn't mean, for one second, that I don't deserve to gear MY companion out for the lvl 50 dailies that will SURELY require it's help. The simple fact that every single player in this game can use every single piece of gear in one way or another is proof positive of my points. You cannot come up with any argument showing otherwise.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Sejia
insult

[RagnarokJC]

I hold my views high, because I spend 99% of my days thinking, and using my brain to accomplish tasks, instead of whining about me me me me me. This game will be better as a whole if you would simply drop your incessant whining about things that aren't exactly a copy of WoWs social rules. It's tiring to have a debate with someone who has no idea what you're talking about, and refuses to see the point being displayed to them. I'm not denying your right to have an opinion, but the game design is 110% contrary to everything you have said, in any thread regarding this subject. The game is designed for you to have a companion with you as you are soloing. The reason companions are taken out during group play is because they ARE INFACT that good. They contribute as much, if not more, than other players, and it would make the group play ez-mode. Thats why they're not allowed in group scenarios. That doesn't mean, for one second, that I don't deserve to gear MY companion out for the lvl 50 dailies that will SURELY require it's help.

Translation: I will not put my money where my mouth is because I know that I'll be blacklisted by 99% of the server if I do this. I need to back out as gracefully as I can.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Sejia
reply to insult

[EternalFinality]

Incorrect. Greed rolls have no priority system. A companion is an extension of your character, and should be treated as such. Not a single person in this game has leveled 1-50 without a companion by their side for most of it. You all need to remember that, and stop disregarding the fact that your companions are 50% of your solo'ing DPS. I shouldn't have to lose 500 Greed rolls simply because your view of in-game social rules conflicts with mine, when I have the intention of actually using the item instead of mindlessly selling it.

 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying you don't need it for your companion more than someone else needs it to sell. And you still have a 1/4+ chance of getting it anyways.

 

As I already said, I've leveled nearly to 50 by slapping whatever gear I randomly find on my own, or as given by quest rewards (a lot of companion gear comes from here) with no issues whatsoever, and I never NEEDED to take gear away from others.

 

And my companion doesn't do nearly close to 50% of my dps.

Edited January 6, 2012 by EternalFinality

[mattdell]

Translation: I will not put my money where my mouth is because I know that I'll be blacklisted by 99% of the server if I do this. I need to back out as gracefully as I can.

 

Starting off with insults really made your argument stronger, BTW.

 

Spouting off nonsensical percentages doesn't make your argument stronger, either. People who have the capacity for foresight agree with me. People who are not selfish, agree with me. You don't fit either of those. Kindly refrain from talking to me, since you are incapable of accepting the true nature of the game. Blacklist me if you wish, I couldn't care less. I stay away from your kind IRL, and I'll do it here too. This is not WoW. Companions are NOT an off-spec. They are an extension of your character, and need to be geared for endgame dailies. End of story.

Edited January 6, 2012 by mattdell

[EternalFinality]

People who are not selfish, agree with me.

 

Um, thinking your companion is more important than another player is selfish. By definition.

[mattdell]

Um, thinking your companion is more important than another player is selfish. By definition.

 

Re-read my posts back a few pages. I clearly stated that I disagree with rolling over another player. My points in this thread are aimed at people who completely disagree with ANY companion gearing through FP's. Its ludicrous to think that I have to roll greed against 3 people who will vendor it, when I want it for my companion.

Edited January 6, 2012 by mattdell

[RagnarokJC]

Spouting off nonsensical percentages doesn't make your argument stronger, either. People who have the capacity for foresight agree with me. People who are not selfish, agree with me. You don't fit either of those. Kindly refrain from talking to me, since you are incapable of accepting the true nature of the game. Blacklist me if you wish, I couldn't care less. I stay away from your kind IRL, and I'll do it here too. This is not WoW. Companions are NOT an off-spec. They are an extension of your character, and need to be geared for endgame dailies. End of story.

You've refused to post the server you play on or your characters' name(s). The fact that you continue to post behind the veil of anonymity tells me that you don't really feel strongly enough about this to openly display such behavior.

 

I love how you call people who agree with rolling Need for companions when other players need the item "not selfish". Do you realize how self-contradictory that is?

[brokendrum]

I love this idea...they have a roll for disassembling the item, so why not one for a companion.

 

Not quite what you may expect. I rolled a need on a chest and lost it to a Dissassmble selection so apparently Dis is same as Need.

 

The guy who did it was nice enough and I did not argue either since we had no idea that Disassemble was akin to Need..

 

Live and learn

 

To stay on the post - I feel that Greed is best option for non-character useful items - as mentioned you can always go into the flashpoint several times if you have a desire to get a specific item AND if this IS your goal then mention it right off - I am sure that if the others in the group already have that item they will go along with it.

Edited January 6, 2012 by brokendrum

[Efesell]

Don't have a problem with it, a companion is a valuable resource in the leveling process and upgrading it can be just as important as upgrading your own character. So I'm not going to flip out at someone in a group who decides to do this.

 

That being said, I'm usually going prioritize the other players, as I have other avenues of upgrading my companions gear that don't inconvenience anyone else.

[mattdell]

You've refused to post the server you play on or your characters' name(s). The fact that you continue to post behind the veil of anonymity tells me that you don't really feel strongly enough about this to openly display such behavior.

 

I love how you call people who agree with rolling Need for companions when other players need the item "not selfish". Do you realize how self-contradictory that is?

 

Personal character attacks aren't warranted here, and you're showing your age and maturity level by asking for such information. My points are valid with or without you knowing who my toon is. The fact that you can't see that shows just how immature you are. If you can't have an intelligent debate with me about this topic without trying to slander me, please stop typing. I have no patience for you.

Edited January 6, 2012 by mattdell

[RagnarokJC]

Re-read my posts back a few pages. I clearly stated that I disagree with rolling over another player. My points in this thread are aimed at people who completely disagree with ANY companion gearing through FP's. Its ludicrous to think that I have to roll greed against 3 people who will vendor it, when I want it for my companion.

So, after all the posts, it turns out that you and I agree on this.

[WrecklessMEDIC]

many are failing to comprehend the discussion at hand, reread it, it isn't about rolling need to roll need to sell it, its about rolling need for your companion

 

it isn't your place to dictate to others how they should play

 

Actually, the main issue is whether or not you should ask the group before needing on gear for your companion. If everyone in your party agrees to those terms than this whole discussion is moot.

 

The vast majority agree that this should be common practice, but there are the few people out there that don't care what anyone else thinks and will just need on anything they feel like without discussing it.

 

Those selfish players will face repercussions in the long run be it ignored or ridiculed on their server. It might not be happening right now, but you better believe there will be consequences for their actions.

 

Now I'm not telling anyone how to play the game, but you should be prepared for the backlash over the next few years. If you last that long that is.

[capnflummox]

I disagree. The problem lies with that if you needed for a companion when it was a up for my character, I would be angry. If it was not a up for me, I would be happy if the individual ask if they could take it for their companion before hitting need, just to make sure someone main character does not get shafted loot for a companion.

 

so frustrating to read this at first 8)...

 

"an upgrade"... so please "an up" would be so much better. "an upg" would be even more better!

[RagnarokJC]

Personal character attacks aren't warranted here, and you're showing your age and maturity level by asking for such information. My points are valid with or without you knowing who my toon is. The fact that you can't see that shows just how immature you are. If you can't have an intelligent debate with me about this topic without trying to slander me, please stop typing. I have no patience for you.

You have no idea what "personal character attacks" are, hence your accusation is invalid. I didn't say *you* were self-contradictory, I was talking about the statement you made.

 

I put forth my original challenge to you on the premise that the issue was rolling Need on items that other players needed for your companion. Since it's been clarified that your support is for rolling Need for companions *only* if no one else in the group needs the item, we don't really have anything to argue about.

[mattdell]

You have no idea what "personal character attacks" are, hence your accusation is invalid. I didn't say *you* were self-contradictory, I was talking about the statement you made.

 

I put forth my original challenge to you on the premise that the issue was rolling Need on items that other players needed for your companion. Since it's been clarified that your support is for rolling Need for companions *only* if no one else in the group needs the item, we don't really have anything to argue about.

 

I have a great knowledge of what personal character attacks are. One must only read the WoW forums to understand exactly what they are.

 

It is when people use your toons advancement levels, gearing, and other statistics to judge the validity of your statements. That is the definition. By asking for my toon and server, you were attempting to discredit my statements via my characters progression. It's childish and unwarranted in this game. Does my gearing choices and theorycrafting of my own personal character have anything to do with this debate? No? Then why bring it up?

 

Glad we agree.

Edited January 6, 2012 by mattdell

[RagnarokJC]

It is when people use your toons advancement levels, gearing, and other statistics to judge the validity of your statements. That is the definition. By asking for my toon and server, you were attempting to discredit my statements via my characters progression. It's childish and unwarranted in this game.

To clarify: my challenge to that other guy was simply to see if he was willing to man up and apply his beliefs on this issue in-game openly. He supports the idea of rolling Need on items for one's companion *over* players who need the item rather than after it's confirmed that all players didn't need it. The idea was to get that guy to see how such behavior would be seen by others in a game that has a social structure. It's not "childish" or "unwarranted" to try to teach someone how the real world works.

[SingleCoilPickup]

To clarify: my challenge to that other guy was simply to see if he was willing to man up and apply his beliefs on this issue in-game openly. He supports the idea of rolling Need on items for one's companion *over* players who need the item rather than after it's confirmed that all players didn't need it. The idea was to get that guy to see how such behavior would be seen by others in a game that has a social structure. It's not "childish" or "unwarranted" to try to teach someone how the real world works.

 

Dude, you've got me rollin' over here. I'm glad to see I've occupied this much of your evening. I hope you didn't have to empty your mouth foam cup too many times.

 

I'm not sharing my info with you because I don't need to get trolled by someone like you in game. As I've said before, I'm not at all concerned what you think or your opinion of my play style. I have yet to have anyone in game say anything about it, and I'm reasonably certain if I ever do they're going to be very few and very far between.

[MJHoyle]

Needing for your companions over a player needing it for himself is pure disrespect. If nobody else is needing it then ask the party if you can have it for your companion. If you're at a level where you can solo flashpoints then all you need to do is get a single item that has the right proficiency for your companion and then remodify it with mods that can be crafted or bought with commendations. Commendations aren't hard to find anymore, infact I've noticed a significant increase in the number of commendations that drop from mobs that some of my later characters have more commendations than they need. If you not got enough of those then ask a crafter, they need to make money from their professions somehow. Edited January 6, 2012 by MJHoyle

[Easih]

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion? NO

 

 

It is as simple as this. The roll system is there for a reason. To roll randomly for items. Even if you hit "Need" it does not guarantee you will get it if someone else rolls need also. If that does not satisfy them then it is also prudent to mention that the companion is technically "YOU" so yes you are rolling "Need" for yourself.

 

 

 

Raiding and grouping contains an element of give-and-take. You put in your skills and time, and you get out a reward. The loot you get from a flashpoint is your reward for contributing your abilities and skills. Your companion did not help to complete the flashpoint, therefore your companion should not share in the spoils of the flashpoint over another player who did help complete it, and by doing so helped everyone get the rewards of the flashpoint, whatever those might be.

 

 

All I can say is this, again you are not understanding that the companion is you. It belongs to you it play for you, with you and helps you. It is there to complete missions and fill a void when an extra group member is needed. The question is not did it help with the flashpoint the question is did "I" help with the flashpoint? If you answer yes you helped with the flashpoint then you are entitled to whatever you want to roll on.

 

My last point I will make is this. Not everyone needs everything in the flashpoint not even those needing for a companion. I myself pass a high number of times if I see that it is something that neither myself or my primary companion can use. I most of the time roll greed for my companion stuff unless it will end up being a really good piece.

[WrecklessMEDIC]

Dude, you've got me rollin' over here. I'm glad to see I've occupied this much of your evening. I hope you didn't have to empty your mouth foam cup too many times.

 

I'm not sharing my info with you because I don't need to get trolled by someone like you in game. As I've said before, I'm not at all concerned what you think or your opinion of my play style. I have yet to have anyone in game say anything about it, and I'm reasonably certain if I ever do they're going to be very few and very far between.

 

Trust me, if you keep needing on gear for your companions without discussing it with your party first, you will get plenty of people pissed at you. If that's the way you want to play then go ahead. But it really makes you look bad even if you say you don't care.

[EternalFinality]

It is as simple as this. The roll system is there for a reason. To roll randomly for items. Even if you hit "Need" it does not guarantee you will get it if someone else rolls need also. If that does not satisfy them then it is also prudent to mention that the companion is technically "YOU" so yes you are rolling "Need" for yourself.

 

All I can say is this, again you are not understanding that the companion is you. It belongs to you it play for you, with you and helps you. It is there to complete missions and fill a void when an extra group member is needed. The question is not did it help with the flashpoint the question is did "I" help with the flashpoint? If you answer yes you helped with the flashpoint then you are entitled to whatever you want to roll on.

 

My last point I will make is this. Not everyone needs everything in the flashpoint not even those needing for a companion. I myself pass a high number of times if I see that it is something that neither myself or my primary companion can use. I most of the time roll greed for my companion stuff unless it will end up being a really good piece.

 

So why is there even a need or a greed then? By your argument, rolling need because I need credits is completely justified because I need them to send my companions on missions to get materials to craft better items for myself. So I'm really rolling Need for myself. Or because I need the gear for my alt - who is also owned by me - I'm also rolling need for myself.

 

Pure nonsense of course.

 

FACT: Your companion's gear is not as important as the gear on your main character.

 

FACT: Your companion is not as important as other players.

[Eldren]

Here's the deal. Here's the way you can readily identify someone who's actually being greedy and rolling to vendor everything vs. someone who might be rolling to outfit their companions.

 

Say you're in a group with a Bounty Hunter who's Light Side IV. A lightsaber drops. They roll. Okay, fine, they might need to outfit a lightsaber-wielding companion.

 

But wait! That lightsaber clearly indicates on its text that it requires Sith Warrior and Dark Side IV! At that point, you know they aren't planning to outfit a companion with it. Companions have classes, and they don't have alignments. At that point, that Bounty Hunter is clearly rolling because they somehow feel their need for a couple hundred credits outweighs the need of the Sith Marauder in the party who's looking to upgrade their lightsaber. Such an individual should be booted from the party.

 

Let's say you replace them with another Bounty Hunter. Later on in the instance, a blaster pistol drops. It would be an upgrade for the Bounty Hunter. It would also be an upgrade for Vette, the Sith Warrior companion who makes heavy use of blaster pistols. That Sith Warrior decides to roll Need on it. For argument's sake we'll assume they're very polite, and they ask first, and two of the other party members say "Sure", while the Bounty Hunter says "No, that's an upgrade for me." Going with majority, the Sith Warrior rolls Need on the pistol. The pistol's only listed requirement is, say, Level 35. It doesn't list a class or alignment requirement.

 

Let's say the Sith Warrior wins the roll. The Bounty Hunter is ticked they lost out. But they had an equal chance of getting the item as the Sith Warrior did, but the Warrior's RNG was just better that time. They happily open up their crew window, equip the pistol on Vette, and prepare to go their merry way in the Flashpoint.

 

In the former scenario, you've got a blatant, obvious jerk. In the latter you've got an individual who was polite, but engaged in behavior that some players still find very distasteful, while others are fine with it because the player asked first, and still others would have been fine even if the SW hadn't asked.

 

The optimal situation in The Old Republic, given the existence of companion characters whose presence is assumed in the difficulty curve of questing, is to remove Need Before Greed, as people are no longer looking to outfit just their character, but also a secondary "pet" character who accompanies them, and requires level-appropriate output (meaning they have to have fairly regular upgrades to their gear just like the primary character does).

 

The reality of this arrangement, since every class in the game gets enough companions to eventually cover every role in a party (even if they can't fill them all at the same time), is that people can thus rightly claim they need everything that drops that doesn't require a class or alignment, because it will invariably be an upgrade for at least one of their companions.

 

The practical outworking of this is that everyone starts rolling Need on everything. The honorable players will only roll Need on something that doesn't have a class/alignment requirement different from their own, while the less-scrupulous ones will roll Need on everything period, just to simplify things or solely because they figure their right to a couple hundred credits equals another player's right to a gear slot upgrade.

 

To remove this issue, I would say we do away with Need Before Greed entirely, and go with Roll/Pass. If that aforementioned lightsaber requiring Sith Warrior and Dark Side IV drops, logically the only ones who will roll on it are Sith Warriors. This said, perhaps the Bounty Hunter wants a few credits, and rolls on it as well. That's fine: the BH's chances of getting the item are 100% equal to any Sith Warriors rolling on it, because all are using RNGs that create a 1-100 integer.

 

It removes people rolling what others would consider an undue number of times.

 

Another solution that would allow Need Before Greed to remain, is to just tag all Flashpoint and Operation drops with class and/or alignment requirements. At that point, the Imperial Agent rolling on the Light Side V Jedi Knight lightsaber is obviously not going to a) use it or b) equip a companion with it. They're rolling because they intend to sell it. At that point, few would complain if the player were kicked from the group.

 

But until we have either of those options, you're all going to have to deal with a simple reality: need for equipment in this game far exceeds need for equipment in other MMOs, because each player is equipping up to 6 characters (though more realistically only 2-3, as most aren't going to keep all 5 of their companions, particularly the droid on their ship, in level-appropriate gear; they're going to equip the companion(s) they use most often).

 

The existence of companions skews things. This isn't about arguments of whether a companion "requires" level-appropriate upgrades, or whether they can make do with quest rewards, world drops and commendation gear. Strip all that away, and deal with the core reality: companions require upgrades.

 

Every single player who contributes to a group has the right, equal to every other player in that group, to stake a claim to a piece of gear they're going to use. It doesn't matter past that consideration whether "use" means it's going in one of theirs lots or one belonging to one of their companions. Either way, the player is using the gear.

 

Accept that things don't function like they do in WoW solely because of the existence of companions. Even if they aren't in the Flashpoint or Operation with you, there are still quests to be run at 50th in the form of dailies, Bonus Series quests on other worlds, and Ilum (which many people are at 50th before traveling to). At that point, they require appropriate output from their companions, which means they require gear. That might be orange gear with level 49 mods, it might be quest rewards, it might be world drops, it might be purchases from the GTN, or it might be drops they won in a Flashpoint.

 

The point remains that companions require gear all the way to 50th level. No player should intentionally limit their potential for getting gear just because someone's upset at having lost a loot roll. Everyone would like to stack the odds in their favor for winning loot rolls, but it defeats the purpose of a loot roll to begin with, which is to give each player an equal shot at gear.

 

The game doesn't care what the winning player does with the gear. Other players have no right to tell another player what they can and can't do with their gear, or with their characters.

 

Out of politeness, ask. There's nothing wrong with that, and it encourages communication in group content when many people are coming in from another MMO where no one says a thing once a PUG is formed, and just zergs content for badges and gold.

 

But in that group, if an item drops that you realize is a meaningful upgrade for a companion, you have to decide on the spot whether you're going to roll for it or not. Ask to be polite, but don't be afraid to roll. For all the fears of getting a bad reputation on your server for "ninjaing" loot, the reality is you're more likely to wipe out that bad reputation, or even gain a good reputation, for also being the considerate player who at least asked before rolling.

 

Every single one of us is in group content to get upgrades and see the content. We aren't there to help other people get gear. We're there to help other people to the extent of downing a boss, but when the loot comes up, we're all there to get that loot if it's an upgrade for us.

 

If you really believe you're there to intentionally help someone else gain loot, more power to you. I think you're deluding yourself as to the motivations of your fellow party members. PUGs don't operate like guild or friend runs. You shouldn't assume they do.

[WrecklessMEDIC]

So why is there even a need or a greed then? By your argument, rolling need because I need credits is completely justified because I need them to send my companions on missions to get materials to craft better items for myself. So I'm really rolling Need for myself. Or because I need the gear for my alt - who is also owned by me - I'm also rolling need for myself.

 

Pure nonsense of course.

 

FACT: Your companion's gear is not as important as the gear on your main character.

 

FACT: Your companion is not as important as other players.

 

Agreed. This current system will go one of two ways. Either:

 

A) Selfish players become socially responsible and ask their fellow party members if anyone minds needing for companion gear.

 

or

 

B) Every single player starts needing on every piece of gear that drops from now on.

 

I'm hoping for option A but I'm worried that the masses will choose B so they stop getting screwed over.