Selecting Need for your companion

[RycheMykola]

I am not sure how many people are on one server but if I get blacklisted by you, I will try not to cry. There are many other people to group with. On top of that, I don't want to group with people who don't know how to use their companions correctly.

Seeing as how your companion isn't in a 4 person flashpoint, whats the correct way to use them then?

 

See, you get blacklisted by me..................then by my whole guild. Then, when you run with another group and do the same, they blacklist you also.................and so on......... Then, when you get a reputation on your server for need rolling for your companion, when you are looking for a group in the /1 channel, people will be responding, "do not group with this person, ninja looter/companion need roller".

 

I'm good enough at playing this game, I would still be extremely effective with a naked companion for solo play.

[Eldren]

Seeing as how your companion isn't in a 4 person flashpoint, whats the correct way to use them then?

 

See, you get blacklisted by me..................then by my whole guild. Then, when you run with another group and do the same, they blacklist you also.................and so on......... Then, when you get a reputation on your server for need rolling for your companion, when you are looking for a group in the /1 channel, people will be responding, "do not group with this person, ninja looter/companion need roller".

 

I'm good enough at playing this game, I would still be extremely effective with a naked companion for solo play.

 

Ahhh, yes, I figured it was only a matter of time before the e-peen stroking began...

[RycheMykola]

Think about it? Well I am in the FP working to get better gear. Me and my companion are like 1 so if I need for me or my companion and someone else needs for what ever, I win the roll than so be it. It is for me in the game, hence the word NEED. If I (or my companion) doen't NEED it then I roll greed. This game is different because WE use our companions to level. What do you not get about that?

So if I need roll to vendor the item to buy better gear for my companion, this is ok then to.

 

/sarcasm

[Malachy]

This argument came up yesterday when I brought up a scenario about me rolling need for my companions. The people in the chat say that we are Sith. We are here to be bad. So therefore do anything possible to be bad. Stealing quest items, mobs, etc is okay. There is no etiquette and that it does not matter.

 

I brought up the point that if it is okay to do all those, because we are Sith, then it's okay to need roll for companions right? They said it's not the same. They said I would get reported or banned for doing this. Their logic is that we are Sith, the baddest of the bad. It doesn't matter how big of a jerk or a-hole we are.

 

So that should extend to FP's too right? Apparently they thought that etiquette should exist for FP's but not solo play. That's a fallacy right there because it does not fit into their logic that we are Sith, we are the bad guys, we do bad things to other players.

 

Care to explain why they gave light side choices to sith players, then? If they're all supposed to be like what you say?

[Eldren]

So if I need roll to vendor the item to buy better gear for my companion, this is ok then to.

 

/sarcasm

 

Absolutely. If you Need it, you Need it. It isn't other players' business what your motivations are. You owe them nothing. You're playing the game, and you're cooperating with them to have a shot at gear. You aren't cooperating with them in the distribution of the gear.

[evil-bob]

There's nothing preventing you from always rolling need even if neither you nor your companions are upgraded by the gear.

 

But we all know it's wrong. Right and wrong do exist even if there is no "rule" in the code of the game enforcing it.

But that's my point: there is no "right" or "wrong" way to handle the situation, there is only programmatically possible or impossible. Everything else is a social construct.

 

The entire concept of "need" and "greed" is simply a shortcut for the players; it's a tool the developers added that can be used at your own discretion to indicate level of interest in a loot drop. It's not required. You can choose to assign meaning to it, or ignore it altogether. There is nothing stopping you from rolling need on every item - that is true. And if everyone in the party agrees that they will all roll need on every item, that is perfectly socially acceptable as well. In this case, the "wrong" answer is also "right" because the implied social contract between group members was amended.

 

It's interesting on many levels, but I think it's a particularly confusing issue because of the crossover from WoW (which is apparently a vast majority of the TOR playerbase). In WoW, the "need before greed" concept is enforced more strictly - it is impossible, for example, to roll need on an item if you cannot use it. In this case the program has created a more detailed set of rules which more closely fit what some people believe is socially acceptable. TOR does not do this, and thus some are confused when the rules are not applied in the way they have come to believe they should be. The water is additionally muddied when you add the fact that people have companions which typically require loot that is different than the character they are currently playing. A new set of complex social rules is being developed, but the programmatic rules are actually simpler.

 

 

In any case, I will repeat my earlier sentiment that the above poster seems to have ignored: when in doubt, check with your group. Several people have advocated that in this thread and it's the only advice that is actually useful in every situation.

[Kourage]

Companions are not an extension of your character. If they were, you'd be bringing them with you every time you ran a flashpoint or Warzone.

[Malachy]

Apparently you missed my post.

 

I'll bet you anything you "miss" my question and never respond to it.

[Airinya]

I am not sure how many people are on one server but if I get blacklisted by you, I will try not to cry. There are many other people to group with. On top of that, I don't want to group with people who don't know how to use their companions correctly.

 

Your practice is inconsiderate. I suggest when you join groups you say, upfront, that you're going to be rolling on gear for your companion. My guess would be that you're going to be removed from the group before the run even starts. This should tell you something about how "appropriate" it is to roll on stuff for your companion.

[RagnarokJC]

And you're correct, I would not.

 

This is exactly as far as the thought process goes with me and loot:

 

1. I see loot.

2. I see the stats are significantly better than mine and/or my primary companion (mainly Khem Val, I don't care about Andronikas).

3. I roll Need.

4. Some other dude rolls Need.

5. Some other dude wins.

6. I think to myself "Damn, too bad, I wanted that one. I'll have to try again next time."

7. I go on with my life.

8. I never think about losing that particular piece of loot again ever in my life because it's so insignificant that it's not worth getting upset about.

Still here, Mr. "I don't care what other people think."? BTW, funny of you to assume that A) you were taking up a lot of my time (I was at work last night and am back at work now) and B) it took me any real effort to counter your asinine argument.

 

Do what you like, but when others do what *they* like in blacklisting you and making you a pariah on the server, realize that you've only got yourself to blame.

 

Also: still waiting to see your server and character info. Put your money where your mouth is.

Edited January 6, 2012 by RagnarokJC

[Demonix]

I disagree. The problem lies with that if you needed for a companion when it was a up for my character, I would be angry. If it was not a up for me, I would be happy if the individual ask if they could take it for their companion before hitting need, just to make sure someone main character does not get shafted loot for a companion.

 

I agree with this, if a player needs the upgrade for himself it should go to him, real players before companion, if no one needs it then by all means it is for your companion.

[EternalFinality]

Absolutely. If you Need it, you Need it. It isn't other players' business what your motivations are. You owe them nothing. You're playing the game, and you're cooperating with them to have a shot at gear. You aren't cooperating with them in the distribution of the gear.

 

Then everything needs everything and greed is meaningless.

 

You know your definition of need is flawed. You know it.

 

I truly hope you aren't on my server.

[RagnarokJC]

Here are some simple steps to avoid being labeled a ninja if you intend to roll Need on items for your companion:

 

1. Ask the group if it's OK to roll Need on items for your companion.

2. If the answer is "No.", then ask if it's ok to roll Need on items for your companion *if* no one else needs the item.

3. If the answer is still "No.", respect their wishes and only roll Greed if you yourself cannot use the item in question.

4. If the answer to #1 is "Yes.", then you're happy.

5. If the answer to #2 is "Yes.", then you have at least some chance to get something your companion can use.

 

The whole key to the steps above is *communication*. If your idea is to simply roll Need without telling anyone, you are not likely to become a popular player on your server. This post can also apply to RL situations.

[zandadoum]

Ahhh, yes, I figured it was only a matter of time before the e-peen stroking began...

 

i'd rather party with an e-peener, coz it means he will do his best to show his e-peen than party with a ninja looter.

[Solemnone]

I say roll on whatever you want. You might need money for example the item can bring you. People just feel entitled these days. Used to be Id roll greed but since everyone hits need on everything thats what I do also. I have yet to find anyone who is upset over that they all roll need too.

 

Your entire statement is the very definition of GREED; wow, it is a shame there isn't an option in the game to announce that you don't need an item as an upgrade for your character, but could use the money it could bring you. Oh wait...

 

 

But the next time a purple helm drops that would be a major upgrade for you, and then someone out-rolls you and hands it over to Qyzen, I don't want to hear you whining, just deffer to your previous statement.

[daemian]

I don't have a problem with it. The way the system works, if two people decide they need it, they roll for it, and both still have a chance of getting it. I'm ok with that, I don't care 'why' they need it.

[EternalFinality]

But that's my point: there is no "right" or "wrong" way to handle the situation, there is only programmatically possible or impossible. Everything else is a social construct.

 

Yes. Right and wrong are social constructs. Thus there is a right and wrong way to handle the situation - but said morality is relative - it might depend on who is partying with you. That's why you should discuss this with them.

 

But there is also a code of conduct you should follow in the general case. And that is to not roll Need for companion gear.

[EternalFinality]

I don't have a problem with it. The way the system works, if two people decide they need it, they roll for it, and both still have a chance of getting it. I'm ok with that, I don't care 'why' they need it.

 

So you're fine with people who "Need" every item because they need credits? Of course you aren't, no matter how much you try and claim you "don't care."

[scfs]

your companion did not even been there if you were doing a 4man heroic or flashpoint

 

rolling for something that didn't help in that particular run, is like rolling for an alt char of yours or rolling just for the sake of vendoring for credits...

 

those rolls have a name: GREED ROLL

 

end of story.

 

Its not a greed roll though, since you need that item for your current character for levelling.

[daemian]

So you're fine with people who "Need" every item because they need credits? Of course you aren't, no matter how much you try and claim you "don't care."

 

I really don't. If we both roll 'need' one of us will get it. You can't get everything you want all the time. I probably wouldn't play very much with someone who did that all the time just for the credits because they're obviously a jerk. But if they're legitimately rolling for their companion? Oh well.

Edited January 6, 2012 by daemian

[Lostpenguins]

Think about it? Well I am in the FP working to get better gear. Me and my companion are like 1 so if I need for me or my companion and someone else needs for what ever, I win the roll than so be it. It is for me in the game, hence the word NEED. If I (or my companion) doen't NEED it then I roll greed. This game is different because WE use our companions to level. What do you not get about that?

 

1) "are like" is not the same as "is".

2) Your definition of "need" would justify the thing that I mentioned where someone is rolling on their "leveling" spec which is not what they're actually doing in a flashpoint and taking the item of that person in the group (i.e. me taking a heal piece of the actual healer in the group because I use my healing while leveling). If that's the case, then it's just as much "need" to take an item to sell for credits so that I can buy upgrades for myself or my companion from vendors and/or the GTN to help me level. It's also just as much as a "need" to take an item that will benefit my guildie who isn't in the FP because I level with him/her. Gearing up my guildie helps me to level faster.

 

The point is you have to know where the line is drawn when it comes to your wants over mine. That line stops when you take gear my guy can use for someone and something wasn't even there. Regardless of how closely you feel attached to your companion, the end factor is that your companion is not your toon. You cannot control the toon's name, their sex, how they respond... nothing. They are classified as your companion. They are a part of "Team Pseaton", but they are Pseaton themselves...

[Lostpenguins]

Absolutely. If you Need it, you Need it. It isn't other players' business what your motivations are. You owe them nothing. You're playing the game, and you're cooperating with them to have a shot at gear. You aren't cooperating with them in the distribution of the gear.

 

Sorry if you've never played an MMO before, but you just summed up what it is to be a ninja looter and define what most veteran MMO'ers would describe as selfish behavior. I'm sorry that you don't understand these policies and behaviors in the social context of MMO's, but you'll learn eventually. Whether it's before or after you've been labeled as a ninja looter and ostracized by the community is entirely up to you...

[RycheMykola]

The people that are saying it is ok to need roll on everything and/or need for companions are going to be the same ones posting threads QQing saying its impossible to find groups to do flashpoints/operations with 2 or 3 months from now.

 

This is the reason I stopped doing PUG's in WOW.

 

We would simply remove you from the group if someone need rolled for there companion over a player (if they asked to need roll and no one objected, then no issue with that).

[evil-bob]

Yes. Right and wrong are social constructs. Thus there is a right and wrong way to handle the situation - but said morality is relative - it might depend on who is partying with you. That's why you should discuss this with them.

 

But there is also a code of conduct you should follow in the general case. And that is to not roll Need for companion gear.

I completely agree with your first paragraph and completely disagree with your second. There is no code of conduct that says you cannot roll need for companions. This entire thread is proof enough that there is no social contract implying that, either (and that it is not necessarily even intuitive). You believe that; others don't. You are not right and they are not wrong.

[Eldren]

Sorry if you've never played an MMO before, but you just summed up what it is to be a ninja looter and define what most veteran MMO'ers would describe as selfish behavior. I'm sorry that you don't understand these policies and behaviors in the social context of MMO's, but you'll learn eventually. Whether it's before or after you've been labeled as a ninja looter and ostracized by the community is entirely up to you...

 

I've been playing MMOs since the days of Meridian 59, on into Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, EverQuest, World of Warcraft, and flirtations with Age of Conan, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning and Rift.

 

Your definition of "ninja looter" is flawed. You aren't ninjaing loot if you're legitimately rolling Need on it because it's an upgrade. The difference is this game provides additional upgrade needs via companions, the first game of those mentioned above to do so.

 

Be careful bandying about words you don't understand or making statements you can't back up. Your betters will school you every time, as just happened here.