Selecting Need for your companion

[Kayfaei]

I ran into this the other day running through a flash point.

 

I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.

I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot.

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion?

 

I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions.

 

My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1.

 

 

I think it is wrong yes. my sith inquis uses her dps companion a lot, cause I'm a healer. and he takes care of the dps part for me. What you do is buy orange gear with commendations that you get for doing quest. my companion currently have 3 pieces of orange gear so far I think level 47. and the mods are really easy to obtain to to keep increasing their stats. But to go into a flashpoint and take it from someone who could potentially use it to better their toon is wrong ;[

[Nytak]

While personally I have no problems with people rolling for companion loot, nor would I have a problem rolling on gear for my companion, you need to realize that not everybody is going to share that point of view.

 

Gear from mid-level flashpoints is pretty temporary anyway, it'll last you what? 5 levels? So personally, I don't care. If I lose a roll on a cool piece of armor to someone who wants it for a companion, big whoop, a few days and levels later I will have something better.

 

Ideally, what people should be doing is simply laying a few ground rules when starting a run.

 

A little discussion ahead of time can save a lot of complaining and headaches.

 

And what's this 90% of the time? If I'm out solo, my companion is ALWAYS with me.

[OSUNightfall]

While personally I have no problems with people rolling for companion loot, nor would I have a problem rolling on gear for my companion, you need to realize that not everybody is going to share that point of view.

 

Gear from mid-level flashpoints is pretty temporary anyway, it'll last you what? 5 levels? So personally, I don't care. If I lose a roll on a cool piece of armor to someone who wants it for a companion, big whoop, a few days and levels later I will have something better.

 

Ideally, what people should be doing is simply laying a few ground rules when starting a run.

 

A little discussion ahead of time can save a lot of complaining and headaches.

 

And what's this 90% of the time? If I'm out solo, my companion is ALWAYS with me.

 

It's true, if you follow this view, the best course is to find a group of players that think similarly. If the group agrees, any rule you come up with is fine. However, I'm betting you'll get tired of practically never getting any gear you need whatsoever in such a group. In a group where everyone needs on everything, the chances of actually getting gear you can use become astronomically small, to the point of having to run an instance 20 times or more to get one piece of gear you need (depending on drop rates.)

 

A useful thought exercise is usually to take a theoretical scenario to extremes. In a group where everyone needs on everything, gear progression becomes practically impossible. In a group where you need on what you need, gear progression becomes quick and bearable. Which system is likely superior?

 

This is why I run my own groups, to filter out players who let greed overcome their better instincts.

Edited January 5, 2012 by OSUNightfall

[kottonmouth]

So you think gearing your NPC is more important than the need of the ACTUAL player who helped you complete the dungeon? I hope he spammed chat and you have trouble finding groups.

[CharagonIGN]

I ran into this the other day running through a flash point.

 

I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.

I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot.

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion?

 

I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions.

 

My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1.

 

Was your companion in the group when the item dropped?

 

No?

 

Then yes, you were wrong.

[Shai-Huluud]

good manners are really easy to do and they tend to get you respect whereas bad manners get you no respect and takes probably more effort in the long run.

 

if you need for the character you are playing then you NEED

 

if you want to NEED for a companion then just ask people in your group if any of them mind you NEEDing for a companion even if your fellow groupers have already all clicked GREED it will serve you in the long run to be polite and ask!

 

 

unless they actually NEED it they will almost certainly always say "sure"

 

 

the only time a fellow party member said anything remotely like a "no" when asked this question was because he had a companion that also technically NEEDed the item.

 

 

seriously there is no excuse for bad manners expecially when its totally unnecesary.

[Nytak]

It's true, if you follow this view, the best course is to find a group of players that think similarly. If the group agrees, any rule you come up with is fine. However, I'm betting you'll get tired of practically never getting any gear you need whatsoever in such a group. In a group where everyone needs on everything, the chances of actually getting gear you can use become astronomically small, to the point of having to run an instance 20 times or more to get one piece of gear you need (depending on drop rates.)

 

A useful thought exercise is usually to take a theoretical scenario to extremes. In a group where everyone needs on everything, gear progression becomes practically impossible. In a group where you need on what you need, gear progression becomes quick and bearable. Which system is likely superior?

 

This is why I run my own groups, to filter out players who let greed overcome their better instincts.

 

I have trouble seeing how laying down ground rules for rolling on loot prior to starting a flashpoint would reduce one's chance of getting gear to 'astronomically small'...

 

Besides, what is end game? Running operations 20 times or more to get the tokens you need for the gear you want.

 

Again, the main point I was making is: Talk to the group and see what everybody decides. Simple solution, then it isn't even a problem that warrants posting on forums about.

[Nytak]

So here's another take on the situation:

 

What do you do when you're in an flashpoint and a droid core drops??

 

Does everybody pass??

[Propanelgen]

Geez its just pixels on your computerscreen.

Getting upset over what someone roll is only making yourself look like a tool.

[profaneascension]

There was another identical thread earlier today about the same thing, and to my dismay it was filled with people who thought it was fine for them to roll Need on items for their companions without forewarning.

 

I've been playing MMOs for more than a decade, and loot priority has always gone to the actual player, or players present in the group, who can use the item on the character they're playing. Never in my experience has it been okay to roll Need on an item for an alt or a friend if it is an upgrade for someone in the group. I don't know where the "I can roll Need on anything because you can't tell me what to do" mentality came from, except that it seems to be a very recent thing.

 

I'm fine with people rolling on items for their companions, as long as they ask before clicking on Need and everyone else is fine with it. I realize that companions are a new dynamic in TOR, but if they contributed nothing to the group, then they have no right to the loot. The argument that you should be able to roll on an item just because you contributed to the fight doesn't apply here, because by that logic, everyone would be able to roll on everything, which defeats the purpose of the Need or Greed system.

 

I'm a lot less stringent when it comes to Heroics because they are pretty trivial, but when you are in a Flashpoint and there are four player characters present, only those characters should be eligible for the loot, and then only if the item is an upgrade for that character. If no one present needs the item, then you may consider asking if it's okay to rolling for your companion.

[Leggomy]

Perhaps I should be clear. You're speaking of an "undeserved sense of entitlement." But you're only hurting yourself and everyone else in the group by holding this view. My previous posts explain why.

 

Let me guess: in the prisoner dilemma, you rat the other guy out, right?

 

I dont know what you mean by a prisoner dilemma but I know that in groups I start everyone can roll on whatever they want. It is the only fair way in my opinion.

[Excedrin]

No I am saying the only truely fair way it to just let everyone roll on what they wish. Its entitled people who insist they are the only ones who can use said item so they should be the only one to get it. THAT is entitlement saying you deserve it more than other people. FAIR ways to do things is just roll need on whatever you want. If you dont want it pass.

 

Needing on everything and telling others to shove it regardless of relative value is pretty much the definition of entitlement, fyi.

 

I think the TOR boards will have at least one person who will defend anything.

[KSheriff]

First off, just remember that everyone you'll ever group with (provided a cross server LFG is never implemented) is on your server.

 

Secondly, the needs of your party members actual characters (not companions), outweighs the need of your companions. It's just courteous.

 

Thirdly, when you enter a heroic/flashpoint you almost never use companions, and as such, rolling need on items someone could actively equip and use in that instance lessens the maximum potential of the group.

 

All said, I do think loot rolls need to be refined significantly. Characters should only be able to roll need on gear that matches the class AC. I'd go so far as to prevent say...snipers from rolling on willpower medium armor. There could potentially be a companion need button, but I can see that being abused. Obviously, rolling greed can be applied to everything.

[Merex]

It's definitely a problem. Bioware needs to either up loot drops to compensate, or put some restrictions in somewhere. Rolling need for your companion when another PLAYER needs that gear as a main spec upgrade is like needing for gear for an alt. It's wrong. Those players are in the instance working for gear for their character, not companions. Companions are used for nothing more than Crew Skills and farming. Crafting gear is sufficient.

[Nytak]

I've been playing MMOs for more than a decade, and loot priority has always gone to the actual player, or players present in the group, who can use the item on the character they're playing. Never in my experience has it been okay to roll Need on an item for an alt or a friend if it is an upgrade for someone in the group. I don't know where the "I can roll Need on anything because you can't tell me what to do" mentality came from, except that it seems to be a very recent thing.

 

I'll tell you where it came from: WoW's cross-server dungeon finder.

 

It was just the extra level of anonimity that ninja looters needed to roll on whatever they want. After all, when you're in a pool of thousands of people, most of which aren't even on your server, how can ninja looting possible make you look bad to your server community if they weren't even present when it happened.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Nytak

[CharagonIGN]

So here's another take on the situation:

 

What do you do when you're in an flashpoint and a droid core drops??

 

Does everybody pass??

 

You roll Greed. That's what it's there for.

[Stina]

They need for their companion because their companion is their future lover.

[OSUNightfall]

I have trouble seeing how laying down ground rules for rolling on loot prior to starting a flashpoint would reduce one's chance of getting gear to 'astronomically small'...

 

Besides, what is end game? Running operations 20 times or more to get the tokens you need for the gear you want.

 

Again, the main point I was making is: Talk to the group and see what everybody decides. Simple solution, then it isn't even a problem that warrants posting on forums about.

 

Sir, I'm agreeing with your point. But I'm saying that IF you set up a group where everyone needs on everything, your chances of getting any piece of loot you can use become vanishingly small. If a drop is normally 10% you will get it within seven tries at least half the time. If everyone is needing, divide that 10% by four, since there are now four people needing on it the 10% it drops. Now you will get it within the first twenty-eight tries or so, half the time. Would you rather run the instance seven times or twenty-eight times to get this piece of gear?

[Nytak]

You roll Greed. That's what it's there for.

 

Just playing devil's advocate. Everybody is approaching the argument from 1 side. Everybody seems to think that every TOR player out there is a seasoned MMO vet who knows what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. They also assume that every player reads the forums.

[Leggomy]

Needing on everything and telling others to shove it regardless of relative value is pretty much the definition of entitlement, fyi.

 

I think the TOR boards will have at least one person who will defend anything.

 

Other people have the same chance to get the same loot. What is the problem other than you feel entitled to the loot above everyone else. Why is it a big deal to just let everyone roll on whatever they want? Unless you are greedy and selfish you shouldnt have any issues with it at all. Everyone has an equal chance what is more fair than that?

[Leggomy]

Just playing devil's advocate. Everybody is approaching the argument from 1 side. Everybody seems to think that every TOR player out there is a seasoned MMO vet who knows what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. They also assume that every player reads the forums.

 

Another problem is everyone trying to shove down other people's throats what they consider "acceptable".

[profaneascension]

I'll tell you where it came from: WoW's cross-server dungeon finder.

 

It was just the extra level of anonimity that ninja looters needed to roll on whatever they want. After all, when you're in a pool of thousands of people, most of which aren't even on your server, how can ninja looting possible make you look bad to your server community if they weren't even present when it happened.

 

That must be it. I quit that game before the cross-server dungeon finder system came into play, so I didn't have to deal with those types of people.

 

Anonymity does serve to embolden thieves and cowards. When your reputation is on the line, you tend to play by the rules.

[Nytak]

Sir, I'm agreeing with your point. But I'm saying that IF you set up a group where everyone needs on everything, your chances of getting any piece of loot you can use become vanishingly small. If a drop is normally 10% you will get it within seven tries at least half the time. If everyone is needing, divide that 10% by four, since there are now four people needing on it the 10% it drops. Now you will get it within the first twenty-eight tries or so, half the time. Would you rather run the instance seven times or twenty-eight times to get this piece of gear?

 

OK yeah, if everybody agrees to all need for anything usable by you or a companion, yeah, chances are going to drop.

 

I don't think that would ever happen in a group, even though it wouldn't bother me. Like I said, I don't run mid level flashpoints for gear, I run them to figure out how my characters abilities play out in group scenarios to prep myself for when I will care about the gear; when I'm clearing Operations.

 

Now as far as the cool modable gear that some flashpoints drop... well If I want it and lose out on it while leveling, I can always go back and solo farm it later for the Modable.

 

My point of view is probably a lot more laid back than most.. At this point in my life there are things worth getting upset over and things that aren't. A virtual item in a fictional universe that exists as a series of 1's and 0's on computers, not something to get my blood pressure up over.

[Blackavaar]

Well, personally I always start a group by saying, "Okay, for anyone not aware, blue and orange items are Bind on Pick-up in here. So, please don't roll Need for items that are better suited for someone else (ie. Juggernaut Gear is for Juggernauts). If you would like something for your companion and no one else Needs it then just let us know." This usually is met with a round of agreements and we're off on our way.

 

If this caveat is not agreed to by someone, that someone is booted from the group and another member is found. If anyone agrees and then goes ahead and Needs on everything anyway then again that person is booted and another member is found and the mission restarted. Usually that does not need to be done however.

 

[Nytak]

Another problem is everyone trying to shove down other people's throats what they consider "acceptable".

 

That's why I like to chat at the beginning of a flash point, make sure everybody is on the same page and happy with it. Then when something goes wrong, the solution is simple, remove/replace the offending individual (as they obviously misled the group when the agreed to the loot rules).

 

And FYI, I always run need for player, greed for alt/companion/sale, pass if you wanna.