Crit vs Power for a Sentinel

[AeetesSixFive]

Accuracy over 100% reduces the target's defense. In other words you will do damage that bypasses their armor.

 

First off this is not the tooltip, it reduces your chance to be parried and reflected, which does NOT apply to PvE. I play with 102% acc on my sent and my offhand misses sometimes. To have offhand hits maxed is really high hit % I don't recall the number.

Edited January 6, 2012 by AeetesSixFive

[ErisktheRed]

Alacrity does not effect master strike.

It effects stasis and only stasis. Also, asks the question why you would want your stun to last shorter.

 

 

 

Surge is best up to about 150-200 surge rating. At which point the diminishing returns on rating gain, really hurts it. Crit and power will be bigger gains point for point.

Crit is pretty valuable all around, until a bout 300-400 crit rating, where its diminishing returns becomes significant.

Thus, above the 300 crit, and 150 surge rating values, power now becomes more valuable.

Prior to those, surge/crit are good.

 

Value of +acc. Can not tell without a combat log.

 

This is good tho not confirmed these diminishing return numbers. Also your spec choice does matter. I like surge as Watchman since I can get 100% crits with zen, more crit damage makes sense. I think accuracy is more vital for PVP than PVE but still obviously important either way... but it also takes a lot.

 

I like to keep my crit at 20% around with stats. Arguably Watchman with 100% crit in juyo may do without much Crit but I still like it as I find despite getting zen quickly it doesn't last long. Obviously Power is there 24/7 no chance needed. But you need a bit to be really effective.

[Zackath]

Alacrity does not effect master strike.

It effects stasis and only stasis. Also, asks the question why you would want your stun to last shorter.

 

 

 

Surge is best up to about 150-200 surge rating. At which point the diminishing returns on rating gain, really hurts it. Crit and power will be bigger gains point for point.

Crit is pretty valuable all around, until a bout 300-400 crit rating, where its diminishing returns becomes significant.

Thus, above the 300 crit, and 150 surge rating values, power now becomes more valuable.

Prior to those, surge/crit are good.

 

Value of +acc. Can not tell without a combat log.

 

Well thanks for clarifying that out for me I wasn't sure if Master strike would be affected since it is a channeling. Alacrity is therefore a NO GO.

 

As for surge before crit I'm still very doubtfull has to if it's good or not because of the fact that to be able to use the full effect of the surge rating stat you actually need a CRIT which chance to happen, has we all know is based on the crit rating stat therefore it make the crit stat a more important stat prior to surge rating. Basically, if you don't crit, what's the point of surge rating. Of course there is Zen to counter that lack of crit but still basing dps on luck isnt what is always the best thing to do. I'd go like I said in my previous post for a more sure way to dish out decent amount of damage without relying on RNG.

 

STR>ACC>POWER>CRIT>SURGE

 

Switch power to last if the stat doesnt scale too well (like I said before I still don't know how they scale)

[Apocalypse-]

Surge is best up to about 150-200 surge rating. At which point the diminishing returns on rating gain, really hurts it. Crit and power will be bigger gains point for point.

Crit is pretty valuable all around, until a bout 300-400 crit rating, where its diminishing returns becomes significant.

Thus, above the 300 crit, and 150 surge rating values, power now becomes more valuable.

Prior to those, surge/crit are good.

 

Value of +acc. Can not tell without a combat log.

 

Thank you for typing this, saved me the time. On watchman at least, offhand damage isn't too important, so accuracy above 100% is better spent elsewhere.

 

First off this is not the tooltip, it reduces your chance to be parried and reflected, which does NOT apply to PvE. I play with 102% acc on my sent and my offhand misses sometimes. To have offhand hits maxed is really high hit % I don't recall the number.

Offhand accuracy = 57%. You need 133% mainhand accuracy to have zero offhand miss chance. You're going to have such insane DR at that point that it's not worth it.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Thank you for typing this, saved me the time. On watchman at least, offhand damage isn't too important, so accuracy above 100% is better spent elsewhere.

 

You are assuming 100% is enough versus flashpoint and operation bosses which is unlikely. We'll probably have to look at something like 110% (which is useful in PvP as well to counter dodge).

[Apocalypse-]

You are assuming 100% is enough versus flashpoint and operation bosses which is unlikely. We'll probably have to look at something like 110% (which is useful in PvP as well to counter dodge).

 

Flashpoint bosses are level 50. Standing behind an enemy in a 30-45 degree cone behind them avoids their Dodge/Parry entirely. Why would you need more than 100% for PvE?

[RamzaBehoulve]

Flashpoint bosses are level 50. Standing behind an enemy in a 30-45 degree cone behind them avoids their Dodge/Parry entirely. Why would you need more than 100% for PvE?

 

Because devs have a tendency to increase miss chance on bosses in MMO, regardless of your position.

Edited January 7, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Apocalypse-]

Because devs have a tendency to increase miss chance on bosses in MMO, regardless of your position.

 

Which is done by increasing their level beyond the player's level, which Bioware hasn't done...

[shawnsum]

Just wanted to post something and see what you guys thought.

 

Say your playing the "Focus" tree. Your abilities make your sweep crit, wouldn't stacking Surge be the best bet there since it will increase how much you crit for?? Or am I missing something?

[AeetesSixFive]

Just wanted to post something and see what you guys thought.

 

Say your playing the "Focus" tree. Your abilities make your sweep crit, wouldn't stacking Surge be the best bet there since it will increase how much you crit for?? Or am I missing something?

 

It would, to a point I believe. Refer to MBirkhofer post, that 150-200 raiting is about all you wanna push it cause then you're just wasting points when they could be going elsewhere.

[Apocalypse-]

Just wanted to post something and see what you guys thought.

 

Say your playing the "Focus" tree. Your abilities make your sweep crit, wouldn't stacking Surge be the best bet there since it will increase how much you crit for?? Or am I missing something?

 

For focus, yes. Power/Surge is your best combo. Though Focus isn't really a valid choice for PvE content, 95% of meaningful pulls in PvE are single target.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Which is done by increasing their level beyond the player's level, which Bioware hasn't done...

 

So because Bioware did not make bosses higher than level 50, you are assuming there is no mechanic increasing the miss chance on them?

 

They can manipulate anything at anytime about a NPC at will without changing the level number.

 

While I'll fully believe a hard mode Flashpoint has no particular requirement. I find it extremely unlikely Ops will be the same way.

Edited January 7, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[MBirkhofer]

yeah, the raid boss hit % is a tall glass of "we don't know." Especially without a combatlog.

[AeetesSixFive]

So because Bioware did not make bosses higher than level 50, you are assuming there is no mechanic increasing the miss chance on them?

 

They can manipulate anything at anytime about a NPC at will without changing the level number.

 

While I'll fully believe a hard mode Flashpoint has no particular requirement. I find it extremely unlikely Ops will be the same way.

 

They COULD but with what I've been seeing it won't happen. Unless they have a short debuff or something that the bosses uses at random. Other than that I personally don't think they will.

[Apocalypse-]

So because Bioware did not make bosses higher than level 50, you are assuming there is no mechanic increasing the miss chance on them?

 

They can manipulate anything about a NPC at will without changing the level number.

 

And assuming it's there without a combat log is beneficial how? If it's there, everyone suffers from it, but since at 100% accuracy I've never seen my force kick (a mainhand attack) miss, I believe there is no additional mechanic present. For the miss chance to be there, it would need to debuff the player, as misses are calculated prior to the target's defenses being calculated. Defenses are target side, misses are attacker side.

[Zackath]

Because devs have a tendency to increase miss chance on bosses in MMO, regardless of your position.

True statement, also to answer the guy that said there was no dodge or parry from behind:

 

Well, who said there wasnt a chance for mobs to parry/dodge regardless of your position?

I believe they do dodge and parry even if you are behind them. It does happen in PVP tho with my consular friend while he's trying to backstab sometimes it can be dodged or parried.

 

This rule should and generally apply to both players and npcs.

 

Unless you prove me wrong, I still think you need enough accuracy rating to not be dodged parried or miss any attacks or reduce GREATLY the chance of those to happen.

 

It would therefore make accuracy our second best stat, then I think it's a question of which between power and crit + surge is the way to go.

[Apocalypse-]

True statement, also to answer the guy that said there was no dodge or parry from behind:

 

Well, who said there wasnt a chance for mobs to parry/dodge regardless of your position?

I believe they do dodge and parry even if you are behind them. It does happen in PVP tho with my consular friend while he's trying to backstab sometimes it can be dodged or parried.

 

This rule should and generally apply to both players and npcs.

 

Unless you prove me wrong, I still think you need enough accuracy rating to not be dodged parried or miss any attacks or reduce GREATLY the chance of those to happen.

 

It would therefore make accuracy our second best stat, then I think it's a question of which between power and crit + surge is the way to go.

 

Go through the dev tracker. Georg said something to the same extent. I'm not going to paraphrase, but the summary was that there is no P/D from behind. Next up, play a Smuggler, if you pop dodge and try to run away, you're going to get hit a lot. I can take down Warriors/Assassins that pop their Saber Ward just by standing directly behind them.

 

The cone for availability of "must be behind target" abilities is NOT the same as the "No Dodge/Parry" cone. It also appears that if someone is turning, it calculates where they're facing compared to you when the animation hits, not when the skill is triggered.

[SithCosno]

Seems to be that the majority opinion in this thread is that power > crit/surge. This was originally my thinking as a combat sentinel that after STR and hitcap i would want all of my attacks to hit harder all the time not just when they crit for more consistent DPS. However after deciding to change out all my Power mods/enhancements to crit/surge i've noticed an incredible damage increase killing mobs on Ilum. I kill everything MUCH faster with a crit/surge build than i did with a power build.

 

This is slightly disappointing if crit/surge is better because all the raid gear minus the lightsabers is accuracy/power

[peroxsigh]

Seems to be that the majority opinion in this thread is that power > crit/surge. This was originally my thinking as a combat sentinel that after STR and hitcap i would want all of my attacks to hit harder all the time not just when they crit for more consistent DPS. However after deciding to change out all my Power mods/enhancements to crit/surge i've noticed an incredible damage increase killing mobs on Ilum. I kill everything MUCH faster with a crit/surge build than i did with a power build.

 

This is slightly disappointing if crit/surge is better because all the raid gear minus the lightsabers is accuracy/power

 

I actually stated stacking crit because it was on every piece of PVP gear. It made me wonder how important crit was overall - I was pretty surprised to see the results. Without a combat log i can't really extrapolate anything for sure but I think we'd be surprised to see the sustained damage a crit gear setup will do.

[MBirkhofer]

Seems to be that the majority opinion in this thread is that power > crit/surge. This was originally my thinking as a combat sentinel that after STR and hitcap i would want all of my attacks to hit harder all the time not just when they crit for more consistent DPS. However after deciding to change out all my Power mods/enhancements to crit/surge i've noticed an incredible damage increase killing mobs on Ilum. I kill everything MUCH faster with a crit/surge build than i did with a power build.

 

This is slightly disappointing if crit/surge is better because all the raid gear minus the lightsabers is accuracy/power

 

no, we've been pretty clear on this..

 

#1 is str. it scales with itself due to giving damage and crit %. This means if 1 str is =1 dps. 2 str is 2.1dps. and so on. The more str you have, the more powerful each point of str becomes.

And, you even get the sage buff of +5% str, making str even more valuable. And the crit dimishing returns on str, is a separate diminishing return to crit rating.

#2 is surge. Up to about 150-200 surge. At which point the diminishing return on crit damage gain, starts becoming a hindrance, and the point for point gains no longer out weight other stats.

#3 is crit. Crit works just like surge. Although at a slower rate, and that is up to 300-400.

#4 is power. at low levels of crit and surge, power comes in #4. But power does not have diminishing returns. as you hit 200 surge, and 400 crit, you gain more dps per point of power then per point of crit/surge.

[Storf]

I too am having a hard time deciding on whether or not to stack mostly power or mostly crit. So, I decided to do some calculations and i thought i'd share them with you and get everybody's input. By switching some mods around, I took the stats from 2 sets of my ideal gear setup (keep in mind i don't currently have these stats, but it's what i will be working towards in the next few weeks) which ended up looking like this (Also keep in mind that I am building this around the combat tree).

 

Set 1

Strength = 1,335

Accuracy Rating = 119

Critical Rating = 287

Surge = 272

Power = 166

 

Total Accuracy = 100%

Total Critical Chance = 26.7%

Total Bonus Damage = 320.25

Total Critical Multiplier = 87.76%

 

Set 2

Strength = Same

Accuracy Rating = Same

Critical Rating = 407

Surge = Same

Power = 46

 

Total Accuracy = Same

Total Critical Chance = 31.82%

Total Bonus Damage = 268.55

Total Critical Multiplier = Same

 

So there you have it... My ideal setup. One with power and one with Crit. So my question to all of you is. What is better, having an extra +51.7 Bonus damage from my power gear, or having an extra +5.12% from the Crit Rate gear? Also, if i was ever to swtich to watchman instead of combat, would this setup still be good or should i change a few things?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Storf

[ErisktheRed]

I too am having a hard time deciding on whether or not to stack mostly power or mostly crit. So, I decided to do some calculations and i thought i'd share them with you and get everybody's input. By switching some mods around, I took the stats from 2 sets of my ideal gear setup (keep in mind i don't currently have these stats, but it's what i will be working towards in the next few weeks) which ended up looking like this (Also keep in mind that I am building this around the combat tree).

 

Set 1

Strength = 1,335

Accuracy Rating = 119

Critical Rating = 287

Surge = 272

Power = 166

 

Total Accuracy = 100%

Total Critical Chance = 26.7%

Total Bonus Damage = 320.25

Total Critical Multiplier = 87.76%

 

Set 2

Strength = Same

Accuracy Rating = Same

Critical Rating = 407

Surge = Same

Power = 46

 

Total Accuracy = Same

Total Critical Chance = 31.82%

Total Bonus Damage = 268.55

Total Critical Multiplier = Same

 

So there you have it... My ideal setup. One with power and one with Crit. So my question to all of you is. What is better, having an extra +51.7 Bonus damage from my power gear, or having an extra +5.12% from the Crit Rate gear? Also, if i was ever to swtich to watchman instead of combat, would this setup still be good or should i change a few things?

 

I think 2 sets is wise anyways. I think combat can benefit from Crit gear more, as has no passive crits like Watchman/Focus get. But I still like crit overall. Accuracy is next after Str imo as the 2nd stat. Which u have. I think stacking surge until diminishing returns is easy it doesn't take much... so the question really is Crit vs. Power, as you find most gear with accuracy or surge on either power or crit.

 

I'd personally prefer 5% chance to crit, but then 51 bonus is always there and no diminishing returns.

 

Situational - why 2 sets like this is great, and changes depending on PVE, PVP, and spec. Just test each set out, which you find suits you best and you think does you better.

[RamzaBehoulve]

I'd make 2 sets. One with power for PvE and one with crit for PvP.

[Storf]

I think 2 sets is wise anyways. I think combat can benefit from Crit gear more, as has no passive crits like Watchman/Focus get. But I still like crit overall. Accuracy is next after Str imo as the 2nd stat. Which u have. I think stacking surge until diminishing returns is easy it doesn't take much... so the question really is Crit vs. Power, as you find most gear with accuracy or surge on either power or crit.

 

I'd personally prefer 5% chance to crit, but then 51 bonus is always there and no diminishing returns.

 

Situational - why 2 sets like this is great, and changes depending on PVE, PVP, and spec. Just test each set out, which you find suits you best and you think does you better.

 

After testing out my crit set, i'd say i have to agree with you that crit seems to be the better option. I noticed a pretty nice increase in dps overall. Where I noticed it the most is with Blade Rush. When blade rush crits more often, it makes it really easy to take down enemies when you are criting for 1400-1800 with almost every strike (and thats not including the ataru strike that comes right after).

Edited January 10, 2012 by Storf

[Klaudias]

what do you think about a defense,surge-crit based gear for watchman? since watchman can pop up zen very frequently you dont really need to much crit at all , and when you pop up your zen with the surge it will be a damage party on the burning objective due to the 100% crit chance on burns.

 

And defese in think is quite good since you have your saber guard wich gives you 50% and trascendence wich gives you a 10% , that means that you can start a figth with 50% saber guard + 10% trascendence ( you burn your valorus call to get 30 centering) and + like around 10 % from your gear , you can have like 70% chance to parry any incoming atack during 10 seconds, what do you think about it?.

 

Play a guardian if you want defence...