Mercs: Unload usable while moving

[Nergrom]

So I noticed that this class, while a great damage dealer, is quite lacking in the escape category. So I thought a nice way to improve this would be to make unload usable while moving. Maybe even add a damage penalty for attacking on the move to balance it.

 

Arsenal mercs can then use their snare on the run, making the slow finally useful, while still having to rely on static casts if they want more damage and uptime.

 

Pyrotechs get one of their rail resetters, which it does with 60% chance, usable on the move.

 

thoughts?

[Xarxos]

I don't think a character with heavy armor really needs stuff to make kiting even easier. As a stationary turret I do much damage in PvE but have to cancel the ability and use weaker ones on the run, if the boss mechanic makes me behave that way. I pretty much like this concept. As for PvP the combo Jet-Knockback + Unload while kiting would be much too powerful when using against melee attackers.

 

So in PvP it's a huge boost which is not really needed, and in PvE it's a trade "damage for mobility" that doesn't suit with the merc-, or at least arsenal-concept.

[Yazule]

So I noticed that this class, while a great damage dealer, is quite lacking in the escape category. So I thought a nice way to improve this would be to make unload usable while moving. Maybe even add a damage penalty for attacking on the move to balance it.

 

Arsenal mercs can then use their snare on the run, making the slow finally useful, while still having to rely on static casts if they want more damage and uptime.

 

Pyrotechs get one of their rail resetters, which it does with 60% chance, usable on the move.

 

thoughts?

 

who wouldnt like unload while running... oh wait, yeah, everyone except BH mercs ... i wouldnt want that because i wouldnt want the nerf that would follow haha

[Nergrom]

I did mention a damage penalty when used on the move though, maybe large enough that you'd only use on the move if you need to snare asap or proc a rail shot? Maybe a 80% reduction while moving?

 

We get a tad bit more utility, but we lose quite a bit in damage to use it.

[Yazule]

80% reduction? just use quick shots

 

*edit* err rapid shots */edit*

Edited January 5, 2012 by Yazule

[Nergrom]

it would do pitiful damage, yes, but that's not the point. The point is that unload has a second effect for both arsenal and pyrotech. Being able to use these effects on the run, even at the cost of major damage, is a decision you should make in only certain situations.

 

Arsenal mercs would only use it while running if they were being chased by a melee or if the team needs an enemy slowed desperately. Any other time would be a waste of the unload.

 

Pyrotechs would, while a bit of a gamble, use this to maybe pull off another railshot before the target gets away.

 

Using rapidshot in these situations might produce the same damage, but the added effect is where it's at.

[Yazule]

it would do pitiful damage, yes, but that's not the point. The point is that unload has a second effect for both arsenal and pyrotech. Being able to use these effects on the run, even at the cost of major damage, is a decision you should make in only certain situations.

 

Arsenal mercs would only use it while running if they were being chased by a melee or if the team needs an enemy slowed desperately. Any other time would be a waste of the unload.

 

Pyrotechs would, while a bit of a gamble, use this to maybe pull off another railshot before the target gets away.

 

Using rapidshot in these situations might produce the same damage, but the added effect is where it's at.

 

i hear ya, i dont know when the proc goes off, could you stop for a sec, cast and then run, is it at the beginning of cast, end, or at each damage tick, i really dont know.

[Nergrom]

I don't know really, I think the reset is at the start of the animation, and the snare is at every tick.

 

Really should test it, but I'm too busy leveling an alt at the moment

[Sabbathius]

...is quite lacking in the escape category...

 

You mean a long-distance knockback with a 4 second 60% slow to it on 20 sec cooldown isn't good enough?

You mean a short-distance knockback with Rocket Punch on 9 sec cooldown isn't good enough?

You mean Concussive Missile incapacitate for 8 seconds on 45 sec cooldown isn't good enough? (*instant with Power Surge)

You mean Electro Dart stun for 4 seconds on 60 sec cooldown ins't good enough?

Plus the 50% slow for 2 seconds every time you Unload?

 

How many more escape tools do you need?

[Nergrom]

You mean a long-distance knockback with a 4 second 60% slow to it on 20 sec cooldown isn't good enough?

You mean a short-distance knockback with Rocket Punch on 9 sec cooldown isn't good enough?

You mean Concussive Missile incapacitate for 8 seconds on 45 sec cooldown isn't good enough? (*instant with Power Surge)

You mean Electro Dart stun for 4 seconds on 60 sec cooldown ins't good enough?

Plus the 50% slow for 2 seconds every time you Unload?

 

How many more escape tools do you need?

 

Well, considering that on my sorceror and sniper alts I can do most of this but better, with shields and cover that outweigh the armor advantage, and comparable damage to boot...

 

heavier armor doesn't take away the fact that any good melee will take down a merc, the merc can either keep fighting and die to interrupts and cc-chains or run away and die trying.

 

while most other range will die to melee in melee range (duh, they're melee) they can at least run for the hills if there are no ledges nearby to punt people off.

[Skeme]

Maybe, to make it less complicated, just add those procs to rapid shots.

 

Makes sense right?

[Albinosmurf]

Well, considering that on my sorceror and sniper alts I can do most of this but better, with shields and cover that outweigh the armor advantage, and comparable damage to boot...

 

heavier armor doesn't take away the fact that any good melee will take down a merc, the merc can either keep fighting and die to interrupts and cc-chains or run away and die trying.

 

while most other range will die to melee in melee range (duh, they're melee) they can at least run for the hills if there are no ledges nearby to punt people off.

 

I don't really see your point. If ranged should lose vs melee in melee range then where is the issue. Mercs get rocked in melee range by melee. Running away is the best option just concussion missle and ****. If you cant get some range on a melee in 8 seconds then your doing something wrong. Then after that we still have a plethora of knockbacks/slows.

[Rimbaldo]

It's obvious a few people in this thread haven't PvPed much. There's this popular opinion that Jet Boost is somehow insanely useful as is, which is kind of questionable. The only melee class I can think of that wouldn't have some kind of gap closer with a faster cooldown than talented JB would be Scoundrels/Operatives, so being able to cast Unload while moving really wouldn't make Mercenaries overpowered. Mercs have a long, long, long way to go before they could even begin to be considered overpowered compared to most of the other DPS classes at 50. Edited January 6, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[Angryorc]

Good thing an operative can't literally ravage you with his opening stun when your CC break is on cooldown.. wait they can!

 

If you bump those laser ninjas down.. they jump right back in your face.. so much for your precious knockbacks...

 

Not to mention half the time people have full resolve bar and are immune to knockbacks...

 

So NO, having most of our abilities locked to standing still with a cast time isn't enough.

 

Mostly only mercs that think higher runspeed would be nice..

Ok, so a melee is approaching and you let that unload off to get the superduperamazing long snare effect up (OR you knock them back and then let Unload rip..) and then BOOM! not only are you rooted to get the snare up, the melee also jumps right back in your face and starts anal-probing you with their sabers/knives.

 

I mean.. hello?!?! the only ensured way to get an arsenal snare up is forcing us to stand still while casting it and when it's finished.. so is the snare.

 

Anyone who doesn't say mercs are shafted in terms of mobility has clearly not launched enough rockets from their backs or played against properly geared/brained melees.

 

---

 

Yes, Unload should be usable while moving.

Yes, Rapid Shots should lower your current heat by 3-4ish per cooldown.

Yes, We need higher movement speed.

Yes, I am jealous of PT's and their grapple but due to a choice made @ level 10, being a mastermind of the Bounty-Hunter class and skills.. I can not even get a tank spec.

 

[shababaa]

instead of reducing the damage of unload while moving, how about just reducing your movement while moving? like 50% or so..

 

that way.. you will still do the full amount dmg as you did before, but you don't have to worry about your enemy catching up to you, couse you'd be running at the same speed due to the slow..

[Sinsavz]

unload would look ridiculous whilst moving.

 

something I would like is for thermal sensor override and power surge to be merged into one ability.

[Sabbathius]

Mostly only mercs that think higher runspeed would be nice..

Ok, so a melee is approaching and you let that unload off to get the superduperamazing long snare effect up (OR you knock them back and then let Unload rip..) and then BOOM! not only are you rooted to get the snare up, the melee also jumps right back in your face and starts anal-probing you with their sabers/knives.

 

Let me momentarily flip the situation and use another class as an example.

 

Replace Merc in the above with Sorc. What would you do if melee jumps on you?

 

Slow? 6 sec duration, 12 sec CD. No good.

Sprint? 3 sec duration, 30 sec CD. No good.

Knockback? Shorter distance and no snare compared to Merc. Still no good.

Whirlwind? Mercs get that one too, Concussive Missile.

Electrocute? Mercs get that one too, Electro Dart.

 

Am I missing something? Oh, the Sorcs get a bubble, which eats maybe one hit every 20 seconds. They wear light armor (about 18% reduction?) to a Merc's heavy. Mercs get the 25% damage reduction one, as well as Kolto Overload, albeit on a 2 min CD.

 

What can a Sorc do with melee in his face that Merc can't.

 

And what can a Sorc cast on the move? Let's see - Shock (6 sec CD), Affliction (no CD, 1 sec DOT), depending on spec Death Field (15 sec CD). Did I miss anything? And what can a Merc use on the move? Rapid Shots (no CD spam), Missile Blast (no CD spam, but heat-heavy, can alternate with Rapid Shots), Explosive Dart (15 sec CD), Rail Shot (15 sec CD with a DoT from Explosive Dart). If anything, you could argue Merc has too many abilities that can be done on the move.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm a noob that hasn't done enough PvP. I'm only rank 20. Across four characters, all of them in mid-30s. So what do I know.

[Nergrom]

Let me momentarily flip the situation and use another class as an example.

 

Replace Merc in the above with Sorc. What would you do if melee jumps on you?

 

Slow? 6 sec duration, 12 sec CD. No good.

Sprint? 3 sec duration, 30 sec CD. No good.

Knockback? Shorter distance and no snare compared to Merc. Still no good.

Whirlwind? Mercs get that one too, Concussive Missile.

Electrocute? Mercs get that one too, Electro Dart.

 

 

In this case it would be sprint

 

A well timed sprint can put you out of range of the melee gap closers quite easily, even better if there are los obstacles and such, and even better than that still if the target is slowed. All the while not as stationary as the merc needs to be to pull off near maximum damage.

 

what if they close the gap during sprint? Don't let them, make em waste it on the knockback and stun = run and laugh

 

A lot of melee get a skill to negate knockbacks for a few seconds, sprint will always be useful even if this skill is up or their resolve bar is full.

[ChosenoftheRaven]

My advice to you if you're being brutalized in pvp? Get into a premade. This may not be the case with you, but I've found most of the people complaining about a class needing help are fighting as a solo against other solo players or against premades, and don't understand that the game isn't balanced around one class being self-sufficient, but a group of classes supporting each other. If you are a merc being protected by a group, you can really crush people with your sustained high damage. If you go in solo, expect mixed or bad results because those other guys out there decided to group up to queue, and you didn't.

 

TL;DR: Mercs aren't any worse off than anyone else in a solo queue, everybody gets mobbed with CC sometimes.

[Hilnarox]

You mean a long-distance knockback with a 4 second 60% slow to it on 20 sec cooldown isn't good enough?

You mean a short-distance knockback with Rocket Punch on 9 sec cooldown isn't good enough?

You mean Concussive Missile incapacitate for 8 seconds on 45 sec cooldown isn't good enough? (*instant with Power Surge)

You mean Electro Dart stun for 4 seconds on 60 sec cooldown ins't good enough?

Plus the 50% slow for 2 seconds every time you Unload?

 

How many more escape tools do you need?

 

 

This this guy thinks he's clever. But he's failed to realise every single class counter that. All meele classes have a way they can closr the gay of the long range knockback.

 

The rocket punch knock back is absolutly pathetic. What a 4m knockback going to do when ur still in range of my 4m meele range moves let alive 10and ur slowed.

 

One of ur cc's has a cast time that can be losses or interrupted.

The other can be used to get out by the 2min cd

 

Unload slow might aswell not be there because it only last while ur channeling, by the time its finished they would be on top of you because ur stationary and its only a 50% slow.

 

 

Hmmmm..... All ur so called mobility moves counterd with so little effort.

 

 

Sorc has higher dmg and a more frequent slow that has more damage

You once havnt got a sorc if you think the shield only asorbs one hit.

They seem to do 10x better in war games then a lot of classes.

Might want to get ur sorc over 40 before you pass judgement.

(for the guy that said he has loads of level 30s or summin)

Edited January 7, 2012 by Hilnarox

[oceansofmars]

Further proof that only drooling bads play BHs

[Nergrom]

Further proof that only drooling bads play BHs

 

Wow, I commend you on your well thought out and argumented post. Clearly we're all just bad at playing the game and should kiss the ground your fetid feet walk on?

 

Baseless accusations and general insults are for the weak of mind, get your head out of your nether orifice and actually contribute to the conversation, or leave. Go troll a horse for all I care.

 

Back on topic:

 

Mercs are great in team play, but then again almost everybody is. But why pick the merc when the sorc has better damage, better cc and better survivability on the whole? We can outburst sorcerors, at the cost of being useless while heat cools down, that's it.

 

yes, solo performance is only a small part of the swtor pvp scene, but it's still a part. A team with a merc, that hasn't been built around keeping the merc alive, is a liability that many other comps do not have. Your sniper being focused? he can manage for a while with his CC and cover. That sorc being hunted by melee? run little sorc, run!

 

Merc in trouble? He's not on a ledge? HEAL HIM OR HE DIES.

 

Yes the results are exaggerated, a good merc can still make a getaway, and bad sorcerors go down like flies, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still easier to do the same thing as merc, as a different ranged. With the only possible exception of ledge guarding.

 

Back to the REAL TOPIC:

 

So far only a few in this thread have given any kind of constructive reasoning on my unload change. Less still have pitched in with an alternative.

 

Keep the conversation on topic please:

 

1. what do you think of the change?

2. do you have a way to improve it?

3. do you have an alternative?

 

The question is not "DO we need it?", it's "IF we need it, would this be viable?".

Edited January 8, 2012 by Nergrom

[Gadrak]

unload should be usable while moving or we should have another escape tool,knockback aoe is too situational,a jet leap would be better imho.