DrCereal Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) This is riposte to all those people complaining that you can't turn Ashara to the dark side; and also to all those people saying she's not your "true apprentice [sic]". I'm here to tell you that you're basically doing it wrong. In turning a quest last night I chose the DS option---pretty evil choice if you ask me---that gave me 100 DS points, and a whopping 109 affection with Ashara. 109 affection for a 100 DS choice. If that's not DS I don't know what is. My character also, in conversation, often refers to her as "my apprentice"; at one point saying, and I quote "you have learned much my apprentice". Edit: about Xalek, some people mention that he is your real apprentice. That is dumb. You only go get Xalek because you have to show "strength" in your fight against Darth Thanaton. And having an apprentice from the Korriban Academy is a sign of power and status. This is *the reason* you go get Xalek. While others may belittle Ashara as not a true "sith apprentice" (Zash, for example), you have the choice, in conversation, of having your character say that she is your "true apprentice". Since, you being the "lord" (and later Darth), it's your opinion that counts here. I suppose you also have the choice to push Ashara aside, if you do so that's your option (I didn't pursue this dialog course, so I don't know). But from my characters POV, Ashara is his apprentice, regardless of Xalek. People having trouble with her, I can only assume, are being brutish, and foolish. You don't choose the "[shock her] call me lord" dialog options. You sweet talk her. You convince her that "evil" is only a point of view, and that from your point of view "it is the jedi who are evil". You have to think Sidious in episodes 1 through 3. When did Sidious ever shock Anakin? He was nothing but sweet talk, all the time. He turned Anakin to the dark side by convincing him that only he possessed the key to what he wanted, and by goading Anakin to pursue that "by any means possible." You can do the same with Ashara. You can convince her that you are the only one who can bring order to the galaxy. Soon she will be convinced that the Jedi are to weak to take real action "the galaxy is at war and all they do is meditate" and I'm quoting Ashara here. At one point, in conversation, my character says "so, peace is a lie", and she replies "Exactly!" Just don't expect her to approve of *every* DS choice you make. No companion does that. Bioware has been very explicit in that companion's affection is orthogonal to DS and LS. Even Khem Val, who is generally considered one of the most DS companions of any class will sometimes dislike DS options, and really like the LS choice. For example, in Dromund Kaas, choosing to kill the Sith that are killing civilians for sport gives you LS and Khem approval, choosing to kill the snitch does the opposite. Another example is in the Alderaan bonus series, where killing the woman from the Order of Extermination is DS but gives Khem's disapproval, whereas letting her live is LS and Khem approves of. For Khem it's all about displaying power. Sometimes to the point of arrogance, and honestly sometimes to the point of stupidity. This is sometimes evil, and might be your brand of evil, but sometimes it's just brutish. Ashara is more the calculating, ruthless, "by any means necessary" type of Evil. She does not approve of you killing two innocent civilians just for the "pleasure of it". But letting millions of civilians die, in order to push forward your agenda? Yeah, 40 affections points right there. So, *my* Ashara is no less "evil" than Anakin was at the end of Episode III. She would willingly "kill the younglings" to further our cause, but would also protest that she's not evil, it is the Jedi who are evil from her point of view. In my mind, the way her character develops is just PERFECT. It's just people who fail to realize her full potential complaining here. Edited January 5, 2012 by DrCereal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ageizm Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Have you met Xalac yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCereal Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Have you met Xalac yet? Yeah, so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ageizm Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just don't expect her to approve of *every* DS choice you make. No companion does that. Bioware has been very explicit in that companion's affection is orthogonal to DS and LS. Emphasis added. Should have quoted the 1st time for clarity...my bad. Xalac seems to like all my DS choices, ALOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCereal Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Companion's affections gains are increased for companions you get later in the game. This is to offset the fact that you get the opportunity to play with them the least. This is true for all companions of all classes. Xalek starts pretty DS off the bat. Whoopdidoo. Though, again, this is not my saying this, Bioware has said that no companion is stricly DS or LS, though they might be aligned mostly towards one or the other. Does he approve of EVERY DS choice, and disapprove of every LS choice? I don't know, I don't think you or anyone else (outside of Bioware) knows either, that would require a massive amount of in-game research. My suspicion is that this is not the case, however, going just by what Bioware has officially announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashnazg Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 At some point in Ashara's romance line she says verbatim: "..I know I am not officially your apprentice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Even Khem Val, who is generally considered one of the most DS companions of any class will sometimes dislike DS options, and really like the LS choice. For example, in Dromund Kaas, choosing to kill the Sith that are killing civilians for sport gives you LS and Khem approval, choosing to kill the snitch does the opposite. Another example is in the Alderaan bonus series, where killing the woman from the Order of Extermination is DS but gives Khem's disapproval, whereas letting her live is LS and Khem approves of. Im pretty sure the first case gives Khem approval because he flat out likes killing force users. The second case I havent played yet Ashara is more the calculating, ruthless, "by any means necessary" type of Evil. She does not approve of you killing two innocent civilians just for the "pleasure of it". But letting millions of civilians die, in order to push forward your agenda? Yeah, 40 affections points right there. Again, it states somewhere that she just likes rational choices, that you rationalize what you are trying to do, even if that is killing civilians. She doesn't like killing them for fun. Edited January 5, 2012 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCereal Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 At some point in Ashara's romance line she says verbatim: "..I know I am not officially your apprentice." True. Yet, many times you have the choice of calling her just that, 'your apprentice'. For example When you first land in Hoth, you get the choice of who you want to take with you. If you choose Ashara your character says something like "Come apprentice, this will be the perfect opportunity to continue your training". Ultimately, it's "officially" according to whom? Obviously not according your character, if you so choose. Another possibility, is that if you choose different dialog options then she isn't your apprentice. I wouldn't know, but I suspect you can pursue this line. Then her romance dialogue could simply be mirroring that choice. Finally, you really should hide spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 At some point in Ashara's romance line she says verbatim: "..I know I am not officially your apprentice." In my story, I have said "I already have an apprentice" in reference to Ashara just before travelling to Korriban to meet the new batch of possible apprentices, including Xalek and "This is a perfect opportunity to train my apprentice more." - When choosing Ashara to accompany me. Also, person X (uh spoiler) says that I need more than one apprentice after person Y killed my two previous ones. So at this time and age, its perfectly ok to have multiple apprentices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCereal Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Oh, are people assuming you can only have one apprentice? Is that where all this ignorance stems from? The Rule of Two will not be introduced for another few millennia! In the SWTOR timeframe it is perfectly reasonable, even expected, to have more than one apprentice. For instance, minor spoiler: Both Darth Zash and Darth Baras are known to have more than one concurrent apprentice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naiobi Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I like your point of view. Thanks for that. I am playing all class quests together with a Sith Warrior and I always feel to get the worse of everything: Companions (I hated Khem Val btw. and much had preferred Vette), Masters, Apprentices. What really gets to me is, that the Sith Warrior actually corrupts the female Jedi Companion ("Strike me down with alll your anger!") and she becomes his apprentice. With Ashara it's like: "Oh, you killed my masters... well I got nothing to do now, so I'll just come along with you, I guess...") But now that I know Ashara is not all that LS, I think I'll be (more) happy to tag her along. Also what I don't like is that Ashara cannot use LS sabers (because I am DS), I'd like her to have blue/green sabers. But that is a topic for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 ) Also what I don't like is that Ashara cannot use LS sabers (because I am DS), I'd like her to have blue/green sabers. But that is a topic for another thread. She could in the beginning. My Ashara had a blue lightsabre right after I acquired her, and could use it. However, now she has progressed so that she no longer can use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw_dragon Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Interesting thread, i did get 40 affection while choosing a DS dialogue too Can i just ask also, what is Ashara's main stat for gear im guessing its strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrandt Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It has nothing to do with whether a choice is dark side or light side. She responds well to choices that are logical and thoughtful. Evil where evil is necessary, such as killing one man to save the lives of a hundred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluumberry Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Emphasis added. Should have quoted the 1st time for clarity...my bad. Xalac seems to like all my DS choices, ALOT. I picked a super light side option in Corellia that he liked....so erm yeah. Oh and it's Xalek. Edited January 5, 2012 by bluumberry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berjiz Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ashara is neither DS or LS, she is just extremtly rational. The biggest +affection I got with her has been DS choices but they were rational. Thinking about her in the old dnd alignment system is probably better. So far she feels lawful netutral for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It has nothing to do with whether a choice is dark side or light side. She responds well to choices that are logical and thoughtful. Evil where evil is necessary, such as killing one man to save the lives of a hundred. Thats my experience too, but so many people complained losing affection with her after choosing darkside choices that I started to doubt. Maybe its just disinformation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kauhu Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I actually wondered about this too, but then I understood that it's all about rational choices. She dislikes chaos and pointless murder. She's pretty gray character in that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloco Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Boring companion is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithorious Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Emphasis added. Should have quoted the 1st time for clarity...my bad. Xalac seems to like all my DS choices, ALOT. There ARE some dark side choices he doesn't agree with. Just did one on Ilum that lost me 200 affection, won't give it away though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karinos Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 She will be your dark side apprentice, your follower, your lover (if you are male char) and almost wife, she will want to rise your children and pass on your legacy, only thing is - buy her companion gifts !!! - you can rise 10k/10k in like 3h or so - companion gifts rank 1 until you start getting 19 points of affection only - then start rank 2 from vendor and afterwards only rank 3,4,5 from GTN. you reach 9k/10k you get final dialogue with her and she is your's dark side for ever. Do it the same with every other companion - and you don't need to worry about your DS/LS choices during questing. look here for what gifts to buy http://www.swtor-spy.com/companions/ list is more/less accurate - so check always gift type before you loose credits on GTN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Its generally good idea to at least hint what the spoiler concerns.. So I can decide whether or not to click it. Edited January 5, 2012 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight_Malice Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) refering to the Ashara "apprentice" debate.... just before Voss.... I just got through a dialogue where my character said to Darth Khem Zash stay away from my apprentace, refering to Ashara, so it seems as if you are protecting her from being corrupteds by others at least... but then they go and do a bunch of research together so with that.... Both you and her act as if you are, mildly teacher/student, but not in an official Sith capacity. and sorry for spelling im friggin tired but cant sleep at all. Edited January 5, 2012 by Midnight_Malice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evileeyore Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It has nothing to do with whether a choice is dark side or light side. She responds well to choices that are logical and thoughtful. Evil where evil is necessary, such as killing one man to save the lives of a hundred. Killing one to save hundreds is not evil. Anyone who thinks otherwise is of limited mental capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serai Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Killing one to save hundreds is not evil. Anyone who thinks otherwise is of limited mental capacity. Targeting military grade missiles to shoot at a military target in Cademimu is considered evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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