What do we use: +Crit Rating or +Power?

[Sevvy]

93% Accuracy

 

Are you looking at your Ranged tab? Your Tech tab will probably show 103%.

[Redbeers]

Okay I did some calculatons. Please let me know if my math is off.

 

Assume:

 

Cunning: 600

Base Damage: 1000

Crit Rating: 300

Power Rating: 300

 

Formulas from here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=63362

 

Crit Chance % = 5 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( PrimaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( CritRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.45 ) )

 

Power Damage Bonus = Power * 0.23

 

Details

 

300 crit gives approximate 11% more chance.

11% more chance = 5.5 % more damage (50% increase without surge)

(Note 200 crit gives 8%, it starts to fall off after 250)

300 power rating = 69 more damage (0.23 per point)

 

Summary:

 

The lower the base damage, the better power becomes.

Power gives quite a bit more damage. 6.9 percent versus 5.5 percent.

 

 

Notes and questions:

 

I'm not in front of the game so I can't find out what a good base damage. I'm at 40 in game and as I recall my base was much lower than 1000.

 

The other thing I don't remember is if power effects melee in the same way that it effects range. I think it does.

 

If your base damage is only around 600, power becomes awsome. But PVP is often about burst.

 

Can anyone check this? fill in what is a good base damage estimate? Is it skill based?

[epixhints]

Okay I did some calculatons. Please let me know if my math is off.

 

<snip>

 

There is no *base* tech damage. The only things that use base ranged damage are Rifle Shot and Overload Shot, which make up a pitiful percent of our damage. As such, power doesn't have an inflection point with weapon damage.

 

You could say that your cunning and tech power stats are your "base" tech damage as they will be pretty static in a specific gear tier. In this case, your base tech damage would be Cunning*0.2+TechPower*0.23. Base damage for all abilities is based on a constant for the level you trained that ability at.

Edited January 4, 2012 by epixhints

[Redbeers]

There is no *base* tech damage. The only things that use base ranged damage are Rifle Shot and Overload Shot, which make up a pitiful percent of our damage. As such, power doesn't have an inflection point with weapon damage.

 

You could say that your cunning and tech power stats are your "base" tech damage as they will be pretty static in a specific gear tier. In this case, your base tech damage would be Cunning*0.2+TechPower*0.23. Base damage for all abilities is based on a constant for the level you trained that ability at.

 

Do we have a breakdown of what skills use what base? power or tech

I mean most of my damage comes from hidden, shiv, etc. But I also use dart and my shot quite a bit. Thanks.

[epixhints]

Do we have a breakdown of what skills use what base? power or tech

I mean most of my damage comes from hidden, shiv, etc. But I also use dart and my shot quite a bit. Thanks.

 

You can check your abilities page in the UI. All our abilities are Tech except for Headshot, Snipe, Rifle Shot and Overload Shot.

[Phated]

Good to see some more advanced info. I was kinda hoping somebody who knew more than I did would take over since my calculations were very basic. Without knowing how the ratings translated into percentages, comparing just the % was the best I could come up with.

[Capsup]

So I spent sometime today creating a java program that can calculate this. Basically it takes some inputs, crunch every single combination there is of these and spits out the combo that awarded the most damage.

 

So without further ado I present to you the most optimal stat distribution across your gear if the gear can give 500 stats consisting of: Power, Crit Rating, Surge Rating or Accuracy rating with a total of 1k cunning and a base damage of 1k aswell:

 

Power: 248

Critical Rating: 150

Surge Rating: 100

Accuracy Rating: 2

Damage dealt over 100 attacks: 118372

 

So there you have it. That's what it looks like if you were to have nothing but 1000 cunning with a base attack of 1000 at level 50 and could precisely pick the stats you wanted.

I'm in the process of finishing this small program with a fancy GUI and all, and will release it as soon as it is finished. I have to go soon, but after I get back I will make it start crunching the numbers with 1000 stat points. If anyone has any requests to any number crunching, let me know.

[trotsky_tor]

I'm not sure you can accurately model the efficacy of Accuracy, as its main purpose is to counter opponent's Defense stat. Unless you are including a base defense for opponents as well.

[Capsup]

Nope, it's easier than that. Accuracy effectively reduces the targets resistances / defense, so in essence it works just like a multiplier. Say your accuracy comes to a percent of 110%, then damage is just damage * 1.1; It's that simple. Edited January 5, 2012 by Capsup

[Phated]

So I spent sometime today creating a java program that can calculate this. Basically it takes some inputs, crunch every single combination there is of these and spits out the combo that awarded the most damage.

 

So without further ado I present to you the most optimal stat distribution across your gear if the gear can give 500 stats consisting of: Power, Crit Rating, Surge Rating or Accuracy rating with a total of 1k cunning and a base damage of 1k aswell:

 

Power: 248

Critical Rating: 150

Surge Rating: 100

Accuracy Rating: 2

Damage dealt over 100 attacks: 118372

 

So there you have it. That's what it looks like if you were to have nothing but 1000 cunning with a base attack of 1000 at level 50 and could precisely pick the stats you wanted.

I'm in the process of finishing this small program with a fancy GUI and all, and will release it as soon as it is finished. I have to go soon, but after I get back I will make it start crunching the numbers with 1000 stat points. If anyone has any requests to any number crunching, let me know.

 

So rough percentage of stats works out to ~50% power, 30% crit and 20% surge? I'm not sure how well the accuracy was figured into that equation, so I'm leaving it out for now. 2 points is a negligible amount anyway. ( < .5%)

 

I'm wondering if that distribution holds true across the board or if certain stats weigh higher once you get to a certain amount of total stats. Like at 1000 or dropped to 250, etc. I'd also kinda like to see the formulas you used before we take your word for it, no offense.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Phated

[Sevvy]

It seems that Accuracy sucks. And our endgame gear is loaded with it. Lololol.

[Phated]

It seems that Accuracy sucks. And our endgame gear is loaded with it. Lololol.

 

At least most of it can be changed around with mods. It also might be a lot more useful in raids if the pattern from previous games continues. +Hit from Rift for example.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Phated

[Capsup]

Due remember this is with only 500 stat points to use. That's about 6-7 pieces of pvp gear. As I said, I'll run it through with 1k points instead asap. By then perhaps accuracy has a bigger influence?

Anyways, Accuracy is calculated just as the others with the formulas from sithwarrior.com

I simulate 100 hits with a input base damage and an input primary stat. Working on secondary stat right now. So what it does is basically take every possible combination there is where the stat points equals 1k, simulates 100 hits with those points and save the damage. It keeps doing that until there is no more combinations available and spits out the saved damage + stat allocation combo. Accuracy is applied at the very last step simply by instead of having an enemy with a defense stat, it adds to the damage as a multiplier which is the next best other than simulating an opponent aswell.

I'll work on getting the GUI in a somework stable state and release a runable .jar file to you as soon as possible. But until then you'll have to do with asking me to do the number crunching.

Next on the list is also to include alicrity and figure out what stats will yield you the best healing.

[Sevvy]

At least most of it can be changed around with mods. It also might be a lot more useful in raids if the pattern from previous games continues. +Hit from Rift for example.

 

I would think that you probably need a bit more Accuracy for boss fights, but I don't know. Hopefully by the time this game is released they'll have a working combat log for us.

[Phated]

Came across something interesting that I don't think we'd considered before (or forgot about) while I was reading through sithwarrior.com. It changes things a bit and could make crit a little more important.

 

Crit will also be useful for Scrapper/Concealment specs as Underdog/Meticulously Kept Blades increases our crit damage for Back Blast/Backstab, Shoot First/Hidden Strike & Flechette Round/Acid Blade.

 

Essentially, 3 of our major damage abilities do an extra 30% dmg on crits, making the base crit multiplier for them 1.8 instead of 1.5.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Phated

[Capsup]

I've just started the number crunching for 1k stat points! It seems to take about 1 minute per percent, so expect it to be done in an hour at earliest... I'll post various source and explain my code so hopefully anyone of you can spot any mistakes that I might be doing. We'll see what the result is!

[ThrasherGX]

Actually i noticed something that may have been an issue with your math, or i could just be reading your posts wrong. Accuracy above 100% reduces defense and resistance, which means their chance to defend, not their armor. So if a tank has a 15% chance to dodge ur attack, and u have 110% accuracy, the tank actually only has a 5% chance to dodge.

[epixhints]

Do you mind sharing the equations you are using to estimate damage? I am curious how you determine 100 attacks? 100 Shivs? 100 Backstabs? 100 attacks in some rotation?

[SinDantes]

I'm assuming it's just the maximum damage output an OP can muster. So the rotation shouldn't matter much as the calc is simply to determine the best mixture of secondary statistics. Right?

[epixhints]

I'm assuming it's just the maximum damage output an OP can muster. So the rotation shouldn't matter much as the calc is simply to determine the best mixture of secondary statistics. Right?

 

Since different abilities have different coefficients, power affects them differently. How frequently you use your abilities will affect how much power affects your overall damage.

Edited January 5, 2012 by epixhints

[SinDantes]

That's the beauty of this game though, there is no truly perfect rotation, aside from - Hidden Strike>Backstab>Shiv>Lacerate

 

What do I know?! lol

[Seriasx]

Power for pve

crit for pvp

[epixhints]

That's the beauty of this game though, there is no truly perfect rotation, aside from - Hidden Strike>Backstab>Shiv>Lacerate

 

What do I know?! lol

 

Well there is some obvious stuff you will want to do. As concealment you are going to want to keep Acid Blade up on your target all the time; as Lethality you will want to keep Weakining Blast on your target all the time; etc. etc.

[Capsup]

I only approximate damage based on each of your attacks damaging exactly one value everytime ie 1000. This is a basic program just to give us a very precise idea rather than guess work. Sure, if I actually wanted to I could make it actually calculate damage based on some rotation etc but that is simply too much work for too little gain. But its finished the calculations on 1k stat points and there seems to arise a very clear pattern here:

 

The combo that does the most damage is: 500, 300, 200, 0 with 131418 damage done.

 

That is 500 power, 300 crit rating, 200 surge rating and 0 accuracy. It seems accuracy is way out of the picture here and the 50% power, 30% crit rating and 20% surge rating that the other guy posted is right according to my math atleast.

My approach is very simple, perhaps too simple but it definitely gives us a VERY clear picture.

 

The following algorhitms are what I use to calculate the various ratings. In these I assume a primary stat of 1k aswell. This can easily be changed too:

 

double Power = ( i * 0.23 );

double CritRating = 5 + 30 * ( 1 - Math.pow( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) , ( 1000 / 50 ) / 2.5 ) ) + 30 * ( 1 - Math.pow( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) , ( j / 50 ) / 0.45 ) );

double CritDamage = 50 + 50 * ( 1 - Math.pow( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.5 ), ( k / 50 ) / 0.1 ) );

double Accuracy = 90 + 30 * ( 1 - Math.pow( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ), ( l / 50 ) / 0.55 ) );

 

That is just stolen from Sithwarrior and translated into Java.

 

My simulation of damage is just as simple, but in essence it should be perfectly valid:

 

http://pastebin.com/aVbDWHsx

 

Basically what I do is floor the percentage of crit and directly translate that into 1 percent = 1 crit. In real life, this is definitely not the case. I could easily make it use RNG instead, but that introduces randomness into the picture. Something which we definitely are not interested in at this point. So what I've done is simply if your crit percentage comes out to 34,45% you get 34 crits that adds the surge rating outcome onto the damage. Accuracy starts on 90 for some abilities and 100 for others. I've gone with 90 on everything for the simplicity on it aswell. Then it just keeps doing that with all possible combinations from 0-1k, simulates the damage with a base dmg of what ever. I chose 1k for simplicity. This implies that every single spell of yours does exactly 1k damage every time and that all abilities uses the same values. As IA we only have 4 ranged abilities: Rifle Shot, Overload Shot, Snipe and another that I forgot. So basically 95% of our damage output comes from Tech, so my method is also very simple here but it will work regardless.

 

The only place I see where I could improve it is to make it possible to input a rotation and then simulate on that. I can easily add this but I am focusing on the UI right now so I can release it to the rest of you.

 

 

If anyone notice any huge flaws in my math or anything please let me know. I'll correct it immediately and recalculate.

I hope my work has been of somewhat informative meaning.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Capsup

[epixhints]

As IA we only have 4 ranged abilities: Rifle Shot, Overload Shot, Snipe and another that I forgot. So basically 95% of our damage output comes from Tech, so my method is also very simple here but it will work regardless

 

Cull, Carbine Burst, & Weakening Blast are also Ranged attacks.

 

I am still concerned that ignoring coefficients of abilities is skewing the results by quite a bit.

 

Using your numbers, with my calculations spamming Rifle Shot 100 times would yield 160873.2865 damage. Going 400P/300C/300S with my calculations gets you to 161105.895 damage.

 

The same ratios using Overload Shot instead gets me 202223.2263 damage for you ratios vs 201176.1305 for my numbers.

 

There's just something a little off by ignoring how damage is actually calculated to give some golden rule of 5:3:2.

 

Additionally, using an abnormally high rifle damage is probably devaluing power a bit.

A Tionese rifle does 284-426 damage. With 1000 cunning and nothing else, this would hit for about 550 per Rifle Shot, not 1000.

Edited January 5, 2012 by epixhints