I'm still waiting for the argument that op/scoundrel is balanced.

[Knifewrench]

Let's leave the flame out. This has nothing to do with my performance or anyone else's in relation to an op/scoundrel's, how "good" they are, how "bad" I am, etc. Their scoreboard performance does not matter. What matters is their ability to take out anyone in a very short amount of time and are nowhere near as destructible.

 

Anyone who says this is a "glass cannon" must've not had any experience with them at all, and I highly doubt they know what they're talking about.

 

"This is a team game" is also wrong. It should not take 3v1 to take anyone down when everyone is equal. If one person equaled more than one because of their class and this is completely okay, why are we not letting extra people to queue on our team to balance it out? What do you do when EVERY person on one team is an op/scoundrel? We can't really 3v1 8 people.

[Welve]

part of it is expertise, that is why you see 50s 3 shotting people and critting for like 6-8k

 

remove expertise from the game and like 90% of the problems in warzones disappears

[mechintel]

I am in full champion gear with one off-hand piece that is centurion. The only way I can possibly deal with operatives is to only use my CC breaker when they use hidden strikes, and then quickly stun them, until I can get back out at range where I can kite them.

 

Yeah this makes it so that the op doesn't kill me EVERY time... but having a class that I have to specifically worry about above all others should be the sheer definition of OP. It's not like the things that counter an operative don't also counter every other class.

 

"Oh, I can't do anything if you stun me."

 

"Oh, I can't take on 3 people at the same time."

 

"Oh, I totally dominate sub-50 players but I only win most of the time against level 50s."

 

"Oh, after I totally decimate one person I have to go back into stealth before I can do the whole thing over again."

 

These are not legitimate complaints. The CC and such I can deal with. The only problem with Operatives is their burst capabilities. It's simply not fun to play against a class that is capable of killing you so ridiculously faster than any other class in the game. They don't have to nerf the class, they just need to smooth the damage out so it isn't so spikey. The damage doesn't need to be removed as it really is comparable to many other classes damage. It just needs to be moved around so that it isn't so stackable in a narrow window of time.

[Agent_Kestrel]

The current problem with Operatives / Scoundrels is that they do WAY to much damage and can take quite alot of dmg to put down, and lets not forget their ability to disappear and run away/ come back and instagib you.

 

I think BW should take the Team fortress approach with the spy, keep them as they are damage wise but greatly reduce their hp, for them to play their original roll as a glass cannon.

[Haam]

Since the whole ship is sinking, it affects everyone equally and is therefore balanced

[wixxkruppel]

The current problem with Operatives / Scoundrels is that they do WAY to much damage and can take quite alot of dmg to put down

 

Lol?

 

Operatives are like paper, probably the squishiest class in the game.

[Paltu]

There is no valid argument that Op/scoundrels can make, they're OP as hell and need to be nerfed. There is no reason someone should be able to kill you in 3 seconds from 100% to dead in a single CC knockdown. It's broken as hell and needs to be fixed.

[wixxkruppel]

There is no valid argument that Op/scoundrels can make, they're OP as hell and need to be nerfed. There is no reason someone should be able to kill you in 3 seconds from 100% to dead in a single CC knockdown. It's broken as hell and needs to be fixed.

 

What level are you, and what is your gear?

 

What level are the ops you're fighting against, and more importantly, what is THEIR gear?

Edited January 3, 2012 by wixxkruppel

[Zarthorn]

I actually like that OP/Scoundrel does a lot of burst, what I don't like is how much control they have to boot.

 

Drop a little bit of control or a little bit of the burst imho and they will be just fine, don't go to town on them though, although I don't actually play one, I've faced enough of them to know that if Bioware take too much away in one aspect they will be a trash class.

[Paltu]

What level are you, and what is your gear?

 

What level are the ops you're fighting against, and more importantly, what is THEIR gear?

 

38, and I'm fighting anywhere from 20-50. Almost all of them are able to stun lock me even when my resolve is full, and do insane burst. 2.5k is the smallest critical hit I've seen from the CC melee strike BS.

[Bloodtau]

I'm a lv 46 PT with heavy armour and 16k hp. They kill me in 3 hits. If anyone says they aren't op are playing them.

[Rambuster]

38, and I'm fighting anywhere from 20-50. Almost all of them are able to stun lock me even when my resolve is full, and do insane burst. 2.5k is the smallest critical hit I've seen from the CC melee strike BS.

 

your lucky then, the smallest crit ive seen from one is only 4k. and im a 42 sorc, i wont even bother using my cc braker if one opens up on me, just to only die a few seconds later from him.

[YpaWinz]

38, and I'm fighting anywhere from 20-50. Almost all of them are able to stun lock me even when my resolve is full, and do insane burst. 2.5k is the smallest critical hit I've seen from the CC melee strike BS.

 

This doesn't make any sense. Copied from my post in (one of) the other "Operatives are OP" threads -

 

Our CC is on the same kind of resolve timers as anyone else's.

 

Hidden Strike, Sleep Dart, Flashbang - all off them fill the resolve bar to full. Which means for the next ...8 seconds? you are immune to anything that causes you to be unable to control your character.

 

The only other stun type ability we have is debilitate on a 30/45 sec cooldown.

 

We then have a snare (talented w/ 2 sec root) that doesn't affect resolve, but that's the same for any snare root.

 

Our burst damage is decent, but even now at lvl 41 I can see it leveling off as I start going up against more even leveled/geared players.

 

I think folks need to understand resolve and then understand when/how to best use their "trinket" ability. Once we shoot our initial load, our best options are to vanish and wait/hope for another solid opener or try to toe-to-toe someone and maybe die. (Assuming equal skill.)

 

It all comes down to situational awareness and your knowledge of your class and that of your opponent.

[Khayleth]

I'm a level 50 jug with some pvp gear and mostly 48-50 blues and purples with maybe one or two greens, with my 40% damage reduction cd up, an op burst me from 100% to sub 20% 1v1 in huttball. The OP's gear was roughly equal to my own, slightly worse with less expertise.

 

They are not balanced, in the least. Even if they are squishy, they have too many control and outs for it to matter.

[Wyiizek]

As a 50 Sent with half champ gear, I get out at about 40% health, stealth up to deny acid blade ticks, heal pot and re-engage at a several thousand health deficit. They then use shield probe, which really reduces my melee damage.

Once my resolve bar is gone, they can stun and get me close to dead. Against competent ones, I have basically no chance to win unless they make mistakes- we just can't get them down (with shield probe up, health pot, etc) faster than they can us when we are starting from such a disadvantage. I speak for sentinels only. If they don't have all their cooldowns up, they're toast though. Oh, and we can't forget the cheese vanish re-hidden strike ftw!...

[Knifewrench]

Lol?

 

Operatives are like paper, probably the squishiest class in the game.

 

You are either trolling or are retarded. If you're playing an operative and you are dying as one, you are failing to use your instant heals and escape mechanics. There's tons of other classes squishier than an op.

[Evilbrood]

I demand 1v1 balance in a team based pvp game!

[Knifewrench]

I demand 1v1 balance in a team based pvp game!

 

^ only reads the title and not the full post.

[Wyiizek]

I demand 1v1 balance in a team based pvp game!

 

operative teams ftw? I demand you think before you post, operative burst is such that they can burst someone before they can get heals (unless in vent, mumble etc), roll full operative teams ftw. New idea, thanks!

[Xavory]

Ops are OPd vs people who are under geared. The horror stories you hear from people claiming to be "geared" level 50s getting dropped to 40% in an opener is from an Ops/Scoundrel who:

 

Outgears them,

Is popping CDs/Relics/Pots

Has the Ilum buff

has the pvp damage buff

gets a lucky chain of back to back crits

 

 

With 5p Champ gear(300 Expertise) my biggest crits using my relic are around 5k. Most of the time they are around 3800. Thats my biggest attack, and I get to use it once unless I blow vanish. 1v1 it's solid, but in a Warzone it takes more than just pushing the HS button to kill "real" players.

 

If it's the 3second knockdown that pisses everyone off, then make it 1sec and remove the positional requirement on HS. I'd be fine with it.

[Sharpiie]

My friend is an operative healer, and I told him to respec and try DPS because its so OP, he said okay, and not having any previous experience playing as DPS in that class, he got top damage, and took peoples health down to 30% before they can do anything. He says "wow, yeah this is OP."

 

So yeah they are op.

 

(I was watching him play at his house.)

[YpaWinz]

You are either trolling or are retarded. If you're playing an operative and you are dying as one, you are failing to use your instant heals and escape mechanics.

 

The same can be said for those dying TO operatives. If we're not medicine spec'd, we don't have an "instant" heal.

 

We have 1 "escape" mechanic, just like every other class. We do have a talent that let's our threat wipe clear movement impairment, but that's only if we spec heavy into the shared tree. Not having ever spec'd into it myself, I can't say whether or not it shares a CD w/ Escape, though I would assume not since it's not the same kind ability fundamentally.

 

You could argue that Cloaking Screen is an escape mechanic, but it's on a 3 min CD (2 if talented for it) and is rendered ineffective by DoTs.

[Paltu]

They are over powered. Plain and simple. They need the burst dps lowered a lot and drop one of their CC spam abilities, than they might be balanced.

No class should ever be able to open up from stealth and 2 shot someone before they can even react.

Those idiots playing Operatives/Scoundrels that think skill is giving them the wins are only fooling themselves. Expect a big fat nerf you idiots.

[Vgbeee]

Lol?

 

Operatives are like paper, probably the squishiest class in the game.

 

Operatives are REALLY playing up the whole "squishy" deal. You're talking as though the class folds in half from a slight breeze. The class has very powerful cooldowns and heals.

 

You'll probably lose against another melee class in a straight 1v1 fight without any opener (assuming equal gear and skill), but you're not going to get steamrolled and you can always just vanish if you time a CC around the dot timer. Your class is a priority focus target because of your retarded burst. Not because you're defenseless.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Vgbeee

[Euphymie]

commandos have zero escape mechanics.

 

We have very little utility and once an op opens up on your, the best thing you can do is dps as fast as you can.

 

Only the dot spec commando can maybe survive a little longer but still in the same boat, can't do anything because all our skills require cast time, and then we have to deal with pushback on abilities making our dps rough, an interupt delays our attack and kills us faster.