JohnQuinn Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Haha, Bioware makes me laugh. It's called clever usage of game mechanics, how can you punish someone over looting containers, which has no restriction on them, and calling players that are "systematically looting" (which is called farming and is OK) for exploiters? Really? This is almost as pathetic as how little it takes to get a forum ban. Might as well wait for the next MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keadil Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If thats how the game was designed and coded why is that the players fault? Can someone clarify why a patch/fix wouldn't be more appropriate than banning players who may or may not have known this was a ban-able offense? I can understand that it wasn't Biowares intention as far as game design - but the facts are they designed it that way and therefor should take full responsibility. It's because a patch takes time. That's why devs let you know that it is bannable to continue on the same path until a patch goes in, just like this guy received and ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiatonia Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If thats how the game was designed and coded why is that the players fault? Can someone clarify why a patch/fix wouldn't be more appropriate than banning players who may or may not have known this was a ban-able offense? I can understand that it wasn't Biowares intention as far as game design - but the facts are they designed it that way and therefor should take full responsibility. I just posted that it doesn't address the people who took advantage of it. Try as hard as some people might. Just because a glitch, exploit, or loop-hole exists, does not mean it is there to be used. Nor is it kosher to use it for your own gain. Common sense is always a rule in of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humpacactus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 It's because a patch takes time. That's why devs let you know that it is bannable to continue on the same path until a patch goes in, just like this guy received and ignored. Fair enough. Could someone clarify how many warnings had been sent and over what time frame? Is there any warning system on these forums or through the game to notify you or is it all through personal email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humpacactus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I just posted that it doesn't address the people who took advantage of it. Try as hard as some people might. Just because a glitch, exploit, or loop-hole exists, does not mean it is there to be used. Nor is it kosher to use it for your own gain. Common sense is always a rule in of itself. Well you could argue that it's definitely not common sense. If they let you in the zone and let you collect the items I think most people would presume it was allowed by bioware (as they created the game and coded it that way). If you get warnings "in game" then there is no excuse. Otherwise I'm not sure I agree at all. Sometimes people don't check their email for weeks - they may have never known at all. Edited January 3, 2012 by humpacactus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazysam Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 So if players what to spend all day farming credits for their own use they can be warned or banned? That doesn't seem right and runs contrary to maintaining an open economy. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberries Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I don't see how people can defend Bioware here. Do Blizzard ban level 1 characters who play the AH? No they don't. Level 1 characters, on my servers, own the WoW economy because they play the AH. It's totally fine. If anything it helps because you always have something on the AH for a reasonble price due to constant undercutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiatonia Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Well you could argue that it's definitely not common sense. If they let you in the zone and let you collect the items I think most people would presume it was allowed by bioware (as they created the game and coded it that way). If you get warnings "in game" then there is no excuse. Otherwise I'm not sure I agree at all. Sometimes people don't check their email for weeks - they may have never known at all. I would not want to meet the person who would look at an exploit like this and not realize something was up from the very beginning. They would probably be dangerous to be around just from how oblivious they'd have to be. I saw a low leveled character taking advantage of this a few days ago, and only suspected what was up at the time. If I had known more at the time I would have reported him. He most definitely did not go to the middle of nowhere and loiter there on Ilum just to "see the sights". It was deliberate, and malicious exploitation of game mechanics. Edited January 3, 2012 by Radiatonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrolight Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 That doesn't address the problem in any manner. He was saying that the same people were farming items like crazy, and harming the economy in the process. It doesn't matter that he went there on a low lvl character. It doesn't matter that he got loot not intended for his level. What does matter is the player in question was farming to such a degree that it was harming the economy. Which as long as it is just the single person with no one else playing his account is perfectly reasonable. This is not the first game to have this kind of issue. The Devs usually just fix the "problem" and explain why. A temp ban seems a bit extreme unless they were actually warned by a GM to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yulivae Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 The chests in question gave a total of 10,000 credits on a 19 minute respawn timer. Let's take a look at some simple math: 24 * 60 (hours * minutes) = 1440 minutes in a day 1440 / 19 = 75.78 (let's round it up to make your argument better) = 76. 76 x 10,000 = 760,000 credits Players would get 760,000 credits if they farmed the chests every 19 minutes for an entire day. This of course disregards facts like other people, griefing from other people etc. The point people are banned for this is totally ridiculous. The server economy doesn't even exist because you can get upwards of 200-300k credits a day purely from Ilum and Belsavis dailies, and the GTN is *********** horrible. Interesting ... I only know the normal chests that gives you 2.5k - 4.5k every 7 Minutes. So you make (if we take 3.5k as an average) 28k / hour + 8-10k off of gree items (sold to an NPC vendor). Well if you do that 24 hours a day (which can only be done with botting ... at least over a longer period of time) you get a lot of credits. But that's not so much money compared to what the crafting will cost you if you wan't some nice epics. I still don't see the problem as long as you don't exploit a bug. The chest respawns -> means to me: I can loot it. And if I decide to stay at the chest for 24 hours ... why not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiatonia Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Which as long as it is just the single person with no one else playing his account is perfectly reasonable. This is not the first game to have this kind of issue. The Devs usually just fix the "problem" and explain why. A temp ban seems a bit extreme unless they were actually warned by a GM to stop. The first post said warnings were issued. This is posted like every other page when people bring this up. Edited January 3, 2012 by Radiatonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I would not want to meet the person who would look at an exploit like this and not realize something was up from the very beginning. They would probably be dangerous to be around just from how oblivious they'd have to be. I saw a low leveled character taking advantage of this a few days ago, and only suspected what was up at the time. If I had known more at the time I would have reported him. He most definitely did not go to the middle of nowhere and loiter there on Ilum just to "see the sights". It was deliberate, and malicious exploitation of game mechanics. And if they are going to punish people for camping then they need to be explicit about how long is too long to be in one location. Are they going to punish the person who was there for 1 hour but not the person who was there fore 45 mins? What about 30 mins? 15 mins? 5 mins? Rules need to be specific if you are going to punish people for how long they are in a certain location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humpacactus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I would not want to meet the person who would look at an exploit like this and not realize something was up from the very beginning. They would probably be dangerous to be around. I saw a low leveled character taking advantage of this a few days ago, and only suspected what was up at the time. If I had known more at the time I would have reported him. He most definitely did not go to the middle of nowhere and loiter there on Ilum just to "see the sights". It was deliberate, and malicious exploitation of game mechanics. I 100% agree that some people probably realized it was an exploit and exploited it (which is upsetting but happens in MMO's). Although I hope you can agree that there are definitely some players (maybe even some new to MMO's) that would have had no idea they where "cheating" by using the games basic mechanics. I can easily see someone new to MMO's coming across this and saying "Wow I can make a lot of gold doing this I might as well keep it up!" As I stated before - did the warnings get sent in game or through personal email (this is a very important point IMO)? Also, what was the time frame between warnings to bans? As a company you generally want to favor the consumer, especially when its a problem Bioware has created themselves. This clearly isn't your average item/currency dupe. Edited January 3, 2012 by humpacactus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJDrakken Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Either level restrict Illum or the containers, that would "SOLVE" so much, instead you got a crapstorm exploding all over the place about this. JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrolight Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 The first post said warnings were issued. This is posted like every other page when people bring this up. It was a warning or temp ban, they say nothing about warnings before hand unless I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiatonia Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) And if they are going to punish people for camping then they need to be explicit about how long is too long to be in one location. Are they going to punish the person who was there for 1 hour but not the person who was there fore 45 mins? What about 30 mins? 15 mins? 5 mins? Rules need to be specific if you are going to punish people for how long they are in a certain location. They were pretty explicit, I thought. If I go away for seven hours, and a guy is still sitting there when I come back that way. Odds are he's exploiting something he shouldn't be. The first post even says that there's no restriction to looting containers at low levels. It's when you start abusing the spawns by sitting there constantly to nab them that you'll get a warning or temp ban. Edited January 3, 2012 by Radiatonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zones Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 They were pretty explicit, I thought. If I go away for seven hours, and a guy is still sitting there when I come back that way. Odds are he's exploiting something he shouldn't be. Actually if I witnessed that behavior I'd submit a ticket for a suspected bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberries Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 They were pretty explicit, I thought. If I go away for seven hours, and a guy is still sitting there when I come back that way. Odds are he's exploiting something he shouldn't be. He's not exploiting. He's spending his time in 1 area to farm. Are you *********** stupid? People do not get banned in WoW for farming mobs in the same area for hours and hours. Hell, I remember back in 2004 - 2005 in WoW you could quietly go to Eastern Plaguelands and farm Tyr's Hand (the elite scarlet enclave area) for hours and hours just to make money. This game is either Soviet Russia with it's horrid economy or simply Nazi Germany where you can't do anything without the gestapo telling you you're going to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humpacactus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 They were pretty explicit, I thought. If I go away for seven hours, and a guy is still sitting there when I come back that way. Odds are he's exploiting something he shouldn't be. The first post even says that there's no restriction to looting containers at low levels. It's when you start abusing the spawns by sitting there constantly to nab them that you'll get a warning or temp ban. I could completely understand what your saying if this was a botting situation or duping situation. This person worked all those hours to get those items that Bioware placed in the game and allowed them to loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 They were pretty explicit, I thought. Really? Where was the time limit they stated? And while your personal interpretation may be "7 hours"(your words) there needs to be an official statement that everyone has to go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrolight Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) The first post even says that there's no restriction to looting containers at low levels. It's when you start abusing the spawns by sitting there constantly to nab them that you'll get a warning or temp ban. Which is the problem. There is no issue in looting just how long you sit there. That wanders off into a very grey area. You are doing something that is intended (looting containers) but doing it for an unintended (as bioware has stated) length. That is just a little off. IN the end there should have been no temp bans for it, just "clarifications". Actually if I witnessed that behavior I'd submit a ticket for a suspected bot. After this one choco digger back in the day in FFXI, 7 hours is nothing. It was basically as he told me what he did for fun. Edited January 3, 2012 by Pyrolight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chizhik Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 The first post said warnings were issued. This is posted like every other page when people bring this up. According to the OP, players were warned OR temporarily suspended. Sounds like some accounts got away with only a warning, while other received temporary suspensions. Depending on how close they got to Bioware's definition of "excessive" farming, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zones Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 After this one choco digger back in the day in FFXI, 7 hours is nothing. It was basically as he told me what he did for fun. Not sure what you're talking about, but farming for 7 hours isn't the definition of fun for the majority of people, nor do the majority of people have 7 hours to spend farming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberries Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Not sure what you're talking about, but farming for 7 hours isn't the definition of fun for the majority of people, nor do the majority of people have 7 hours to spend farming. So the people who do farm 7 hours should have an advantage. If you're lazy you deserve to be punished for your laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humpacactus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Well its pretty obvious why there is outrage over this from the community and there has been little clarification of how/when the warnings got sent. It's unfortunate that Bioware designed the game with such a major design flaw but you can't blame dedicated players for playing it! Hopefully this all gets smoothed over but I feel bad for anyone who spent hours farming nice items to only be banned in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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