This week's patch is horrific.

[Cameirus]

wait? They fixed the sith corruption option toggling off, a cosmetic problem only.

 

But have not fixed teh 'show cover bar' option toggling on, which affects gameplay?

 

LOLOLOLOLOL.

[Zhiroc]

I work as a s/w developer IRL (NOT at BW, or even in the gaming industry). It seems to be a common misconception that bugs are easily fixed. Some are, but a lot aren't. Even when there are a lot of high priority, showstopper bugs outstanding, the minor, easy-to-fix bugs will still get fixed. Why? Because often it takes just a few lines of code, and has minimal risk. A developer sees it, maybe while trying to fix the larger bugs, and takes the time to get rid of it.

 

The ones that aren't generally fall into two categories:

 

• The bug is due to a flaw in the design, and takes an intricate overhaul of the entire subsystem to fix.
  
• The bug is not understood, and can't be reproduced in a way that points to a root cause.
  

 

 

Believe me, even if the case in question is a customer losing thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars when a bug happens, that fact alone can't fix it any faster. It may bet more attention, certainly, but there are cases where we worked on such bugs for a month or more, and that was a team of about 5 of our best, and it still took that long.

 

I can probably guess that a system like an MMOG is very much like, or maybe even more complex, that some operating systems out there. I will point at a lot of very popular software that has had years of developer time invested in them (e.g., browsers) that still have very serious bugs in them. I wish it weren't the case, but s/w development is still very much an art, and bugs are part of it.

[Amnolith]

but...but... you can now emote from a mount !!!

 

/jackiechanmemeimage

[LtDanomg]

I like that this ssmall thread gets an answer, but the other with over 1200 pages on the ability delay gets zero

 

As I'm sure many people have pointed out to you already, they have already mentioned that they are looking at the factors causing ability delay.

[DarkoDon]

Folks that complain about bugs, instability, etc make me laugh. It becomes obvious that they haven't played any MMOs at launch and likely jumped on the WoW bandwagon years after its release.

 

EVERY MMO launches with instability, lag, bugs, missing features/content, etc. Every single one. If you've experienced a lot of MMO release days, like I have, then you'd know that this is one of, if not THE, best releases to date.

 

World of Warcraft, the big daddy of the MMOs right now, had a terrible release. The game was practically unplayable for 2 weeks. Massive queues, server downtimes, crashes, lag, ability delays that lasted 5 seconds+ at times, loot lag that could get you stuck kneeling on the ground for 10 minutes, quests that didn't work, NPCs that you'd click on and have to wait 5-10 minutes for them to finally respond, banks/mail that would suddenly be empty as the server searched for your things, taking upwards of half an hour to find them.

 

This game is one of the smoothest and best releases we've gotten. I could count the number of MMOs that released this smoothly on maybe...three fingers.

 

I'd like to add that a few of those bugs STILL exist in WoW, after 6+ years. Atleast they did when I left right before Cata...

[PittyH]

This is ridiculous, how about fixing the green lasers/walls artificing bug.

 

it's a gamebreaker.

[DarkoDon]

BioWare is not going to address or fix those major bugs in a timely manner. Starting this Thursday, it will have been four weeks since early-access started, and the game started for millions of players. That is just about a month since the game came out and some of the more glaring bugs have not been fixed. BH story, hard mode and operation bosses/loot issues, and the countless other bugs in warzones and other aspects of the game.

 

Whats worng with the BH story? Not argueing, im seriously concerned cause im like 34BH now and have not had any issues yet.

 

When can I expect to be pissed/ufcked?

[DarkoDon]

Fair enough! Believe me, I understand that not every requested feature can make it into the game. I'm even grateful for that, as I think that some of the requests that pop up are somewhat unreasonable at times. It's no coincidence that the quality of life examples I listed are some of the ones that I would most like to see implemented, even though I know that it's not practical for us to expect the devs to cater to every individual's personal pet peeves.

 

I very much appreciate that you took the time to reply to my grumpy post. It's good to know that you folks are watching the forums, even though you aren't able to make time to post here as often as we might wish. It's a hectic time of year, and with a large project like this, I can only imagine how busy everyone must be.

 

Despite any criticisms that I might give voice to here on the forums, I am having a great time with the game, and I do have confidence that everyone is working hard to make the game better.

 

 

 

You must have a wife, cause you buckle pretty quik/easy....

[crazysam]

Did you even read the patch notes or were you just in that much of a rush to start dogging the patch before it was even released?

 

"Space Combat

 

Bug Fixes

Fixed an issue that caused a client crash if a space station was destroyed in Space Combat."

 

So it was fixed?

 

glad to here! But you should tell me how they did that cause my client still crashes when im blowing the station! -_-

[KhealThar]

I don't think people that make threads like this realize what goes into programming a game. You don't just go in and change one little thing then BAM all is fixed, it takes work.

 

If you think you can do a better job, go hand in your resume to Bioware, show them how it's done. Until then just stop being ignorant.

 

I'm sure Bioware isn't sitting back in their chairs laughing at us as we come across bugs. They want us to continue playing and you have to be patient. Games in this genre are very fragile and one little thing can cause many problems.

 

If this is your first MMO, you better get used to small things like this, WoW is 7 years old and there is still massive bugs in the game such as not being able to revive after dying etc.

[TheMove]

This guys a joke. http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/commen...ager_for_star/

 

For every question he side steps around it like its top secret military stuff.

 

This is why I canceled my sub. I have no trust or faith in Bioware. Side steping around every question and the future of the game is not going to make me stick around.

 

I would love to be the bigger person and wish this game well. But I can't wait for it to die and go down in flames. We paid for a very unfinished game broken in so many areas and we have to pay $15 to continue playing after 30 days and you can't tell us anything about the future of things in this game.

[Swift]

Client instability, random crashes, and all this stuff should have been done in beta. Thats what Beta is for. Testing, then fixing things that went wrong.

 

So you are saying that WoW should still be in beta then? Because just about every major content patch that has been released in the last 7 years has had client instability and random crashing after it has initially gone live that have taken subsequent patches to fix.

[belialle]

You must have a wife, cause you buckle pretty quik/easy....

 

Hmm. I do have a wife, actually. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

I still believe that both BW and the community at large would benefit from having better communication right here on the forums. I am still anxious to see certain things included/corrected.....But it is at least a little reassuring to know that BW is keeping an eye on the forums for reasons other than removing redundant threads and mysteriously removing posts.

 

And I am, of course, hoping to see some better community interaction going on here in the days to come. I thought indelible wrote a pretty good post to this effect in a reply a few posts back.

Edited January 3, 2012 by belialle

[cdstephen]

They're fixing the BH class quest issue btw. Edited January 3, 2012 by cdstephen

[Daragoz]

Quite frankly, I do not believe the OP understands how things affect gameplay. Does this mean EVERY possible thing in a weekly patch ABSOLUTELY HAS to be uber important?

 

In relation to the "I have never seen anyone request an emote be fixed for mounts" comment. I personally had a emote related issue while riding a waypoint speeder that almost caused the speeder not to work right. So, in BW's defense, perhaps that fix was so people that don't have speeders don't have to be or feel stuck without them. Try WALKING across all of Tatooine sometime. OMG, that is horrendous. I have done it, it sucks. I don't have a speeder skill, and I am lvl 27. I most likely will NEVER have a speeder skill either because I simply do not make enough credits in the game ( Which is a whole different argument). My point is that what if the emote skill could break something in the game and you don't understand that because you don't understand the black art of game programming.

 

Just saying. I do not say this as if it is absolutely true. Just trying to say "what if ..."

[DarkoDon]

Hmm. I do have a wife, actually. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

I still believe that both BW and the community at large would benefit from having better communication right here on the forums. I am still anxious to see certain things included/corrected.....But it is at least a little reassuring to know that BW is keeping an eye on the forums for reasons other than removing redundant threads and mysteriously removing posts.

 

And I am, of course, hoping to see some better community interaction going on here in the days to come. I thought indelible wrote a pretty good post to this effect in a reply a few posts back.

 

 

Just giving you schit, i for one am a buckler when it comes to the wifey. Just had to say it cause i got a chuckle out of it. I agree on the post removals/thread closing. Really BW, this is what your wasting time on....

 

On the otherhand, I believe they have people working on bugs and will eventually have them fixed if they can be. Just sad they won't ever be fast enough to do so. We live in an instant world now. Let me tell you though, we all know what instant gets ya. Low quality instant gratification.

 

I hate to quote him cause I can't stand him anymore, but Dane Cook says it perfectly: If we got teleporters, the DMV would still take like 7 seconds!

[DarkoDon]

They're fixing the BH class quest issue btw.

 

What issue? I'm 34 and have had none. Am I to be screwed later? Or did I just fail to notice the issue?

[DarkoDon]

Quite frankly, I do not believe the OP understands how things affect gameplay. Does this mean EVERY possible thing in a weekly patch ABSOLUTELY HAS to be uber important?

 

In relation to the "I have never seen anyone request an emote be fixed for mounts" comment. I personally had a emote related issue while riding a waypoint speeder that almost caused the speeder not to work right. So, in BW's defense, perhaps that fix was so people that don't have speeders don't have to be or feel stuck without them. Try WALKING across all of Tatooine sometime. OMG, that is horrendous. I have done it, it sucks. I don't have a speeder skill, and I am lvl 27. I most likely will NEVER have a speeder skill either because I simply do not make enough credits in the game ( Which is a whole different argument). My point is that what if the emote skill could break something in the game and you don't understand that because you don't understand the black art of game programming.

 

Just saying. I do not say this as if it is absolutely true. Just trying to say "what if ..."

 

Stop blowing your money on useless crap. I for one craft and send my guys on missions all the time, I buy enough medpacks which hardly have to use and spend 1k every trip to the fleet. I have had enough money to buy my speeder skill atleast 10times over, even gave money to a friend of mine for it, cause he too blew his mula on useless chit.

 

Questing gives you all the armor you could ever need, all the creds you need, and you can do the space missions too for quik cash.

[Nimithril]

It's nice to see that the generic MMO gamer hasn't changed over the years. According to that generic gamer:

 

• The bug (large or small) that bothers him the most must be fixed immediately
  
• Any other bug fixes have obviously taken time away from your bug fix, and developers should be castrated for such heresy
  
• Did I say developers? I meant developer. All bug fixes are worked on one at a time by one person: Luigi. Luigi is legally blind and has an IQ just above that of a tube sock. That's the only explanation for how long bug fixes take
  
• Community managers never respond to player complaints or requests for information
  
• Any responses from community managers are not in the proper thread, do not address the issue at hand in enough detail, are outright lies, or are automated marketing speak
  
• The developers hate the player base, want them to have a terrible gaming experience, and only care about that monthly subscription
  

 

I just wonder if these are gamers who are new to MMOs, or who just have never learned how all this works. You play the game and overlook the bugs. If you can't overlook the bugs, or if you're not having fun because of them, move on and come back when/if the game improves.

 

I lol'd. Very nicely done.

 

And very true, as well.

[Danijal]

I'm not hater enough for "OMG GAME SUKS" or fantboi enough to think it's all good. I love this game but it has serious problems. Fixing these can take a good game to great, or medium game to good, etc.

 

My guild really loves the game, but every night on Mumble we hear game-ruining bugs from each other:

 

• Class quests that can't be turned in
  
• Can't see party or guild chat
  
• Companion or class plotlines completely blocked
  
• Unable to send companions to craft (after it was working fine for a level 40+ player)
  
• Crashes from space combat
  

 

This is not comprehensive, and I know not every bug can be fixed every patch. But an indication that SOME or ONE major bugs are being fixed -- or even being worked on for another patch -- would be worlds better than this.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/page/story/_/swtor/devtracker/ptr-102-patch-notes-r56

 

The current PTR patch notes include such major issues as performing emotes from vehicles. I can't remember seeing one post on the forums about that, compared (for example) to this:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=22485

 

Any forum-goer has a sense what's missing and critical (or at least wanted) in the current game, and Wednesday's patch -- if it's even released Wed, that could be for next week too -- addresses none of it.

 

Why?

 

Have it also occured to you that some bugs take longer time to fix than others? There isnt an instant fix button on all the issues.

[Arodin]

I too would like to see many bugs fixed. But I'm willing to be a little bit patient. These 1.0.x patches are minor releases. I expect a more significant 1.1 patch to come out soon that will contain many more fixes and updates.

 

If it gets to be after January 20 (the game's 1-month anniversary) and we're up to 1.0.5 or something and many significant bugs are still not fixed, that's when I would start getting frustrated.

 

One cannot help but compare TOR to WoW, and Bioware to Blizzard... Blizzard had a couple of smallish patches like this for the first month after WoW's release, then on December 18 they came out with patch 1.2 (ver 1.1 happened during beta). I am expecting something like this for TOR before the end of January...

[Rikalonius]

Except if a real software developer is informed about a bug, they don't sit on it for 6 months doing nothing about it.

 

 

Most of the real big issues were let known in early beta. They just never did anything about it.

 

 

GTN UI was made well and clear it sucked in beta as well.

 

Bioware just doesn't listen to anyone, as they feel it's their game and they'll do whatever they want with it. In reality it's a terrible MMO, decent single player game if it was one. However makes for terrible MMO.

 

 

It's like if they just all of a sudden made Dragon Age into an MMO with very little change.

 

I worked for a computer security company that manufactured an appliance and wrote a 500 Mb program to run it. The bug list was huge, and with ever new iteration something new would hit the "red" list and push other things down. I don't think the "green" list ever got fixed. Now, let’s extrapolate that out to a 19 Gb piece of software. I'm sure they are working as fast as they can, with the manpower available to right these bugs. Some of them are hard pills to swallow, I admit that, but I'd rather be playing now than waiting another 6 months and there'd probably still be bugs.

[Satpolpp]

Betas should be banned. Not one single MMORPG that supposedly have 'extensive feedback from beta' launched relatively smoothly. I suspect it has just become a marketing tool to keep crowds buzzing about launch.

[Rikalonius]

It's nice to see that the generic MMO gamer hasn't changed over the years. According to that generic gamer:

 

• The bug (large or small) that bothers him the most must be fixed immediately
  
• Any other bug fixes have obviously taken time away from your bug fix, and developers should be castrated for such heresy
  
• Did I say developers? I meant developer. All bug fixes are worked on one at a time by one person: Luigi. Luigi is legally blind and has an IQ just above that of a tube sock. That's the only explanation for how long bug fixes take
  
• Community managers never respond to player complaints or requests for information
  
• Any responses from community managers are not in the proper thread, do not address the issue at hand in enough detail, are outright lies, or are automated marketing speak
  
• The developers hate the player base, want them to have a terrible gaming experience, and only care about that monthly subscription
  

 

I just wonder if these are gamers who are new to MMOs, or who just have never learned how all this works. You play the game and overlook the bugs. If you can't overlook the bugs, or if you're not having fun because of them, move on and come back when/if the game improves.

 

I can't praise this satire enough. Well said!

[wrmrstacrdwower]

I'm not hater enough for "OMG GAME SUKS" or fantboi enough to think it's all good. I love this game but it has serious problems. Fixing these can take a good game to great, or medium game to good, etc.

 

My guild really loves the game, but every night on Mumble we hear game-ruining bugs from each other:

 

• Class quests that can't be turned in
  
• Can't see party or guild chat
  
• Companion or class plotlines completely blocked
  
• Unable to send companions to craft (after it was working fine for a level 40+ player)
  
• Crashes from space combat
  

 

This is not comprehensive, and I know not every bug can be fixed every patch. But an indication that SOME or ONE major bugs are being fixed -- or even being worked on for another patch -- would be worlds better than this.

 

http://www.swtorarena.com/page/story/_/swtor/devtracker/ptr-102-patch-notes-r56

 

The current PTR patch notes include such major issues as performing emotes from vehicles. I can't remember seeing one post on the forums about that, compared (for example) to this:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=22485

 

Any forum-goer has a sense what's missing and critical (or at least wanted) in the current game, and Wednesday's patch -- if it's even released Wed, that could be for next week too -- addresses none of it.

 

Why?

Bioware is an experienced single player game developer. They however do not have the full necessary or developed design staff to understand what it takes to make an MMO or how to address issues in it. Add that to the fact that Bioware as a company is slow and unresponsive to complaints with there games, ME and DA have suffered greatly from this, it's easy to see the pattern emerging with SWTOR.

 

Bioware has only ever had to deal with cosmetic issues with the games they produce. And the difference of them being able to handle an MMO over a single player game is showing and has been since beta.

 

Which is too say that the devs on SWTOR are not experienced enough to know what to fix and when to fix. There is no reason some of the current existing issues exist at all.