Mercenary: Bottom of the Barrel?

[Goddeamus]

Is it just me, or does it seem that the Mercenary class gets seriously shafted in this game, especially in PvP? I've been comparing the skills with other classes and even to those of the Powertech, and it just seems everyone else gets the better deal.

 

To begin with, our party skill feels like the most useless of all four. A boost of 5% in endurance is hardly noticeable in your HP, while other people get that 5% in something you'd want like total damage, main stat, or crit.

 

Then there's some major additions to similar skills Sorcerers have. For example their channel skill Force Lightning adds 50% speed reduction without the requirement of a talent. Their 4 second stun Electrocute also has some added damage to it that Electrodart doesn't. Then there's Force Storm which adds a slow affect over the usual Death from Above trait. All this and we don't even get an interrupt either which is not only important for PvP, but also Heroic Modes. As it stands, the only worthwhile tree for Merc seems to be Healing, and even then, one of the talents Cure Mind, which pretty much does the same thing as a Sorcerer's Sith Purity, loses out again in the Sith bonus of also healing your target at the same time.

 

A lot of these would not bother me if I had chosen Powertech over the Merc, who seem to receive a lot more useful skills and talents. A short CD interrupt, 15% passive movement bonus, 15 seconds of 25% additional crit (Explosive Fuel), and over-powered talents such as a guaranteed 8 heat vented (Prototype Cylinder Ventilation), 8 second immunity to roots and stuns plus 30% more movement speed (Hydraulic Overrides), 3 second Grapple snare (No Escape), 30m charge/interrupt/root (Jet Charge) and added speed afterward (Jet Speed), along with the lower heat cost on the majority of their moves basically makes them dominate in everything they do. And seeing as how you can't really kite in this game, range is not even an issue, since it's easy to get to the 4-10m range with all your added speed plus the fact that caster's best skills require you to stand still.

 

The only suggestions I can think of to fix the skill problem with Mercenaries is to make their class focus more on kiting by allowing them to cast and channel while moving. This way you can make some room after an ambush from a stealth unit that knocks you down and run away firing Unload, making the added 2 second slow from the talent worthwhile. It would also lessen the mass interrupting on your cast shots. All the other classes have their gimmick, such as Warrior types jumping at you, and Agents taking cover or stealthing, so this would seem fair as a Mercenary boon. Another good idea would be if the talent Afterburners instead made one of your missiles knock the enemy back instead of relying on a close range Rocket Punch. Slows should also last longer, considering that other classes can apply them for up to 8 seconds or more. The Hunter class in World of Warcraft was done pretty well in the kiting department in this respect, and for a game that seems like a near replica of WoW, you might as well follow in those footsteps on this matter as well.

 

I'm sure I'm leaving other things that seem unfair out, so feel free to add anything I overlooked. If nothing is changed, I fear I'm going to end up forever quitting on my Mercenary and focusing on alternate characters instead. I chose the class simply because I love dual-wielding in everything, and it would be a shame to shun such a cool looking class that could've had a lot more potential, fun factor and usefulness. If you agree with me, then please keep bumping this up, so hopefully Bioware will notice our pleas and do something about it.

[Rimbaldo]

I haven't PvPed much as of yet, but BioWare's priorities in class design are pretty flawed across the board. They seem to think direct damage types don't need any utility aside from long cooldown single target CCs, whereas the tank variants are getting all kinds of neat toys. My friend who plays a Marauder complains just as much as I do that he made the wrong choice at level 10; Juggernauts do marginally less damage and have way more utility in much the same way a Powertech compares to a Mercenary at present.

 

I don't really know what the remedy is, though. A lot of people say they're rerolling from Merc to Powertech, but it seems to me that there are better PvP classes than Powertech if you're willing to relevel again simply for the sake of PvP effectiveness.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[Hederick]

Is it just me, or does it seem that the Mercenary class gets seriously shafted in this game, especially in PvP? I've been comparing the skills with other classes and even to those of the Powertech, and it just seems everyone else gets the better deal.

 

To begin with, our party skill feels like the most useless of all four. A boost of 5% in endurance is hardly noticeable in your HP, while other people get that 5% in something you'd want like total damage, main stat, or crit.

 

Then there's some major additions to similar skills Sorcerers have. For example their channel skill Force Lightning adds 50% speed reduction without the requirement of a talent. Their 4 second stun Electrocute also has some added damage to it that Electrodart doesn't. Then there's Force Storm which adds a slow affect over the usual Death from Above trait. All this and we don't even get an interrupt either which is not only important for PvP, but also Heroic Modes. As it stands, the only worthwhile tree for Merc seems to be Healing, and even then, one of the talents Cure Mind, which pretty much does the same thing as a Sorcerer's Sith Purity, loses out again in the Sith bonus of also healing your target at the same time.

 

A lot of these would not bother me if I had chosen Powertech over the Merc, who seem to receive a lot more useful skills and talents. A short CD interrupt, 15% passive movement bonus, 15 seconds of 25% additional crit (Explosive Fuel), and over-powered talents such as a guaranteed 8 heat vented (Prototype Cylinder Ventilation), 8 second immunity to roots and stuns plus 30% more movement speed (Hydraulic Overrides), 3 second Grapple snare (No Escape), 30m charge/interrupt/root (Jet Charge) and added speed afterward (Jet Speed), along with the lower heat cost on the majority of their moves basically makes them dominate in everything they do. And seeing as how you can't really kite in this game, range is not even an issue, since it's easy to get to the 4-10m range with all your added speed plus the fact that caster's best skills require you to stand still.

 

The only suggestions I can think of to fix the skill problem with Mercenaries is to make their class focus more on kiting by allowing them to cast and channel while moving. This way you can make some room after an ambush from a stealth unit that knocks you down and run away firing Unload, making the added 2 second slow from the talent worthwhile. It would also lessen the mass interrupting on your cast shots. All the other classes have their gimmick, such as Warrior types jumping at you, and Agents taking cover or stealthing, so this would seem fair as a Mercenary boon. Another good idea would be if the talent Afterburners instead made one of your missiles knock the enemy back instead of relying on a close range Rocket Punch. Slows should also last longer, considering that other classes can apply them for up to 8 seconds or more. The Hunter class in World of Warcraft was done pretty well in the kiting department in this respect, and for a game that seems like a near replica of WoW, you might as well follow in those footsteps on this matter as well.

 

I'm sure I'm leaving other things that seem unfair out, so feel free to add anything I overlooked. If nothing is changed, I fear I'm going to end up forever quitting on my Mercenary and focusing on alternate characters instead. I chose the class simply because I love dual-wielding in everything, and it would be a shame to shun such a cool looking class that could've had a lot more potential, fun factor and usefulness. If you agree with me, then please keep bumping this up, so hopefully Bioware will notice our pleas and do something about it.

 

I would first like to thank u for taking the time to write this post. I would like to say that please do not mention wow in these forums. Also right now the game has been out for what 2 3 weeks give it time People recommendations are good but to much can be very bad. Let Bioware work this out give them time to put in here first major patch then let's get to asking for changes.

[Desrin]

TRACER MISSILE SPAM -- theres your tactic

[Angryorc]

We lack mobility and defensive cooldowns.. sure.

 

We're like static turrets, sure.

 

But at the same time we have pretty decent burst.

 

I'm dinging level 50 and rank 40 tonight and unless outnumbered greatly or facing good sorcs / sins, doing pretty well.

 

I would on the other hand like some more synergy between the talent trees.

 

Be able to use the sylinder in conjunction with the talents to make it snare your target would be nice.

 

Mercs are set in stone as what abilities to use, not even a point to train all abilities during the leveling time.

 

A way to dump heat, (I've said this before..) Rapid Shots should remove 3-4-ish heat pet shot.

 

And we're lacking really hard in the run speed section too.

 

But all in all, spamming some tracers, heatseekers and railshot kills most people and makes good geared healers run to LoS ^^

[zrozilacx]

Removing the cast time on Concussion Missile and giving an on demand snare would go a long way for Mercs. As it is right now I feel like an Elemental Shaman who doesn't use shock spells.

[Old-Man-George]

When it comes to PVE this class is fine, better then fine.

 

It all comes down to how you view PVP. Hardcore players will see the flaws in the class and shy away, while the casual will make do. It's hardly broken if you just want to muck about with some friends in a war zone. Once you get serious though that's when you roll another class.

 

Or you can wait to see if they makes changes to the Pyro tree at some point. Either way if you are seriously into PVP you already have another class rolling by now.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Old-Man-George

[Albinosmurf]

I would first like to thank u for taking the time to write this post. I would like to say that please do not mention wow in these forums. Also right now the game has been out for what 2 3 weeks give it time People recommendations are good but to much can be very bad. Let Bioware work this out give them time to put in here first major patch then let's get to asking for changes.

 

Bioware needs good contructive feedback at all times. Not just after their first patch. Also as wow is the best mmo on the market it's good game to compare with swtor so it can improve.

 

As to the OP, pyrotech has a great slow talented in the second tier of the tree. As well as venting heat when stunned ect in that tree.

[AndrosX]

Bioware could surely use constructive criticism.

It's up to us to keep it constructive, it's up to them to listen and, when time allows it, go check our complaints to see if we're right and eventually address the problem.

I understand there are priorities and our CC etc may not be at the top of the list and they should understand this kind of things need to be taken care of and not in six months or one year (which is what happened in other games).

[AilsaH]

Maybe it's just me, but I think that if we could fire off our attacks on the move we would be the most OP'd class in the game. We do a LOT of damage (Arsenal spec) but at the cost of having to stand still.

[BradFett]

Well, Arsenal is kinda oped in pve. Especially when you run with Mako geared up. However, in pvp... we suck. 1v1 vs an "okay" melee player = dead merc. Sad but true.

 

I find myself here at 50 about to respec to pyro.

[Bejita]

To be usefull as a merc you are basically stuck with a healing/dps hybrid spec, i dont remember the name of the guy who showed us all the spec but basically it gets tracer missile and kolto shell and all the nice healing talents, as this spec you basically do what you do with a full arsenal spec which is just spam tracer missle non stop, BUT this spec also has access to all the great support tools whill still being able to pressure people with tracer missle Edited January 3, 2012 by Bejita

[JaxinRiens]

This game is not balanced around 1v1.

 

In pvp 2 heal spec'd mercs can be a complete pain in the butt to kill. Just like 2 heal spec commandos. I have seen 3 hold a point in alderaan against 7 of the opposing team because the ONLY way to kill them is to interrupt the heal chains and area cc.

 

Arsenal mercs are great when supported also.

 

Imagine that class synergy between classes. Arsenal Merc + Immortal Juggernaut = Amazing parring. The jug can keep the opponents completley debuffed choke one target whle snaring the rest for the merc to DFA and Sweeping blaster them.

[Frontplayer]

This game is not balanced around 1v1.

 

WoW! (and I don´t mean the game)

 

This didn´t take long until this completely rediculous conclusion is drawn. It´s not working...so it´s supposed to be that way. If that were the case the question why this specific class has such great problems in this department and why it wasn not labeled PvP cripple from the beginning. Would´ve spared many people a lot of time and grief if they had known.

 

So if your conclusion is correct. And it is working as intended the ultimate consequence will be that there will be no Mercs around in the long run. Cos the Powertech can just DPS as well plus everythingelse the merc lacks.

 

So if I have the choice between:

 

a) Merc

 

- bad PvP utility and huge lack of damage in PvP while under pressure.

- great PvE DPS

- great healer (if you are into that)

 

 

b) Powertech

 

- great PvP utility and loads more damage in PvP even while beeing on the move/pressure

- great PvE DPS

- great tank.

 

tough choice.

[pryt]

I'm playing an Arsenal Merc and a Powertech Advanced Prototype, both still leveling up but I'm having fun with both in PVP.

 

The AP is more the: "I've chosen you and I destroy you now, no matter if you run or come close." type of PVP. It's a nice hybrid which is devastating in melee. Depending on situation you have a few tools to make the best out of it, but there are no general strategies. It's a char capable of coming around solo quite fine.

 

 

The Arsenal Merc on the other hand, is a PVP char that relies on a group. Think of it as the artillery behind the lines that shells death upon the enemy. If you can pick a target, use your tracer missiles to setup heat signatures to use those skills that rely on them, if are not disturbed further, being able to put in some AOE effects from time to time and destroy one target after the other -> you're fine. But you NEED players that support you, like a healer and someone taking care of you if someone is coming close. So far, an ignored Arsenal Merc is a deadly Merc, one or two people trying to take you out of the game = you're quite lost. It's absolutely not the "I'm the s0l0 r0xx0r pwning you all" type.

 

 

We had a blast yesterday in Voidstar, we were 3 Arsenal mercs, 1 good sorc healer and 3 melee Sith that kept the others busy (yes, we were only 7), and we simply destroyed the Republic players. None of them had more than 70k dmg dealed, except one scoundrel, but this was stopped as we picked him first whenever he appeared again. They didn't know where to go first or what to do. It was: target selected, target destroyed. Was a wonderful team play experience. Which doesn't happen often, but if people play together -> damn! Go for it.

 

 

Additional, I'm playing both as a Glass Cannon, means: More Aim than Endurance. I could boost my survivability a lot if I would switch to Endurance gear, but I'm not willing, so I die even faster than necessary, but it's my choice.

Edited January 3, 2012 by pryt

[Rimbaldo]

I agree with the above assessment. Arsenal can still be fun to play when you're palling around by yourself, if a bit annoying. The downside is that you will get absolutely destroyed by organized groups who focus fire you, but hey, if it's you and a bunch of randoms vs. an organized group then you're probably going to get stomped regardless of what class you play. Edited January 3, 2012 by Rimbaldo

[Irishbrewed]

Can't stress this enough, pure ranged classes priority abilities (hard hitters) will require a cast time. Plain and simple. If you want to be mobile 100% of the time, then merc is a bad choice for you. We have plenty to do on the move, but when we are going for a kill we have to cast. Just nature of the beast. If I could run around and fire off tracer missiles, that would be insanely overpowered. Yes Powertech is more mobile but they have there limitations as well as frustrations. Same goes for every class, it's part of the balancing game. SWTOR isn't perfectly balanced but there are no glaring issues with the merc. I would say warriors are a little gimped but that's about it......

 

Only real thing that puzzles me is:

why do the sorcerers get a speed boost? Ranged class with a run speed boost....you can't be serious?

[Frontplayer]

Can't stress this enough, pure ranged classes priority abilities (hard hitters) will require a cast time. Plain and simple. If you want to be mobile 100% of the time, then merc is a bad choice for you. We have plenty to do on the move, but when we are going for a kill we have to cast. Just nature of the beast. If I could run around and fire off tracer missiles, that would be insanely overpowered. Yes Powertech is more mobile but they have there limitations as well as frustrations. Same goes for every class, it's part of the balancing game. SWTOR isn't perfectly balanced but there are no glaring issues with the merc. I would say warriors are a little gimped but that's about it......

 

Only real thing that puzzles me is:

why do the sorcerers get a speed boost? Ranged class with a run speed boost....you can't be serious?

 

The Merc doesn´t have any real hard hitters that would make him stand out.

 

Unload only gets some decent buffs from arsenal. Pyro has a naked unload wich is rather meager. Only upside is the railshot reset. Also unload gets eaily pushed back to the point that it deal almost no damage. Same goes for power shot. It deals decent damage but again...it doesn´t stand out. The whole Pyro tree is constructed around the DoTs, Thermal Detonator and all and foremost the Railshot. And the abilities that are supposed to reset our railshot are suicide.

 

Also Powershot itself is a joke compared to flame burst.

 

I repeat myslef over and over again.

 

Why do I not like power shot? (talking about untalented)

 

a) damage is not that great, it´s purpose is to reset the railshot

 

b) cast time that can be pushed back into oblivion

 

c) and rediculously high heat cost

 

30% chance to reset on a 25 heat cast time ability is plain bollox. It´s unpractical.

 

 

A sollution would be to let pyrotyech talents reduce missle blast heat generation to 16 and give it 30% chance to reset railshot. It doesn´t have as much damage as flame burst but that is very well warranted due to the fact that it is a ranged instant ability.

[Irishbrewed]

The Merc doesn´t have any real hard hitters that would make him stand out.

 

Unload only gets some decent buffs from arsenal. Pyro has a naked unload wich is rather meager. Only upside is the railshot reset. Also unload gets eaily pushed back to the point that it deal almost no damage. Same goes for power shot. It deals decent damage but again...it doesn´t stand out. The whole Pyro tree is constructed around the DoTs, Thermal Detonator and all and foremost the Railshot. And the abilities that are supposed to reset our railshot are suicide.

 

Also Powershot itself is a joke compared to flame burst.

 

I repeat myslef over and over again.

 

Why do I not like power shot? (talking about untalented)

 

a) damage is not that great, it´s purpose is to reset the railshot

 

b) cast time that can be pushed back into oblivion

 

c) and rediculously high heat cost

 

30% chance to reset on a 25 heat cast time ability is plain bollox. It´s unpractical.

 

 

A sollution would be to let pyrotyech talents reduce missle blast heat generation to 16 and give it 30% chance to reset railshot. It doesn´t have as much damage as flame burst but that is very well warranted due to the fact that it is a ranged instant ability.

 

I was speaking from an arsenal spec, tracer missle coupled with unload pours out comparable DMg much like any others classes big hitters in the game. As for pyro, it is not a burst class, it's a dot class. It does seem to need some heat tweaking but I've only played with it shortly so not an expert on it at all. But it is a more mobile spec but it doesn't put out pressure as fast as ars. That being said a good pyro can wreak havoc in a wz, with the ability to dot every thing up then with rs resets you can really be a nuisance to the opposition...

 

I also would like to remind everyone we have cure and heals... This is something not everyone gets and along with stealth scan we come with a lot of added utility. Which IMO adds to the overall enjoyment of the class...

Edited January 3, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[Gadrak]

the cast on the move thing was just a suggestion,and anyway it must be a CD that can be used once every 2-3 min for 10 secs

 

we could just make the concussion missile an instant cast,that way we could stop the melee and get some open space

 

and yes ranged class requires a cast time,unfortunately our damage even if is good is not comparable to those of the other ranged classes,a sniper can double my damage everyday,i understand that he is supposed to be a squishy assasination class,but with the force barrier and his portable cover i can barely scratch him

 

the only limitation of being a powertech is that you cant heal,as PT you have electro dart with 50 CD,Carbonite that is an AOE stun with 45 sec cd,grapple that with no escape roots you for 4 seconds,and jetcharge that can also stun you for 4 seconds

 

not to mention that our railshot is a joke compared to theirs,i have to land 5 tracer missiles to have a 25% more powerful railshot,while the AP railshot has 9% more damage ignores 60% of the enemy armor and can autocrit after a rocket punch or a retractor blade

 

i actually own a 50 champion mercenary,even if i perform great with my team aid,alone im an useless piece of trash,on the very moment someone gets the jump on me,or im on a high platform or im dead.

[Irishbrewed]

the cast on the move thing was just a suggestion,and anyway it must be a CD that can be used once every 2-3 min for 10 secs

 

we could just make the concussion missile an instant cast,that way we could stop the melee and get some open space

 

and yes ranged class requires a cast time,unfortunately our damage even if is good is not comparable to those of the other ranged classes,a sniper can double my damage everyday,i understand that he is supposed to be a squishy assasination class,but with the force barrier and his portable cover i can barely scratch him

 

the only limitation of being a powertech is that you cant heal,as PT you have electro dart with 50 CD,Carbonite that is an AOE stun with 45 sec cd,grapple that with no escape roots you for 4 seconds,and jetcharge that can also stun you for 4 seconds

 

not to mention that our railshot is a joke compared to theirs,i have to land 5 tracer missiles to have a 25% more powerful railshot,while the AP railshot has 9% more damage ignores 60% of the enemy armor and can autocrit after a rocket punch or a retractor blade

 

i actually own a 50 champion mercenary,even if i perform great with my team aid,alone im an useless piece of trash,on the very moment someone gets the jump on me,or im on a high platform or im dead.

 

Don't take this wrong but this is your personal experience. I do not have this expirence. Yeah sure if a melee somehow gets the jump on me I am obviously at a disadvantage. As we should be.But I never feels as if I don't have a fighting chance and more often then not I win. I have more the enough knock backs/ stuns to roll a melee, there is no dead zone and I can hit them just as hard when there on me. It takes practice and twitch skill, also knowing the enemy and how to counter them. You'll get better at it, don't give up. It's not the merc tho, it's you.

[Atsaka]

If you are a lvl 50 full champion merc and you are having troubles in pvp 1v1 or otherwise then you just arent doing something right. Jedi give me the most trouble as they have a whole slew of tools to survive. But in my opinion most of the lopsidedness of talents is made up for by the fact that it doesnt matter... Im simply gonna roflstomp anything that crosses my path. I can chain attacks that hit as low as 1700 but as high as 4992 (record so far and god dammit if i cant wait till i see that first 5k medal). Unless im playing my merc wrong i dont want to kite...i dont want to hide...i want to get in your face and take it off your head.

 

edit to say: I feel like if I had an instant cast cc I would be superior to any other class.

 

 

Guy - 50 Mercenary - Jedi Covenant

Edited January 3, 2012 by Atsaka

[Gadrak]

Don't take this wrong but this is your personal experience. I do not have this expirence. Yeah sure if a melee somehow gets the jump on me I am obviously at a disadvantage. As we should be.But I never feels as if I don't have a fighting chance and more often then not I win. I have more the enough knock backs/ stuns to roll a melee, there is no dead zone and I can hit them just as hard when there on me. It takes practice and twitch skill, also knowing the enemy and how to counter them. You'll get better at it, don't give up. It's not the merc tho, it's you.

 

if an enemy allows you to cast while he has you on melee you are facing scrubs,im not the pros of the pros,but i can assure you that i know how to use my class to some extent.

 

to compete with powertechs we need a better kiting ability(2 talent points to get a kite that activates on a channel effect for only 2 seconds is just silly) or an additional CC,if not we are going to be a group friendly class for th eternity,because if someone is still not having much trouble is because there are not a lot of players that mastered to use their class properly,i can handle this kind of players,but on the very moment that im facing someone who knows what he is doing it's over.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Gadrak

[ExiledPunk]

umm no, i always hit top of my damage chart in pvp and i am doing the objectives at the same time, get a good healer and bounty hunter will take down anyone fast.

 

and you do have an instant cast cc, just takes some putting 2 and 2 together, look at what skill you got at lvl 50 and think.

Edited January 3, 2012 by ExiledPunk

[Gadrak]

i top the DPS chart a lot of time,but that is because im level 50 and im fully champion equipped,and a lot of people out there arent 50 or dont have my same gear

 

if you a referring to powersurge i feel that is unlikely having a CC alternative every 2 mins,plus on duel the combo with concussion is useless,after landing the aoe knockback and the electro dart the resolve bar of the enemy gets filled and i cant cc anymore,granting him the time to finish me off

 

if you read one my previous posts i alredy talked about this