You do realize that huge sections of the stock SWTOR UI are actually descended from WoW UI mods, right? The SWTOR developers actually incorporated QuestHelper, which was considered to be a major EZ-Mode addon when it was new. Floating combat text was also an addon originally. Hell, having more than the bars at the bottom was originally part of CosmosUI around launch, wasn't it? So the SWTOR Dev team incorporated UI conventions that were the direct result of WoW addons. Crowd-sourcing UI development actually makes perfect sense from pretty much any angle. So yes, I think people like you are 100% mistaken. You are *already* playing with what amounts to a modded UI and you don't even realize it. The arbitrary line in the sand you've drawn is completely meaningless.

I suppose not Guided, but I still think the entire Anti-Addon campaign is nothing but a frothy combination of fear-mongering and personal attacks.

1) You said it in an insulting way. You meant it as an insult and anybody could see that. 2) It's contextually obvious that "clicking" is not generally considered skillful play in an MMORPG. I wouldn't consider being called a "clicker" an insult at the bus stop, but in this context it is.

Nah, he'll just use more exclamation marks and call you a keyboard turner or something.

Having the UI be the primary enemy is clearly the best way to show who's good at the game.

Honestly, why not just have an addon tab right in the client? This might be a little tricky from a software engineering perspective, but Civ5 managed to do it.

Because the sort of people who ask for this kind of thing are simply wanting a perfect solution that can't exist. They want to eradicate all so-called "e-peening" but that can't really be done. They dream of an MMORPG where a certain personality type is somehow systematically rendered impossible, but it can't really be done without a rogue brain surgeon in the employ of Bioware jumping through people's windows. With full metering an "e-peener" at least has to put up or shut up. This sort of behavior is only going to get worse without access to objective data. Now it'll be a contest of pure boasting and lying.

But you kinda see my point, right? Private-only combat logs is one of those devil's compromises where it's worse than either pole. No combat logging isn't my thing, but at least it's a global and coherent concept. Full combat logging is obviously workable ( unless people are going to claim that the biggest MMO in the world somehow doesn't "work." ) Private logging is a terrible compromise that provides far more drama than it prevents. I would, for instance, just keep breaking CC and blaming it on other people. Too funny not to. Without logging there is simply no expectation of knowing who broke CC unless you saw it, but with private logging the potential for drama is quite high. I could, for instance, paste my private log but not until after editing out the part where I broke the CC. And no matter what these "Captain Perception" superhero types say I guarantee I could break CC without getting caught in a 16 man raid. Because they apparently buy into the "e-peener" argument.

People keep acting like you have to be a rocket scientist or something to go grab a mod.

Truga, won't the private logs already cause the highlighted part to happen? I think you keep forgetting that we're talking about Private vs Public. Log parsing is already confirmed. So 90% of that difficulty inflation will already occur. People will already be able to use the absolute best rotations and builds pretty easily. The only difference with private logs is that someone can't be scrutinized by the rest of their group. This will make the content slightly harder in a sense, but it will mostly just protect people from performance quotas. I still maintain that deliberate slackers are going to be the primary beneficiaries of private logs. People that are genuinely awful will probably give themselves away, but people who know how to look like they're doing something when they're really just hitting a few keys and reading a book will be very hard to detect.

I already know I'm just going to get a bunch of "Don't care" responses, but there is zero chance I'm coming back until I can know my group's DPS/HPS/Interrupts/CCbreaks etc *Objectively.* I don't care to use guessworky methods to determine when someone is slacking in my group. I can already play Rift, WoW, or any number of other games where this isn't necessary. Have fun with your private-log paradise, but I'm out until I get word that this isn't the direction they're going. Hopefully losing people like me works out for them in the end. Maybe some kind of new MMORPG where people roll dozens of alts and giggle every time they wipe on a boss can be born from this. I'm incredibly, staggeringly, unimaginably skeptical that this is the case, but we'll see.

Nah, the game is apparently still under NDA

This is pretty unlikely unless we have huge amounts of downtime. What you're talking about is normal maintenance.

So again, if most people are fine with combat logs being private, why not take Devorin's suggestion and allow us to voluntarily make ours public? This "vast majority" of players will surely be glad to play with private logs and in no way be suspicious of people who leave their logs private. We all know why. It's because the people that want private combat logs are actually a vocal forum minority.

So people wouldn't have complained on the forums for games they didn't like back when you were a kid? Just because forums didn't exist back then doesn't mean you get a blank check to assume they would have been better.

Nah, it means what it means. It's pretty obvious that Bioware has bought into their fearmongering.

Why did *you* post?

See how "official" you feel that my sig link is. Up to you.

Nah, I'm pretty sure they're gonna do private combat logs. They're that kind of retarded.

What if I have 15 copilots?

But of course this is absurd. What they earn is their reward. DPS is more like work completed. This is more like asking if I have a right to know that my copilot is awake.

Oh, so another player can never impact my chance of success during a raid? That's pretty crazy that Bioware managed to pull that off. I wonder how they did it?

No, but the size of your check doesn't directly impact my ability to earn a living. If we're dual proprietors I'd have the right, and the legal ability, to know how much you were paying yourself.

1) They're using a really terrible build because they like it for a non min/max reason. 2) They're not really paying much attention but don't want to be called on it. They figure they'll lay low and eventually the rest of the group will manage to carry them. 3) The raid leader is really angry when asking them.

The problem here is what has become known as "self-reportage bias." Even when assured that the results are completely anonymous, guys tend to exaggerate. You'd think it would be the opposite. That they'd deliberately underestimate the size of their *****es in order to skew down the average size to which they would then compare themselves more favorably. Self-reportage bias is a real phenomenon and has been observed in numerous surveys on everything from drinking habits to stated income. In fact, a whole school of statistical analysis has developed on how to adjust for this bias. http://www.alt*****.com/news/average_size.shtml The fact that you're naive enough to think that people don't lie about the size of their *****es is about all that needs to be said about your argument. Keep insulting my social skills though. Having to resort to that makes your argument work somehow I'm sure.