As you already said, Ilum is not more than a warzone, really. For real open world PvP you would have to redo all the planets, actually, lemme rephrase.. redo the whole game. I think getting Ilum to work is possible.. easily possible. It requires maybe 2 month work to fix the zone and get it all in, then another month testing, but its doable. And if they would NOW tell everyone what they do in Ilum, I even think SOME PvP players would wait to see what they can bring on. But if they dont start talking now I can only see tons of unsubs... this game isn't viable for PvPers without a working Ilum, and they don't talk about possible enhancements. They even make players think that Ilum is working as intended and fine as it is. I am really wondering, WHEN will companies understand that constant dev chattering, even if wrong, is still better than not saying anything? If someone at Bioware would come here and state that they, too, think Ilum is crap and it will be fixed and be fantastic, I bet you they will retain a good chunk of subs. Of course, there needs to be some meat to that, details, and they would have to deliver later.

So lets go for the glorified battleground FIRST and then when the client is ready drop the restrictions for players? I'd much rather have them do something thats possible than chasing clouds in the sky.

I do not believe that. I think it can be done, but you can't implement PvP like you implement PvE, like, just put in content and it works. For PvP you need to draw people in, you need a reason for them to be there. And it shouldn't just be rewards, it should be "normal" for them to participate in PvP. Yes they need the choice to not play PvP if they do not like it... however: NOT participating in PvP should be a decision. Currently by default you will never see an enemy player. That is bad. It would be bad if you HAD to do PvP to be able to do PvE, same the other way around. But you need small cross over incentives... like... Suceeding in PvP makes you a LITTLE bit better in PvE.. not much, not that much that you NEED it. Just a little nagging.. hey, I COULD be better if we had Ilum... you know.. 0.5% more damage... hm.. its not much.. but.. lets go Ilum 15 mins before the raid. Something like that. Same for PvE... imagine doing a heroic Flashpoint would also give you a 5% chance to get a PvP bag. Hm... 5% is not much... but I have done the daily, i have done the weekly... I can go on grinding PvP BGs... or maybe.. do a heroic FP? There is just some stuff missing in SWTOR, the rewards section is a little out of whack.

It is foolproof. For the player that needs the win. Next time the other player gets the win. Not ALL of them are quitting the game.

Like who for example? The guys they have employed? Or who do you mean? I'd rather have them listen to good ideas, no matter who they are from. Or copy ideas from another game, if they have to. If a good idea comes from a 10 year old, it's still a good idea.

Well, its instanced.. so you could have 200 Ilum instances. They need to cut it down to 20 vs 20 maximum until they fix the client. That would also help a lot with faction imbalance, they could pair a few players with their companions vs. real enemies, so they can multiply the lesser factions numbers by 6, that would fix nearly all imbalances. But yes, additional battleground all over the planets is a good idea, however I'd much rather fix the first before they implement more crap. If Ilum is fixed and working and fun, I am sure we can copy the idea over to different planets and different PvP battlegrounds.

Well its not so much about details of implementation, I think they need to get the BIG picture of PvPing before that. Also I am sure there are tons of 14 year old that have seen enough good PvP to be able to create a better system than Ilum currently is.

First.. this is what we know about the coming changes... and those posts are contradicting: So what exactly are we supposed to be getting? A quitter debuff? (however its not sanctioned behaviour? Hu?) An AFK voting system? Rewards for winning? No rewards for winning but for objectives? Both? Now, before you go and ruin the game by doing stuff that does not work, could someone of your team that KNOWS what is coming (one of the two above obviously does not know) and explain it to us, so we can get a meaningful discussion going here? You said its OUR game, so please talk to US before you do major changes that can range from creating nice PvP to ruining PvP for everyone. Also.. please come here and tell us about Ilum. What are you going to do in Ilum? ------------------------------------------------------------- Here my personal thoughts about Ilum: I think I can safely say Ilum is terminally broken without any big objections, right? From the game design standpoint: - Ilum is much too large for the players that can actually participate (in the order of 5x too large) - Ilum is completely static, so there is no way to balance anything like NPCs - Objectives in Ilum are not meaningful - If there arent enemy players, Ilum is DEAD. There is no way to hurt the enemy other than collecting crates (no fun). Nothing to see or do. - You can not make the enemy come to Ilum, cause they do not care what you do there - Ilum is far away and you cannot actually make your character live there, its not a hub, it doesnt have all the accesses readily available (bank, mail, repair, travel, PvP quests, FP quests, FP access, trainers) - Everytime you do PvP in Ilum, go to a WZ in between and your loading screen takes too long, you end up in imperial fleet.. again. - Ilum should be the MAIN location for PvPing. It should be your main focus for fixing PvP. All true PvPers should constantly be around or in Ilum. Why arent they? PvE players are at the fleet.. fine. But why are PvPers there as well? And here some of my solutions: - From the fleet there should be a direct teleport to the Ilum Base, and back. Available ANYTIME. - PvPers should be incentived to LOG OUT in Ilum. For example, create a fortress in the middle of the fighting area. Who owns the fortress has access to a newly designed single player flashpoint that gives PvP rewards. - Make the bases be full featured PvP and PvE quest hubs like imperial fleet. There should be no reason to visit imperial fleet anymore or the rep equivalent. - What happens in Ilum has to affect anyone, anywhere. Build incentive to go to Ilum. Yes, its instanced, thats bad. So how about this: The faction that lost the most cities in the last 60 minutes will get a -2% Damage and Heal debuff, unless they have an Ilum Hero Buff that they get by fighting in Ilum for a few mins. Example. There are better ideas, I am sure. Have players want to be in Ilum, and if only for short periods of time. - Cut Ilum down in size! Two bases, a big "city" in the middle, thats it. Cut down useless wastelands. Remove the huge obstacles in Ilum everywhere and the massive mountains. Make it accessible. Doesnt have to be a city, can be a fortress, whatever. A meaningful objective. If you own the fortress, your base can be destroyed. If you do not own the fortress, your base is safe. Make it an attack and defend game. - Allow sneaky ways to get objectives. Go down and sneak into the back entrance, plant a bomb, blow it up... a few people inside the fortress die. (Of course tell them there is someone sneaking in before that). Create stuff that SINGLE players can do alone, create objectives that require groups or operations. - Control the amount of people in Ilum. If the enemy has less players, allow them to bring their companions. ALL OF THEM, at the same time. This also fixes the issues of the worthless equipping of companions. If someone is alone in Ilum and there are ten enemies, let him take out his 6 companions and fight with them. TLDR: Make Ilum THE place for PvPers. All PvPers should be in Ilum, all the time. If they aren't, something is wrong. Hope to have a nice discussion here, HOPEFULLY with some DEV comment, because all PvPers are raging in the forum, but there is no real response on what is really happening with PvP in SWTOR. We need a DEV blog filled up with everything coming for PvP in the next time, remember that for many of us this either makes or breaks SWTOR.

Because players do EXACTLY what will get them rewards, ALL THE TIME. If grabbing and passing a ball will give them points, then there is no reason whatsoever to actually fight. There will be premades grabbing the ball, going back to their goal line and passing the ball 100 times per minute. And thats all they will be doing. Same with what Bioware is actually trying right now... if WINNING will not be part of whatever is needed to get rewards, then winning will not happen anymore. Why try to win, if it doesnt matter? For meanignful PvP you need a conflict, you need conflicting objectives. Even Bioware isnt getting that... if one team can get their objectives AND the other team can get their objectives AT THE SAME TIME, then thats what they will be doing.

Yes we all have it. No there wont be a penalty in 1.2. And yes it has to be fixed.

They arent dropping all quests, they are changing them, so lets just WAIT for what they do. They are supposed to put in tons of new medals so dont worry, there will be enough medals for you to achieve. Now if only they would do something about the leavers (other than the guys that leave for win queue hopping).

There is no reason to have an AFK vote kick system, because there arent any AFKers, really. Without a deserter buff, there wont be any in the future either, cause they will just quit the BG and queue up for the next. I dont get the sense of an AFK vote kick at this time. We have a problem with leavers, and this isnt gonna fix it.

LOL I am not talking about giving a reward for kicking someone... I am talking about WHAT do we get out of the AFK voting system, we do not need it for anything. What is its advantage? We call it the risk/reward comparison... is the reward worth the risk?

An AFKer vote kick system would be a good idea if we had a problem with lots of AFKers.. but we don't. And if they arent doing a deserter buff, there wont be any AFKers in the future either, cause WHY go AFK, if you can just leave and queue for another game? So WHY exactly do we have to accept the risk of an AFK vote system that certainly will get abused at some point in time, if we have no reward for using it?

What you posted does not work, but I am quite sure it is better than what we will be really getting.

The changes do not contain enough details to say what will happen. If they really do not penalize leaving a BG, then they will not fix the leaver issue. They will fix PART of the leaver issue as the incentive goes down, however that will not be enough to cover the leaving of fully equipped players. If they remove the daily quest that involves winning, I am pretty sure PvP will die for every player that likes PvP for the fun of it. I hope the new daily quest objectives are ADDED and do not replace the current daily. The new medals will lead to players having endgame equipment much sooner, this will be a bad change overall. Also it leads to objective trading and players that selfishly try to achieve everything for their daily while not caring about winning or teammates. The patch is like all the other Bioware patches.... TOO little.. TOO late. It wont address leavers, so it wont matter to me.

Another question: If I click players on screen with my mousepointer, most of the time nothing happens. Anyone have the same?

I would bet my *** that after the patch the quickest way to grind T3 gear will be to zerg the BG until the time runs out. I just hope it wont be a huge objective trading zergfest.

Ya thx I know how it works. That doesnt have anything to do with having a big cluster of players where you dont see **** and then you try to target the ballcarrier and cant, and then when you finally tab through you see a white bar and have no idea for long how he is immune or if he still is in a stun. Unless you learn all the small icons and easily recognize a stun from the 1 million icons. And even if you did, the normal player will not even get the resolve part, let alone see the stun. The system has to be clearly visible for ALL players, not just a selected few, currently the rest just ignores it because there is no way to tell what is happening.

You just found out why the new system will not work like Bioware thinks it will and will only reduce the quitters by some percentage, but not nearly enough. Anyway, they will learn soon and fix it afterwards, hopefully its not too late for the game by then.

Its not the problem that it is too complicated... the problem is that it is presented very very bad. It doesn't matter how much resolve which stun gives... because its not in your hands anyway... you just watch your resolve bar fill up. We dont really need to change that, really, it just doesn't matter how much resolve which stun gives as long as its in the ballpark. It would not even have to be a 100% percent counter, 1-10 would be enough of a range for all purposes. The problem is: - People (in the middle of combat) do not see when the resolve bar is full vs. almost full - People do not see if a certain target is now immune to CC or just barely full resolve - People do not see if they are immune or not (its maybe a strong guess) - People do not see how long the immunity lasts - People can not predict how long it takes for resolve to go away And because the UI is so bad, people will never understand what is happening. It needs to be clear, and there should be the option to effectively USE the system... which currently you can not do. So if anything, my idea would make it more complicated because people would be able to save up resolve for later, players would have to be careful WHEN to fill the enemies resolve up or when to wait. The current system is bad, not because of complexity, but because of bad game and very bad UI design. There needs to be a visual when you reach immunity, and there needs to be a counter somewhere showing how long it lasts.. as a bare minimum. I like the idea of having the person enraged in red when it fires.

Well, so add resolve in the height of the duration of the stun.... it doesnt matter. Thats not what the idea is about.. the idea is about: Fix the resolve bar so that people recognize what it does, it is predictable what it does, you can control what it does by playing good and you can SEE the effect of your immunity and know how long it lasts.

I believe there should be less Stuns and Roots and more grabbing / knocking / flying. Knockbacks and grabbing shouldn't even affect or be affected by the resolve bar, those arent CCs, and there are too many goals happening in huttballs where you just cant do anythign cause the enemy is immune to CCs forever. And the resolve bar needs a fix.... badly. It needs to be clearly visible what is happening to your and the enemies CC immunity, and currently it's just impossible to see what is going on in a crowd of people. I vote for: 1 stun -> 50% resolve (roots snares 34%) 2 stun -> 100% resolve -> AFTER stun 15 secs immune -> player becomes RED, huge visible bubble -> if its the ballcarrier we get a warning "Player XXX is enraged". After the 15 secs it all starts again at zero resolve. Oh and resolve stays very long, until death, it doesnt go away in like 3 secs, so that means you can collect it and save it for your ball run if you are good. That way it's PREDICTABLE what is happening and requires some tactic.

Another MMO has done exactly THAT, so don't say it like it is not possible. Better to remind them that it should be MORE than 4 votes.. lol.

That simply is not true. Even after players are full T3 and have their full equipment they are still leaving games. Thats the same argumentation like: "No judge, there was this money lieing around, I just had to take it." Don't deny responsibility for your actions, makes you look even worse.