I agree. I also think it feels like the devs got a "shopping list" of elements that they liked from the films and then used that as their basis for creating this game, before actually establishing what an MMO is supposed to accomplish. I'm not sure I agree with your description of how Hutta would look during a night time period. For instance, there could be ambient elements like coloured "fog" and steam being vented that could help with that. Various light sources could illuminate the environment around them, still giving off an air of pollution and filfth. Now, I don't know how you feel about it but "Kaon under siege" is set at night and to me that environment "feels" a bit polluted due to the colour scheme that has been used. Which I suppose is a little like Corellia too. The colour scheme used in Kaon resembles the same colour scheme used on Hutta during its present daytime period. As for Drommund Kaas, I do agree that a bright sky would be different. And perhaps that would set the wrong "mood". But would it have to be a bright sky? It could instead experience various degrees of "overcast" weather. Or even seem a like more like a "monsoon" climate, with thunderstorms and a bit of lightning. Those are just some examples off the top of my head. My point is that including the concept of day/night cycles doesn't, by it's very inclusion, automatically nullify all the hard work that the devs put into the planets and setting the scenes. In fact, I'd argue that dynamic elements such as these (and others) actually help to further emphasise the work. Creating a richer sense of being ON a world, and not just being on a movie set tour. Of course, that is my own opinion.

Funny thing is, one of the "new batch" of MMO's will apparently have these feature. "The Repopulation" is another MMO being made using the HeroEngine. Regardless of how one feels about that game, when one watches this video, there's a couple of things to note: I do believe that at the start of the video, the shadows are becoming elongated, possibly denoting a desired passage of time in the world (day/night cycles). . Watch what happens at the 1:00 mark.....swimming! And to me, the animation for it doesn't look too bad, considering that it's only in Alpha stage at the moment. Both features are built-in capabilities of the engine. I just think it's a shame that they weren't put to good use in SWTOR.

What counts for realism is subjective at best. However, at least WoW has some resemblance of day/night cycles. Which is something that TOR doesn't even try to have.

Really? Damion Schubert seems to think otherwise, see below for details... Stories from the movies, for instance Lukes story in Episode 4...... Actually, the light and weather conditions plays a BIG part in that scene I linked. Would you get the same effect if it was pissing down with rain? Or if it was bright blue sky with hardly a cloud to see, like it is on Tatooine in the game? I doubt you'd get the same effect. The sunset and other conditions were obviously not just randomly chosen. I do believe you are perhaps trying to put words in the devs mouths. Here's what Damion Schubert had to say prior to launch: Freedom is a true part of the magic of MMOs, and artificial constraints and mechanics can undermine the fiction and the sense that you are living in the virtual world – and when you have a brand as rich and textured as Star Wars™, the last thing you want to do is undermine it. Even worse, the depth and visual splendor of Star Wars™: The Old Republic would be completely lost if players couldn’t jump off the rails and just live in the space from time to time. I’ve long advocated that moderation is the way to go, and I believe on The Old Republic we are successfully travelling a middle path, a centrist path that takes the strengths of both: provide a directed and balanced game experience inside a lush, free-form Star Wars world. Of course, whether TOR actually achieved that goal is debatable. Nevertheless, the point is that the devs intentions were/are perhaps not exactly in line with what YOU thought they were/are.

Firstly, the HeroEngine apparently allows for dynamic changes to occur in the code whilst the game is still running. This has long since been touted as one of the big features of the HeroEngine by the creators of the engine. Now, there may be other considerations to take into account, which may be forcing Bioware to not be able to use that part of the tech. Now, in regards to what the OP said in their second point, I believe that AOC is moving to a "Single Shard" type of server setup. It's not a single server per say, it just looks like everyone is on the same "copy" of the game. Thus no more different "shards". Everyone can group with everyone else. No "shard" boundaries like there is in SWTOR. AOC is historically built somewhat like SWTOR: Each major exterior playfield in AOC is a separate zone. Just like each "planet" (playfield) is a separate zone in SWTOR. Each playfield is "disconnected" from the rest and thus there is no "seamless transition" between them. So players are required to load a playfield every time they enter it. And, like SWTOR, there can be multiple copies of each zone in operation dependant on the demand. Side note: I believe that Rift allows for dynamic transition between shards, without the need to involve the CS dept and request a "server transfer". Thus allowing players a greater degree of freedom to be able to find groups. It's not the same tech as what AOC is using, but some of the goals are the same nonetheless.

What makes you say that? Let me be clear, what I just posted is what CAN and HAS been done in games to create a difference between day and nigh, whilst maintaining an "atmosphere". Of course, such dynamic changes don't currently exist in TOR. But I believe they could.

Personally, I think it's cool to see when night time comes in games and you see light sources illuminating areas, whilst everything beyond the reach of the illumination is kept in shadows. Of course, visual indicators aren't the only things that help "set a scene". Like in the films, audio can play a big part too. A wolf howling in the distance, an owl hooting a little closer, perhaps there are sounds of people in a bar / tavern that the player passes by. These kind of things help to subtley change an environment whilst maintaining an atmosphere of a "world" that is being lived in. And of course, when the sun rises the elements used to set the scene change accordingly, whilst still maintaining that feeling of a "lived in world". At least, that's the sort of feeling I get

It's ironic though that for all it's faults, even WoW manages to include a day/night cycle. Albeit a "real time" one. But as we know, day/night cycles don't have to be real time.

I'm not sure of the specifics but one thing I do know is that (according to the "Dynamic Sky" article on the HeroEngine Wikia) the day/night cycle settings are part of an environment "scheme" for a zone. Which can either be set as "static" (thus having a static time of day for each zone, like SWTOR has now) or dynamic, with a user preferred duration that can be set for the day/night cycle. The question is of course, is whether (excuse the pun) or not the version of the HeroEngine used for SWTOR has the same capabilities. Given the devs previous answers (i.e. they never said it was impossible), we can only reach the logical conclusion that day/night cycles are indeed possible. Don't forget the terrible "blizzard" effect that's on Hoth too when you climb large mountains. That's awful. Indeed. It's ironic that their justification for a number of their design decisions (including using a "static" time of day) is to capture an iconic feeling, one that is perhaps reminiscent of the films. And yet the choice of "time of day" for Tatooine is such that the player never gets to experience an iconic moment similar to one of THE most infamous scenes in the films: The Tatooine Sunset scene.

So, allowing mobs to change due to day/night periods is unrealistic. But you don't have a problem with this suggestion, and commend it for "thinking outside of the box"? Seriously? ROFL. WoW. That's gunna make me chuckle all night at the pub. Thanks for that. Speaking of which....I'm outa here.

I suppose it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Though it may only add to the current feeling of the game splitting the community up even more.

So, let me get this straight, it's ok for ANY other MMO to implement day/night cycles where it's appropriate (i.e. on the ground), but not ok for SWTOR to have it. Purely on the grounds of "artistic choice". Daniel Erickson? Is that you?

Well, I suppose when some think that everyone who makes suggestions that they oppose are just being unrealistic, it makes you wonder as to how they think this MMO will survive on their subs alone. Lol. Well, is it that surprising, given the circumstances? After all, some people want what THEY want and nothing else. Which just so happens to coincide with how the game is now or what the devs are doing. And thus, seem to think that anything else is just being "unrealistic". Unfortunatley, as MMO's are losing their sophistication, single player games are gaining it. Ultimately, the lack of sophistication in MMO's may end up being their downfall, resulting in them being considered unworthy of investment in the future. All because of myopia and selfishness.

Funny thing is, whenever someone offers an alternative, you argue against that too. Which means, that you refuse to accept anything but the current norm. Remember what was said earlier about resistance to change? But I suppose so long as your needs are met, who cares about the rest eh? Which only gives proof to what I said earlier about myopia and selfishness playing a large part in the downfall of many MMO's.

I am not putting words in your mouth at all. In fact if you actually took time to read what I posted, you will see that I was actually trying to get you to confirm as to whether or not I fully understood your argument. Which you seem to confirm that I have, given what you've just posted. In short, you are ignoring the fact that keeping things "as is" is NOT actually changing anything. But instead, arguing how by NOT doing what others have done is somehow an example of "change". That is a VERY poor argument indeed. Anyone can see that. Just as it's hard for a scene to be an "iconic memory" of one of the greatest moments in the Star Wars films, if the scene cannot actually capture that moment accurately (i.e. actually HAVE a sunset on Tatooine). In short: As someone else pointed out, you are essentially just arguing for the sake of it.

Thank you for saying exactly what I was about to say.

Agreed. It's a bit odd to be against the enrichment of the game environments, purely on the basis that the game is an MMORPG. The opposing argument seems to be that such a change is bad purely on the basis that nothing else is being suggested as needing change as well. But the moment, any further change is mentioned in ADDITION (not part of) to what has been suggested, then the same individuals call it "unrealistic". It's this concrete to allow for ANY change to the current situation that could eventually cause the downfall of this game.

Another strawman argument.

Lol, wow you're really grasping at straws now. Expanding the focus of the discussion so that it suits your argument. So, let me get this straight. You're argument is, that by NOT implementing something that other MMO's have implemented, then that is in fact change in itself and is a sufficient argument for your case? Seriously? Yes, I can really see the logic of ommitting things from an MMO that people might want, PURELY on the grounds that others have done it, is a really sound business philosophy. I can see those years at Business School really paid off. Such logic reminds me of a scene from one of the "Airplane" movies:

If you think someone is wrong, why don't you provide evidence to prove it? I'm sure we'd all benefit from such additional knowledge. Just saying "You're wrong" doesn't in fact prove your argument in the slightest.

Lol. Editing your previous post and asking me to prove where you've been sarcastic calling me "Einstein"? Oh please. /sigh. It's obvious that you didn't actually understand what I originally posted in regards to different mobs etc at night, and just instead ASSUMED that's what I wanted. Here's what I ACTUALLY posted, just so you can give yourself a chance to fully understand the context: Secondly, the rest of your argument here is based on the premise that the same mobs WOULD HAVE to be seen at night, as there are seen in the day. Whereas, there is nothing stopping the devs from changing the mob type / composition / positioning of the mobs dependant on the time of day. Other, much older, MMO's managed to do that just fine. Of course, it doesn't have to be that way. But that has been done before nonetheless. It's a nice touch because it helps to add a further dynamic element to the feeling of the world. YOU are the one arguing against mobs doing the same thing, regardless of the "time of day" on the planet. I offered an example of how that could be avoided. But that isn't necessarily what I am actually wanting. You are arguing against a strawman.

Agreed. Apparently the current version of the HeroEngine supplied by Idea Fabrik has quite a few "environmental" settings for each zone that is created, including variable day/night cycles, cloud cover and fog. Whether the version used on SWTOR has the same level of settings, we don't know for sure.

Well for starters, the time of day being depicted would change if you're on a planet for several hours. Which is more than what happens now. You call it unrealistic, but fail to provide evidence as to why. The game engine supplied by Idea Fabrik CAN depict variable day/night cycles. And the SWTOR devs have never, ever said that it was impossible. So why is it unrealistic? And as for calling it "short sighted", I find that ironic given that you are one who is resist to the suggestions for change.

QFT. Time is supposed to pass, not be a constant "snapshot". Especially when you do things on some planets and you get mailed as part of the effect of helping / not helping someone. That denotes a passage of time. And this touches on some of the major problems that some feel is wrong with the game: The SWTOR playfields don't feel like "worlds" at all, just more like movie studio set tours. http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20100402_001 Freedom is a true part of the magic of MMOs, and artificial constraints and mechanics can undermine the fiction and the sense that you are living in the virtual world – and when you have a brand as rich and textured as Star Wars™, the last thing you want to do is undermine it. Even worse, the depth and visual splendor of Star Wars™: The Old Republic would be completely lost if players couldn’t jump off the rails and just live in the space from time to time. I’ve long advocated that moderation is the way to go, and I believe on The Old Republic we are successfully travelling a middle path, a centrist path that takes the strengths of both: provide a directed and balanced game experience inside a lush, free-form Star Wars world. - Damion Schubert, Bioware. To "live in the space" infers a passage of time. It's just a shame that, to me, the game never actually got to straddle that "mid point".

Some people will just argue in favour of the devs, just purely out of fear of change. Fear that change will make things worse, not better. Like you say, it's an aggressive resistance to allow for change. It's like I said earlier, selfishness and myopia are two things which I believe are the killers of MMO's in general.