what do you mean by flame sweep always worked? it does not applie cgc to all targets hit for sure. My comment about RS is in regard to a massive aoe rotation. My calculations were from launch of 3.0 under the assumption cgc would be applied to all (and the nature of double ticks with the right timing). I came to the conclusion that as of 5 targets you just use DFA and FT on cd. all other abilities are inferior dmg wise to flame sweep so you use it as much as heat allows. So all other abilities are either rapid shots or immolate and (untill patch) RS,as they basically cost 0 (or -3) as well if you consider the 0 cost flame sweep after their use. The 5 targets would likely be false since cgc only applies to 1 target, so I would need to take a second look there And btw DFA and scorching other targets removes most IMs in AOE stituations anyway. even on 2 targets and even more so with the increased heat consumption. unless the nerf to flaming fist makes it deal less dmg, than IM next patch that is (don't forget to factor in the likely bonus tick on cgc).

they could at least finally fix flame sweep/explosive surge to apply the dot to all targets, especially with the changes coming to pyro/assault next patch. this would give pyro at least a decent boost in heavy aoe compared to the crazy dps snipers/sorcs have right now by just spamming 1 long channel over and over. but then again they force us to replace RS with rapid shots, so a lot of it would just regain that lost dps only anyway.

the amount of health and general stat levels recommended highly depend on the level of content you are doing. Theese numbers assume that you also have a reasonable defensive stat pool as well (read: you didn't stack endurance above everything else) If you are just leveling you don't need to really worry about any gear requirements, as you can do about any quest (except group quests) even in pretty horrible gear anyways. Back in the day at lvl 50 I remember the suggested health levels to be around 24k - 28k for Asation hm and Denova nim (assasins were a bit higher back then I think). For 55 hm fps above 30k was usually enough if you knew what you are doing, otherwise more might be needed. For 55 sm ops 31-32k was enough in most cases for somewhat experienced players, other probably needed more. For Asation and Darvannis hm you probably should have had at least around 35-36k health and ~38k for nim For Fortress and Palace hm ~38k and at least 41k for Fortress nim and 43-44k for Palace nim.

I investigated this a little more today and had 0% miss/resist on malaphars hammer smash. I did not use EF however as I'm pretty sure it gives 35% resist chance as well. Both my logs of several different fights and the ingame values for force/tech resist support this. If your logs come from a PT that had a really high uptime of EF while tanking the boss (meaning he manages all add groups and only taunts occasionally to reset the stacks) 20-30% sounds perfectly plausible.

Parsec put the note wiederstanden (german translation for resisted) behind all 0 dmg instances of hammer smash. Not sure where the huge amount in your logs came from though. was this on your shadow or did you look at other tanks parses as well?

Unfortunately I only found 2 Malaphar kills in my logs without an extended search, but in both fights the misschance on hammer smash was ~5% so it might just be a low precision attack. Surprisingly explosive fuel didn't seem to have any effect on the amount of resists, although my sample size is far too small to make real conclusions. However that would contradict hammer smash beeing melee and EF granting resist chance as well if theese observations would be confirmed by more parses.

Just checked my Revan logs to be sure, but Torparse does not give a 100% clear answer. The attack in question is overloaded double saber strike and consists of multiple energy -> energy -> elemental hits. The other I/E attacks (heave, the tankvoids and the HK dot) are clearly force/tech. The energy hits in each strike seem to be melee dmg for sure, as I defended quite a lot of them. However I also resisted several of the elemental hits. Resist implies force/tech dmg, but they only occured when I had explosive fuel up. My guess is, that EF gives defense and resist chance and the elemental hit from the attack is acutally force/tech. I can look through some other fights and confirm the EF hypothesis with you on our TS server in the next few days if you like.

ever tried to play revanites as AP/Tactics ? then you know how much you suffer under very frequent swapps. your heat/ammo management gets completely blown out the window because you miss out on 5 heat every 6 sec for 75% of the fight. as pyro/plasma you can atleast replace incendiary missile with flame bursts/sweeps and try to get scorch to jump from target to target.

defense works against all meelee and range attacks, but not against force/tech attacks. shield works against all kinetik/energy dmg, but not against internal/elemental dmg. as there are only meelee/ranged attacks that are kinetik/energy dmg shield works against everything defendable, however not everything shieldable is also defendable. you can look at shield like a random armor component, as it works against exactly the same attacks as your armor does.

I would agree that somewhere around 54k to 56k there is some kind of magical breakpoint at which I started to die far less to the spikier hm bosses like torque, blaster and revan. (have no info on coratanni as my raid focuses on revan instead) My current adivce is to go full B Mods and 1-3 comm/random drop implants and earpieces as they have the best exchange rates for hp : defensive stats. Enhancements have the worst of all, so even exchange augments before them, if you want even more HP. on torque though you could argue that it's mostly avoidable dmg that kills you, but honestly I don't think it's possible to always avoid getting more than 1 hit from the fire. And even if you only get hit by it twice once it can already kill you if he hit's you with his big ~22k hit as you rarely ever are at 100% in this fight with all the stuff that's going on. On Blaster 50k -52k health requires your healers to be always on top of their game (especially in phase 2) as the grenade + knockback + beiing out of healrange for a short peroid of time (even if they run after you) is dangerous enough that a single mistake will kill you outside of a major cooldown (which have to be balanced between theese spikes, masters stacking laser and them beeing available again for the final burnphase). On revan mean mitigation means very little to begin with as ~80% of post mitigation dmg is I/E and therefore unavoidable. Especially during the HK phase dmg is really high as well and you have to try and live untill the next recovery phase (droids spawning). On top of that ~56k health give you at least a chance to survive an accidental exploit vulnerability while still figuering out optimal positioning and movement while learning the fight or at 3rd floor while trying to look at the anommalies or if your cotank dies in an unexpected moment.

sonic rebounder does not seem to be limited to single target, as it works against a lot of AOE stuff. not sure if they are actually coded as AOE right of the top of my head (if they trigger close and personal or not) but everyone looses their shield on the cross mechanic on underlurker, it works vs heave and the grenades in the revan encounter and probably many more significant mechanics in other fights that seem to be AOE. However it does not always block the entire attack as the underlurker usually does 3-4 instances of dmg to people and only one gets blocked.

in addition there might come up some new boss profile. Revan is ~80% I/E dmg post mitigation and therefore might be the first boss where hp is almost everything that matters itemizationwise.

well, they said that every diciplin gets exactly 2 of theese raid debuffs, so that's no advantage for the tank ACs. their lack of Raid cd has to be made up with other raid utility. I guess they value off tanking a lot higher than off healing.

Does overdrive make HO make you move at 175% or 145% moovementspeed? description first made me think it would add the 45% to the baseline 30% but in the stream there was barely any difference in speed visible over sprint. so it looked more like it's 45% instead of 30%. Besides PT Tanks seem to play exactly the same, with 2 differences: you can no longer chain 2 flamethrowers(firestorms) as the reset cooldown is now lower than the base cooldown, and you can spam your heart of flame bursts in your opener, as you get 2 for free now, saving you 1 heat cooldown for later usage

even though coordinated 6 taunts make it impossible to loose threat on anything, that's not really the situation you should rely on, as it's not reliable, especially in random groups or fps when you don't even know your co tank if you have one. on top of that many boss mechanics prohibit such excessive taunting. In general you can follow this sheme as a PT tank: 1) check if you have a concealement/deception in your group. if you do you have to use your first taunt right after their very first hit, as that usually is their stealth opener with insane crit chance. same applies to a sniper precasting orbital + ambush with a followthrough all within the first global of combat. theese openers can amount to up to over 10k dmg in the first global, so your taunt snaps a good amount of threat already to give you a nice headstart 2) start with jet charge (only if you have too, if it's possible to run to the boss for an imediate rocket punch, do so instead, soa, calphayus and the eyeless come to mind) or grapple,if you can't reach the boss like tyrans or council 3) pop explosive fuel and unload your shoulder cannon while you do your opening burst with rocket punch -> railshot -> taunt + flamethrower (even if it didn't proc yet) and use your heat blast as soon as it's ready (not durig flamethrower though). by the time you taunt people have generated at least 10k threat, so your taunt will do some work already, especially if you try to walk a few steps back just before you taunt to increase your distance for a short period of time. this will make it much more likely that you get the 30% threat buff instead of the 10% one that only applies outside of 4m of the center of the mobs hitbox (huge bosses like dresh have you at that range automatically, where a humanoid boss usually does not) 4) continue on the basis of this priority: heat blast flamethrower rocket punch flame burst and use your aoe taunt as the first is about to expire (only necessary if you missed an attack or have really good or better geared DPS in your group) you can instead wait with your aoe taunt until you loose threat if you have quick reactions. and taunt again with your single taunt as it comes off cooldown if possible. 5) as soon as you start to overheat use your heat cooldowns to get in more flame bursts instead of rapid shots or flame sweeps (the 2 stacks from jet charge only get used on aoe pulls) 6) go into the normal priority of heatblast flamethrower with proc rocket punch rail shot flamethrower without proc (if you blew all your heat cooldowns already you might not be able to use that every time to prevent heat issues) flame burst rapid shots as needed to maintain <40 heat on purely single target fights you can use death from above on cd as well and you should try to throw in a taunt every now and then if the fight mechanincs allow for it (they usually do, can't think of one that doesn't right). even if you pull 1600+ dps as a PT tank your threat only suffices versus the best DPS if they never get into the range where 110% of the tanks aggro suffice to pull threat (unless guarded or using threat drops) Note: tell your DPS to threat drop right as your aoe taunt is about to fall off Note: you need to put 1 point into the cd reduction for flamethrower over in the Ap tree to get a reasonable amount of flamethrowers without a proc, as otherwise the internal cooldown of flame engine will be up too early and you likely already got a new proc before the cooldown ran out. (will likely go away with 3.0 as that is probably an unintended behavior that very rarely also causes some trouble if you get flame engine during your flamethrower as then only the cd will reset but the next one won't be free and channled twice as fast

I think he was more referring to the complete removal of all RNG in DPS PT rotations (including 100% RS reset with a single attack), so using abilities on cd will likely be optimal for everything. unless you can't time all abilities in a way that they never conflict in cd or heat management does not allow it (unlikely). Only RNG remaining is in the tank tree, and even there it seems to be reduced immensely.

if your testing indicates my method is a DPS loss can you estimate how big it is? would be interested if it's worth for me to relearn tactics (probably wouldn't bother if it's <50 DPS as I'm on tank duty most of the time for the last 2 years and 3.0 likely changes things again anyways)

This Burn Phase he is talking about are usually the last few % of a boss, where you can spend your resources relentlessly with the goal to hit 90-100% heat (0-10 Ammo) at exactly the moment where the boss dies/combat ends. This way you can push your DPS a little bit, but it is quite a risky move because if you hit that no resource point a bit too early you are forced to use Rapid shots/Hammershot multiple times and in fact probably loose quite a lot of DPS. Same concept applies to Situations where you need to stop DPSing for several seconds because of fight mechanics (Operater IX shields, Olok Droid Phase, spinning Kell dragon, Brontes transition into the final Phase, Council transition into 2nd Phase, end of some Calphayus Phases (depending on Portal and DPS)) and therefore can use a bit more resources to use the resource regeneration in theese dowmtimes effectively (try to do it so you don't stand around with full resources for more than 1GCD but still aim to be at least at near full resources) all theese exact timings heavily depend on your Raid composition and RaidDPS, so it is only worth experimenting if you run with the same group regularly (or on the dummy/ while soloing content)

Ups, didn't see the other one burried on page 2 As the opening post redirected to both guides and I didn't see the other one I just assumed the title was not updated

As mentioned in the other thread I use my AP PT a bit different. I value my Flame Barrage (proc for RP/SS) very high to play for the most resources. This guide uses RP/SS every 6-7 GCDs, where I only use it when it's free and keep on fishing for a proc even when RP/SS is already off cooldown with FB/IP. On top of that I usually delay my Immolate/Fire Pulse by 1 GCD if Imolate and RP/SS are off cd at the same time and I already have a proc to preserve Immolates guaranteed proc. In General my Priorities are: Retractable Blade FT/PC DFA/MV RS RP/SS(only with proc) Immolate/Fire Pulse FB/IP I am however not 100% shure if delaying Immolate/Fire Pulse for the additional proc is indeed the best course of action. I did not test this with conclusive results yet, if that is even possible as the DPS difference seems to be rather small. As since denova nim I'm mostly on tank duty I didn't bother with theese minimal DPS variations. If I remember correctly Kerens PT simulator from before 2.0 showed the above priorities as optimal, but that might have changed since then and Immolate on cd could be better.

Hi Kwerty, I decided today to give your tactics/AP rotation a try, but I always had considerably lower DPS when trying to use SS/RP mostly on cd even if it didn't proc. My Results with this Gear Setup : http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character are however challenging Chilledoutdudes Parse, considering I made a few little mistakes along the way and even had to delay PC/FT once. On top of that I only used MV/DFA with SC and BF/EF because I blew my Ammo/Heat cds mindlessly in between and am sitting at 1,7% excess accuracy with the glitch atm. Besides slightly higher crit rating(456) my crit rates in this parse were a bit worse as well, so I'm pretty sure that both playstyles are about equal in DPS. Parse Screenshot: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-24943276/Unbenannt.jpg.html I'm approaching theese things more from a priority list standpoint, so most likely I just had trouble translating your blocksheme, as your stuff apparently works about equal. Maybe we can find a way to examine the differences in average and max DPS potentials as well as flexibility for both styles.

Wir stellen uns vor Die Gilde Brothers of Pain ist eine kleine loyale Gemeinschaft mit einem Kern, der nun schon 2 Jahre fest zusammenhält. Wir bestehen hauptsächlich aus Feierabendspielern und verstehen, dass RL-Angelegenheiten immer Vorrang haben. Trotzdem ist es unser Ziel auch den schwierigsten Content anzugehen und zu meistern. Brontes im Alptraummodus ist uns vor 2.8 mitsamt Titel leider knapp entkommen, aber wir haben vor unser Glück diesen Patch beim Schreckensrat weiter zu versuchen und den Timerun für Schreckensfestung unserer Sammlung an Erfolgen hinzuzufügen. Bisher haben wir den Timerun sowohl in Assation als auch Darvannis gemeistert. was wir von dir erwarten Du solltest deine Klasse voll und ganz beherrschen und kritikfähig sein. Außerdem wäre es schön, wenn dein Charakter ausreichend ausgerüstet ist (mind. 180er mit Setbonus). Bei unseren Raids geht es meist recht lustig zu, es kann aber auch mal vorkommen, dass sich jemand etwas im Ton vergreift. Das ist dann nicht böse gemeint, aber es wäre vorteilhaft, wenn du solche Sachen nicht zu ernst nimmst und Spaß verstehst. Unsere Raidzeiten unsere Kernraidtage sind Mi und Do von 20-23 Uhr dazu kommen je nach bedarf und lust/motivation noch So, Mo und/oder Di von 20-23 Uhr hinzu Aktuell suchen Wir 1-2 Tanks 2 DDs Kontaktmöglichkeiten Bewerber können sich direkt hier im Thread melden, auf unserer Homepage http://brothersofpain.host.allvatar.com/wrapper.php?bd1dd257&id=board eine Bewerbung verfassen, oder ingame Imato, Wi'sheek und Ya'sioro ansprechen.

like tac already mentioned, most/all specs have their main dmg abilities/procs on a set cooldown and delaying the use of theese abilities often times is a major dps loss. in order to get a real use out of alacrity besides taking so much, that your average GCD goes to 1.5 sec after delay/latency considerations, you have to meet the descrete breakpoints for alacrity from the above post. but even then you can't just scale the dmg increase with a factor, as your main dmg skills won't be available more often. instead you will use a filler ability or a basic attack in the extra GCD. as many specs get resource management boosts in their skill trees that are not affected by alacrity. It's quite likely at least 30% of the gained extra globals will be just basic attacks to manage your resources, some specs might go as far as 60-70%. fillers and basic attacks usually deal way less dmg per use than all the other abilities you have, so you need to average the dmg of that extra GCD and then your DPS increases by that dmg / breakpoint-defining-cooldown. As you have to sacrifice a lot of surge to meet theese breakpoints, your crit rating gets worse as a stat as well by a considerable margin, therefore you need to replace it with AP wich is another loss of DPS that alacrity has to make up first, although this should only be a minor issue. for gameplay reasons it is also crucial that you hit the breakpoints very precise, but most importantly you have to avoid overshooting them (unless you get near the next breakpoint, as you will have to delay 1 ability by a short moment otherwise. if you can monitor the cd of a skill this is not so much of an issue, but with internal cds, this can proove quite challenging, and increases your chance to make significant rotational mistakes by a crapton.

unless healing throughput is nerfed or overall burst/sustained dmg potential is buffed, there is no way tank survivability or even worse, their dmg reduction on the group can be buffed. to deal with hybrids or tanks running in DPS gear it doesn't help to give tanks anything that is not tied to their defensive stats anyway, as that would help the non full tanks as well, and arguably even more so, as the overall percentage of contribution to a tanks performance from theese stats would be reduced. I think the simplest way to go about this, is to make the defensive stats help tanks with their dmg/burst potential as well, to close the gap and possibly doing this with a talent high up on the tank trees to prevent hybrids to grab that as well. hybrids running tank gear would be fine with me though. to combat separation between PVE and PVP functionality, tank dmg could be rebalanced in PVE as well in a future expansion, so that they deal more dmg than ~40-45% of the dmg a DPS can do in PVE content. this might need some adjustments on threat generation though, if threat should still matter

we can certainly maintain aggro at the moment and I do so every week, but we still are way behind the other tanks in the first 2-3seconds, and are a lot more susceptible to bad rng on crits, misses and FE (if it procs too early or too late) becasue we have no huge lead from the start (even more true, if we have to jetcharge in). at some point with increasing gear levels this might become a problem, as I feel that DPS rises more than TPS every new tier of gear (might be my DPS improving their opener overtime though)